Bob Cole Division Quarterfinals: (3) Kingdom of Bohemia vs. (6) New York Bobcats

[jarek]

The Kingdom Of Bohemia

Coach: Bob Johnson
Captain: Valeri Vasiliev
Alternates: Lanny McDonald, Art Ross

Alexander Yakushev - Elmer Lach - Guy Lafleur
Paul Kariya - Joe Primeau - Lanny McDonald
Nick Metz - Phil Watson - Claude Provost
Gaye Stewart - Vladimir Shadrin - Jack Darragh

Art Ross - Valeri Vasiliev
Babe Siebert - Red Horner
Gary Bergman - Jiri Bubla

Jacques Plante
Percy Leseur

Spares: Harry Westwick, Alex Tanguay, Barney Stanley, Vasili Pervukhin

PP1:
Alexander Yakushev - Elmer Lach - Guy Lafleur
Art Ross - Paul Kariya

PP2:
Gaye Stewart - Joe Primeau - Lanny McDonald
Babe Siebert - Jiri Bubla

PK1:
Nick Metz - Vladimir Shadrin
Babe Siebert - Valeri Vasiliev

PK2:
Joe Primeau - Claude Provost
Gary Bergman - Red Horner

PK3:
Elmer Lach - Phil Watson



vs.



New York Bobcats

Coach: Darryl Sutter

Doug Bentley-Joe Sakic-Cam Neely
Kevin Stevens-Vladimir Petrov-Helmuts Balderis
Esa Tikkanen-Phil Goyette-jean pronovost
Dave Trottier-Mike Peca-Wilf Paiement

Borje Salming-Butch Bouchard
Lionel Hitchman-Eric Desjardins
Flash Hollett-Ted Green

Patrick Roy
Dave Kerr

Extras: Carol Vadnais, Pat Verbeek, Dennis Hull, Dollard St Laurent

Special Teams:

PP 1: Doug Bentley, Joe Sakic, Cam Neely, Borje Salming, Flash Hollett
PP 2: Kevin Stevens, Vladimir Petrov, Helmut Balderis, Eric Desjardins, Ted Green
PK 1: Dave Trottier, mike Peca, Lionel Hitchman, Butch Bouchard
Pk 2: Esa Tikkanen, Phil Goyette, Borhe Salming, Eric Desjardins

Captains: Joe Sakic
Alternates: Butch Bouchard, Borje Salming​

Click to read more...

 

[tony d]

Good luck Johnny. Will be back tonight with some discussion on the forward groups. For th 2nd round in a row Roy gets an all time great goalie for his opponent.

 

[tony d]

Time for some debate:

Forward Line 1:

Yakushev/Lach/Lafleur vs. Bentley/Sakic/Neely

Similarily built lines if you ask me. Neely offers a good physical game, do any of the forwards on Bohemia's Line 1 offer that? Then again Lach offers a good defensive game, don't know if any of my guys are noted defensive players. Bentley and Lafleur are a wash and could be the difference here. Yakushev's good too.

Advantage: Slight 1 to Bohemia

Forward Line 2:

Kariya/Primeau/Mcdonald vs. Stevens/Petrov/Balderis

Your 2nd line is a decent 1. Kariya's small stature could hurt a bit especially vs. Stevens. What about goal scoring on this line? Kariya and Primeau are more like playmakers to me than they are goal scorers. For my line I have Balderis and in some cases Stevens to score goals for my 2nd line.

Advantage: New York

Forward Line 3:

Nick Metz/Phil Watson/Claude Provost vs. Esa Tikkanen/Phil Goyette/Jean Pronovost

I think you went classic with your 3rd line, me I went for classic but slight 2 way as well. In any case you did well with your 3rd line. I like my 3rd line though, if we're matching different lines then I really would look forward to Tikkanen/Lafleur and Tikkanen/Kariya. I've always been a fan of Metz though so you did well here. I think the checking lines here are to close to call. Depends on which way the game goes.

Advantage: Thisclose but New York

Forward Line 4:

Gaye Stewart/Vladimir Shadrin/Jack Darragh vs. Dave Trottier/Mike Peca/Wilf Paiement

The Shadrin/Peca matchup should be an interesting 1, both guys are much more defensively than offensively. Stewart and Paiement should be a close battle among the scorers of their lines who can also mix it up physically. Don't know much about Darragh's defensive game but he's good offensively. Trottier's offers a good 2 way game, that could be the difference for these lines.

