Bob Cole Division Final - Guelph Platers vs Belfast Giants

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Guelph Platers
1986 Memorial Cup Champions

Home Rink: Guelph Memorial Gardens (1948)
GM: BraveCanadian

Coaches: Al Arbour
Captain: Syl Apps
Alternates: Ron Francis, Zdeno Chara

Michel Goulet - Syl Apps - Mark Recchi
Kevin Stevens - Ron Francis - Zigmund Palffy
Dave Balon - Joel Otto - Ed Westfall
Bob Davidson - Ryan Getzlaf - Rick Vaive

Zdeno Chara - Bobby Orr
Duncan Keith - Ted Green
Rod Seiling - Pat Egan

Johnny Bower
Roberto Luongo


Reserves

D Al Arbour - C Jason Spezza - RW Andy Hebenton - RW/LW Al MacAdam


Powerplay:
PP1: Michel Goulet - Syl Apps - Mark Recchi - Pat Egan - Bobby Orr

PP2: Kevin Stevens - Ron Francis - Zigmund Palffy - Duncan Keith - Zdeno Chara / Bobby Orr


Penalty Kill:
PK1: Joel Otto - Ed Westfall - Zdeno Chara - Bobby Orr

PK2: Ron Francis - Bob Davidson - Duncan Keith - Rod Seiling

VS

Belfast Giants

General Manager: Velociraptor
Home Venue: Odyssey Arena

Head Coach: Fred Shero
Captain: Bobby Clarke
Assistant Captains: Shane Doan, Derian Hatcher

ROSTER

Doug Bentley - Bobby Clarke - Teemu Selanne
Fred "Bun" Cook - Eric Lindros - Ken Hodge
Kirk Muller - Don McKenney - Shane Doan
Gregg Sheppard - Steven Stamkos - Anders Hedberg

Paul Coffey - Art Coulter
Derian Hatcher - Jim Neilson
Zinetula Bilyaletdinov - Andrei Markov

Cecil "Tiny" Thompson
Curtis Joseph

Spares:
Bob Armstrong, D
Neal Broten, C
Pit Martin, C/RW
Alex Tanguay, LW

Powerplay:

PP1: Eric Lindros - Bobby Clarke - Teemu Selanne
Doug Bentley - Paul Coffey

PP2: Bun Cook - Steven Stamkos - Ken Hodge
Andrei Markov - Art Coulter

Penalty Kill:

PK1: Bobby Clarke - Gregg Sheppard
Derian Hatcher - Art Coulter

PK2: Don McKenney - Kirk Muller
Zinetula Bilyaletdinov - Jim Neilson​

Click to read more...

 

[Velociraptor]

Best of luck, BC. Really looking forward to this team as I am a pretty big fan of your team.

Will start my analysis tomorrow or the next day.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Best of luck, BC. Really looking forward to this team as I am a pretty big fan of your team.

Will start my analysis tomorrow or the next day.

Looking forward to it. Should be interesting with Coffey and Orr in the same series.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Just going to get this kicked off with a few thoughts:

Coaching

Both teams are very well coached. Love both of these coaches.

A very slight edge to us for that if anything at all.


Top 6

I think that the Top 6 is very close offensively but I give a nod to Belfast for a couple of reasons:

Belfasts 1st line is slightly better than ours offensively -- primarily because Goulet had a nice peak, especially for goalscoring, but lacks longevity. Otherwise it is pretty close.

Belfast's first line is also better defensively by featuring Clarke. My only concern is that outside Clarke's determination and dirty play, they don't have a lot of sandpaper. Goulet and Recchi give our first line good grit and boardwork for a scoring line. Bentley was small and Selanne is not physical at all. No bodyguard for Clarke's possible antics here.

I have the second lines as practically a wash offensively if we assume Lindros misses his average amount of time. This time a very slight edge on the left side for Belfast due to Stevens very short peak.

Belfast's second line is imposing physically for sure. On our second line, Stevens was a bull during his prime but Francis, although big, wasn't overly physical, and Palffy hardly at all. Defensively I think they are very close too. Francis is easily the best defensive player of these two lines but he has to be with his wingers (mostly Stevens) so it equals out in the end. Lindros will be seeing a good bit of the Joel Otto line, though. The effectiveness of these lines is about equal as far as production but Belfast gets extra marks for their size and physicality.


Bottom 6

As I said in the assassinations I find it difficult to rank Belfast's third line. In my mind they are a bit of a mix of everything but not great at anything.

Our third line is more specialized as a strong checking line. Obviously ours is better defensively and their line is better offensively.

On fourth lines Belfast suffers from the same issue I have with my LWs on the top lines: Stamkos' lack of longevity (and his injury) means that, although his peak is insane, his VsX at this point for 7 years is only 68.8. Getzlaf meanwhile is 78.4. Gregg Sheppard and Davidson are there more for their defensive abilities but Sheppard can actually pot some goals too. Vaive > his contemporary Hedberg.