Advtanage: New York

I'll be back tomorrow with the defensive thoughts, I look forward to a rebuttal from Johnny Engine.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

I think I may be misinterpreting this...what does "Bentley and Lafleur are a wash" mean?

 

[Johnny Engine]

I gotta say, I find a lot to disagree with here.

Time for some debate:

Forward Line 1:

Yakushev/Lach/Lafleur vs. Bentley/Sakic/Neely

Similarily built lines if you ask me. Neely offers a good physical game, do any of the forwards on Bohemia's Line 1 offer that? Then again Lach offers a good defensive game, don't know if any of my guys are noted defensive players. Bentley and Lafleur are a wash and could be the difference here. Yakushev's good too.

Advantage: Slight 1 to Bohemia

You've got to mean that Sakic and Lafleur are a wash, right? I respectfully disagree, as I have Lafleur's dynamic game a small step ahead of Sakic's quieter style, but at least that wouldn't be a totally ridiculous thing to say. The physical presence on my first line comes from Yakushev, a huge physical specimen who's hard to stop when he goes to the net. He won't dish it out like Neely, but that's not what my speedsters need! You're right that the lines are have one big winger with two smaller linemates, but I think my cohesiveness - Lafleur uses his speed and balanced offensive game to control the play on the rush, while Yakushev powers his way up the opposite wing for a shot on net, and Lach takes care of the details - and Lafleur's game-breaking ability, give Bohemia the nod.

BTW: Doug Bentley and Joe Sakic are both pretty good defensively. Neely wouldn't be someone you'd look to for that.

Forward Line 2:

Kariya/Primeau/Mcdonald vs. Stevens/Petrov/Balderis

Your 2nd line is a decent 1. Kariya's small stature could hurt a bit especially vs. Stevens. What about goal scoring on this line? Kariya and Primeau are more like playmakers to me than they are goal scorers. For my line I have Balderis and in some cases Stevens to score goals for my 2nd line.

Advantage: New York

Sorry, but Stevens is a 4th liner in a 26 team ATD. Comparing the shoot-first physical guys on our line, Stevens has goal-scoring finishes of 2,8, and then falls off a cliff. McDonald has 2,4,5,6, a nicely fleshed out career, as well as reasonable two-way play, and the speed to play with the high-octane Bohemia game plan. Continuing to compare guys in the same role, Petrov has a bit of an edge on Primeau, but Kariya is miles ahead of Balderis (in fact, he wouldn't look out of place on a 1st line). Also, Kariya, like Lafleur, is a balanced threat - he'll pass more than most wingers, but this is a guy who scored 50 goals on a team with 28 games of Teemu Sellanne and nothing else! With clear advantages on both wings, and a small deficit at centre, I don't see how you can't give this to Bohemia.

Forward Line 3:

Nick Metz/Phil Watson/Claude Provost vs. Esa Tikkanen/Phil Goyette/Jean Pronovost

I think you went classic with your 3rd line, me I went for classic but slight 2 way as well. In any case you did well with your 3rd line. I like my 3rd line though, if we're matching different lines then I really would look forward to Tikkanen/Lafleur and Tikkanen/Kariya. I've always been a fan of Metz though so you did well here. I think the checking lines here are to close to call. Depends on which way the game goes.

Advantage: Thisclose but New York

Again, I think I have a (one) big advantage on the wings and similar centres. Provost and Pronovost aren't really that far apart offensively, but Provost has a huge edge defensively. Neither Metz or Tikkanen should be big factors offensively, but we know what they bring. Both lines have a nasty agitator in Tikk and Watson. Provost is the difference here.

Forward Line 4:

Gaye Stewart/Vladimir Shadrin/Jack Darragh vs. Dave Trottier/Mike Peca/Wilf Paiement

The Shadrin/Peca matchup should be an interesting 1, both guys are much more defensively than offensively. Stewart and Paiement should be a close battle among the scorers of their lines who can also mix it up physically. Don't know much about Darragh's defensive game but he's good offensively. Trottier's offers a good 2 way game, that could be the difference for these lines.

Advtanage: New York

Here are two lines that are a little more difficult to compare. Your 4th line is very defensive - mine is built in the same image as my top two, with a responsible "professor" type centering a pair of speedy scorers. I think both lines do more or less what they're supposed to do. I'd call it a draw, though I certainly have the more talented group.

So anyway, I think the big difference is the middle six. Primeau is pedestrian in his role on my team, but Tony has no standout offensive player that's anything like Kariya. In fact, my setup (3 scoring lines, 1 dedicated checking line) is ideal for facing New York's team. Provost & co will see a lot of Sakic, and I've got the offensive horses to win any other matchup.

 

[tony d]

Don't know what I was thinking there with Bentley and Lafleur being a wash, consider that a typo on my part, of course Lafleur is the better player.

 

[tony d]

Let's try this again, this time with the defense.

Defense Pairing 1:

Art Ross/Valeri Vasilev vs. Borje Salming/Butch Bouchard

Similar built defenses. Ross and Salming will provide the offense while Vasilev and Bouchard provide the physical defensive game. I think Salming and Vasilev are the 2 best defenseman here. I'm unaware of any extra offense that Vasilev brings but he brings a good defensive game. Ross and Bouchard are 3/4 here (Though maybe not in that order). I think that the main thing here will hinge on who wins the battle between Salming and Vasilev.

Advantage: Slight 1 to new York

Defense Pairing 2:

Babe Seibert/Red Horner vs. Lionel Hitchman/Eric Desjardins

Reading up on Seibert he seems like a good 1 and he might be 1 of the best #3 guys in this. in fact if he's matched up vs. Eric Desjardins then you have 2 of the best 2nd pairing guys in the league going at it this round. Red Horner was a pick of mine a few yrs. ago, very physical guy who's not going to back down from anyone. I think this should be a good match up here between 2 good #2 pairings.

Advantage: Bohemia

Defense Pairing 3:

Gary Bergman/Jiri Bubla vs. Flash Hollett/ Ted Green

I think this should be a close match as well. Bergman and Hollett look like the offense catalysts for the pairings while Bubla and Green will provide the defense/physical game. To me Hollett is the better defenseman of the 4 here but Bergman's someone who gets high praise around here. Bubla seems to be better than Green offensively but will Green's physical game be better than Bubla's? That could be the difference here.

Advantage: Slight to New York

Those are my thoughts on the defense, I'll debate the goalies, coaching and special teams tomorrow. Again accept my apologies for saying Bentley and Lafleur was a wash, that was a typo on my part.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Let's try this again, this time with the defense.

Defense Pairing 1:

Art Ross/Valeri Vasilev vs. Borje Salming/Butch Bouchard

Similar built defenses. Ross and Salming will provide the offense while Vasilev and Bouchard provide the physical defensive game. I think Salming and Vasilev are the 2 best defenseman here. I'm unaware of any extra offense that Vasilev brings but he brings a good defensive game. Ross and Bouchard are 3/4 here (Though maybe not in that order). I think that the main thing here will hinge on who wins the battle between Salming and Vasilev.

Advantage: Slight 1 to new York

The big difference here is that you've got a #2 in Bouchard on this pairing, and I have a (pretty high-end) #3 in Ross. My #2 - Babe Siebert - anchors Bohemia's second pairing, so naturally the comparison will be a little unbalanced. You have the 1st pairing advantage, and I have the 2nd pairing advantage, and that's that.
FYI, Vasiliev should be smart and competent moving the puck, but he's got a muffin from the point, which is why he won't put up big numbers, and won't be anywhere near a PP unit. That's fine. Both of us have low-end #1Ds, but Salming is the more rounded of the two.

I'm going to toss a bomb here: can Bouchard handle the speed in my top 6? He should be reasonably well matched with Yakushev, who can get from point A to point B fast enough, but won't dance around anyone, but what happens if he gets in a 1-on-1 situation with Kariya, or Lafleur? Bouchard's a good piece on your team, but this could be something Bohemia exploits.

Defense Pairing 2:

Babe Seibert/Red Horner vs. Lionel Hitchman/Eric Desjardins

Reading up on Seibert he seems like a good 1 and he might be 1 of the best #3 guys in this. in fact if he's matched up vs. Eric Desjardins then you have 2 of the best 2nd pairing guys in the league going at it this round. Red Horner was a pick of mine a few yrs. ago, very physical guy who's not going to back down from anyone. I think this should be a good match up here between 2 good #2 pairings.

Advantage: Bohemia

Again, Siebert is either one of the best #3s, or a #2 playing spread out minutes. Same trade off I mentioned earlier. No issue here.

Defense Pairing 3:

Gary Bergman/Jiri Bubla vs. Flash Hollett/ Ted Green

I think this should be a close match as well. Bergman and Hollett look like the offense catalysts for the pairings while Bubla and Green will provide the defense/physical game. To me Hollett is the better defenseman of the 4 here but Bergman's someone who gets high praise around here. Bubla seems to be better than Green offensively but will Green's physical game be better than Bubla's? That could be the difference here.

Advantage: Slight to New York

Bubla's better offensively than Bergman.
These two pairings are built quite differently. I have a pair of multi-use defensemen who can make an outlet pass, play smart defense, throw their weight around a bit, and jump up into the play in rare situations. You have an old school toughie next to a 4th forward. I think that suits my game plan a little better.
Bergman and Bubla will probably see your checking lines most. If their toughest assignments are Jean Pronovost and Wilf Paiement, that's a recipe for safe, low-event hockey.
Hollett, on the other hand, could get burned against the Stewart-Shadrin-Darragh line. He's not Phil Housley (if only because we have a detailed video record of Housley's thundering incompetence in his own end), but comparing his AST record against his offense, along with a conspicuous lack of quotes, suggests that he's on the bottom rung of defensive D-men here.

Those are my thoughts on the defense, I'll debate the goalies, coaching and special teams tomorrow. Again accept my apologies for saying Bentley and Lafleur was a wash, that was a typo on my part.

I assumed "wash" means something different on the Burin. Like "flakehouse", or maybe "rum runners from France".

 

[Johnny Engine]

Just to go back to the idea that I have a "traditional" 3rd line, while Tony has an extra offensive element - that's not right at all. Rather than make conjecture about that, I'll use some numbers.

Here are all the 3rd liners, ranked by 7-year VsX*

Phil Watson: 76.57
Phil Goyette: 75.14
Claude Provost: 66.28
Jean Pronovost: 65.14
Esa Tikkanen: 55.43
Nick Metz: 51.57

Watson and Goyette have similar scores, as do Provost and Pronovost, though Bohemia's forwards both do better. Tikkanen is about 5 percentage points higher than Metz, but neither are high enough to be an offensive factor at the ATD level anyway.

*I used a 7 year standard because Goyette and Provost's careers straddle the cut off between pre and post-expansion. This is to Tony's advantage, as using Tikkanen and Pronovosts 10-year VsX would tack on a long tail of mediocre seasons that don't help them.

But wait, this is the playoffs, right? Tikkanen, in particular, has a reputation for raising his offensive game in the postseason. (I'm not sure how to put this in a table - mods?)

PPG PPPG % change
Metz 0.48 0.51 +6%
Tikkanen 0.72 0.71 -1%
Watson 0.69 0.65 -6%
Provost 0.59 0.5 -18%
Pronovost 0.78 0.57 -36%
Goyette 0.72 0.49 -46%

Tikkanen does a good job maintaining his regular season pace, but Metz actually scores a little more. Provost and Watson take predictable dives - it's harder to score in the playoffs - but Pronovost and Goyette struggle to keep up with their normal standard.

Conclusion: At worst, Bohemia's 3rd line is equal to New York's offensively. That, combined with Provosts large edge in defense at RW (I'm willing to call Metz/Tikkanen and Watson/Goyette a wash without getting deep into it), gives Bohemia this matchup decisively.

 

[tony d]

Time to debate the goalies, special teams and coaching.

Goalies:

Roy/Kerr vs. Plante/Leseur

2 of the best goalies of all time going at it here. Forget the backups as they probably see no action here. Roy and Plante is going to be quite a treat to watch. Fun fact I'm in another draft on another board and I got Plante as my goalie. In any event both goalies are going to be lights out for their teams. Will be a close battle but Roy is in the top 2 all time and Plante is close in the top 5.

Advantage: New York

Coaching:

Darryl Sutter vs. Bob Johnson

No offense but I've never been a fan of Johnson as coach in this and he looks worse in a 26 team ATD. Sutter's still low level at 26 teams but he's still coaching and keeps getting better (The Kings are looking good again this year). Really don't think coaching will make much of a difference in this series however.

Advantage: New York

Special Teams:

Really nothing to say here. Metz and Peca look to be the stars of each team's penalty kill. I like Kariya on the point on your power play. I see that Bubla is on your power play ahead of Bergman, I always thought Bergman to be better offensively. This battle is to close to call but will depend on which team gets most out of their talent.

Advantage: To close to call.

Final Thoughts:

Should be a good series and it'll be a shame that 2 of the top 5 goalies all time will be out early but them's the breaks. i wish you good luck and many thanks for the debate.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Time to debate the goalies, special teams and coaching.

Goalies:

Roy/Kerr vs. Plante/Leseur

2 of the best goalies of all time going at it here. Forget the backups as they probably see no action here. Roy and Plante is going to be quite a treat to watch. Fun fact I'm in another draft on another board and I got Plante as my goalie. In any event both goalies are going to be lights out for their teams. Will be a close battle but Roy is in the top 2 all time and Plante is close in the top 5.

Advantage: New York

I waver back and forth between these two goalies for #s 1 and 2 of all time, and I wouldn't call this an advantage at all, let alone a clear one. Thing is, with the offensive gap between the two teams, Roy is going to have to steal you the series, and Plante is going to have to lose it. Plante won't lose Bohemia the series.
Another thing to keep in mind: the weakest aspects of both our teams is our top-end defensemen. Vasiliev and Salming are low-end #1s. Siebert and Bouchard are pedestrian #2s. But Bohemia has a goaltender with an elite ability to communicate with his partners, and move the puck up on dump ins. Brodeur would be one of the only other goalies in this league. That can add that dimension. A leg up in moving the puck is an important thing to have in this series, and it makes Plante more valuable.

Coaching:

Darryl Sutter vs. Bob Johnson

No offense but I've never been a fan of Johnson as coach in this and he looks worse in a 26 team ATD. Sutter's still low level at 26 teams but he's still coaching and keeps getting better (The Kings are looking good again this year). Really don't think coaching will make much of a difference in this series however.

Advantage: New York

You're going to have to elaborate on how this would be an advantage. Both coaches fit the mold the team is built on - you've got a surplus of gritty guys who can play hard-nosed Sutter hockey, and I have superior talent who need a players coach like Badger Bob. Can you name a reason why Johnson might hold my team back in any way? I can't.

Special Teams:

Really nothing to say here. Metz and Peca look to be the stars of each team's penalty kill. I like Kariya on the point on your power play. I see that Bubla is on your power play ahead of Bergman, I always thought Bergman to be better offensively. This battle is to close to call but will depend on which team gets most out of their talent.

Advantage: To close to call.

I'd expand that to say that Provost, Tikkanen, Bouchard and Vasiliev are all big parts of our respective PKs. As for Bubla, read the attached bio. Take a look at his Czech league numbers. He's a legit pointman, and I'd take him over Bergman, but also Green as well. The powerplay units are more equal than you would think, given New York's issues with secondary scoring - I've loaded my group with 7 forwards, while you have a somewhat unique-to-this-series asset in Flash Hollett. I'm still not a fan of Kevin Stevens on the second unit - even Gaye Stewart is a better goal scorer (he could easily get a look as a weak second liner if a GM gave him a chance), but second unit's are naturally less important.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Discussion seems to have died down, but as a closer, I'll say that speed, secondary scoring and depth on the wing will carry the day for Bohemia.

The top players and goaltending are as evenly matched as they possibly could be, but New York doesn't have an answer to the Kariya and Darragh lines.

No sandbag here, this is nothing I haven't touched on in my responses. Goodnight, and I'll be voting on the playoff series in the morning!

 

[seventieslord]

Bohemia wins in 5 games. It took OT to win one of them and New York played well.

 

[tony d]

Congrats Bohemia on a hard fought and well argued series.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

This was the toughest series for me to decide.

But then, I seem to have liked the Bobcats more than most GMs did. I just thought the Bobcats were set up to be a very tough team to score on.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

I had the Bobcats a lot higher than 6th in that division. They had their own issues, but I really liked the balance in the top four playing in front of Roy Tony put together. Each of his top two line's had a very dangerous duo as well with Bentley - Sakic and Petrov - Balderis (neither spectacular, but both pretty solid).

Tough out Tony I thought you deserved a better showing this time around.