In my mind our fourth line has the edge.


Defense

Everyone probably knows that I often stand up for Coffey. Outside of the lack of a more pure goal scoring center in your top lines, I think he has a strong offensive team to work with. However, this is your worst nightmare matchup: The unique attributes that are usually Paul Coffey's strength are all matched or exceeded by Bobby Orr and then Orr then adds in tremendous all around ability on top.

Given how close our forward lines appear to be overall, once again the Chara - Orr backbone of our team is our big advantage.

I also like Keith - Green over Hatcher - Nielsen. I think Nielsen is slightly better but Green is very close.

However, despite the obvious differences in their playing styles, I think Keith is better than Hatcher. They were very close when drafted but since that time Keith has added a gold medal as one of Canada's top defensemen. It will be even moreso once Monday rolls around and he is almost certainly a Norris finalist again.

#1 Orr > Coffey
#2 Chara > Coulter
#3 Keith > Hatcher
#4 Green < Nielsen

I think our third pairings are pretty similar.


Goaltending

Close. Bower was 19 in the goaltender project and Thompson was 21.


Final Thoughts

How I see it:

This is going to be a very tough series. Belfast has an edge in the Top 6 forwards and we have a big edge in the Top 4 defense.


Coaching: Guelph, extremely close.

1st Lines: Offensively close but overall Belfast both ways.
2nd Lines: Overall close imo - Belfast very big & physical.
3rd Lines: Belfast Offensively. Guelph Defensively. I like Otto against Lindros if we can get it.
4th Lines: Guelph.

1st Pairing: Guelph all day.
2nd Pairing: Very close but Guelph, imo.
3rd Pairing: Close.

Goaltending: Very close.

How lucky am I to have a bunch of big centers (especially Otto) and a defenseman like Chara to play against a team with Lindros and the second line he is on? Whew.

 

[Velociraptor]

Will add my thoughts at some point tomorrow.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Just going to add in that Chara & Keith are now officially a finalist for the Norris this year.

Source

Therefore Keith's Norris summary: 1, 3+, 6, 6, 9, 11.

Chara now has a Norris summary: 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3+, 4, 5, 7, 8. Chara - Orr is just ridiculously good.

I made out like a bandit with my active players (Getzlaf too) this year.


Just to highlight:

#1 D

Orr vs Coffey Norris:
O: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3
C: 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 5, 5, 7, 9

Orr vs Coffey Hart:
O: 1, 1, 1, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 6
C: 3, 4, 10, 14

#2 D

Chara vs Coulter Norris:
Ch: 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3+, 4, 5, 7, 8.
Co: N/A Career ended before introduction

Chara vs Coulter Post Season All Stars:
Ch: 2 x 1st Team, 4 x 2nd Team, +1 in 2013-2014.
Co: 4 x 2nd Team


#3D

Keith vs. Hatcher Norris:
K: 1, 3+ ,6, 6, 9, 11.
H: 3, 7, 13, 16, 17


#4D
Green vs. Neilson Norris:
G: 3, 7, 9, 13
N: 4, 5, 8


#5/#6

Egan vs. Markov:
Egan: 2nd Team All Star (Norris N/A - Career ended before introduction)
Markov: 6, 6 in All Star (Also 6, 6 Norris)

Seiling vs. Bilyaletdinov
Seiling: 7, 7, 10 Norris
Bilyaletdinov: N/A - Soviet player.

Seiling: 7, 8, 10 All Star
Bilyaletdinov: N/A - Soviet player.

(Bilyaletdinov was a six-time IIHF World Championship gold medalist for the Soviet Union. He also won the Olympic gold medal in Sarajevo in 1984 and was part of the Soviet squad which captured the 1981 Canada Cup. Bilyaletdinov also played in the 1976 and 1984 Canada Cups.)

 

[Velociraptor]

Bentley was a decent backchecker which is one of his more valuable assets on the first line, so when Coffey gets caught in the offensive zone, Doug can wheel back on D with his speed and eliminate scoring chances.

Our four units were built to be able to handle checking lines, Otto/Lindros will be an interesting matchup.

While the third line is not a traditional checking line, it features three defensively responsible players that can check, namely the wingers in Muller and Doan. McKenney was an adept defensive player, but he was very clean and did not rely on physicality. They will be a solid positional unit that can create chances while being able to eliminate solid chances in the other end.

I have to ask, why is it a nightmare matchup for Coffey? Orr is better at everything yes, and employs the exact same playstyle as Coffey, but it won't make much of a difference in him doing his job. Coffey will still be relied upon to act as the fourth forward and run the offense with the first two lines, which feature strong back-checkers to help neutralize odd-man chances in the event they happen. With a not overly fast forward corps, I am not too worried about the amount of odd-man rushes that will ensue in our own end.

-----------------------

1st Lines: Offensively close but overall Belfast both ways.
2nd Lines: Overall close imo - Belfast very big & physical.

Having a top-6 advantage on both lines is a pretty big deal in a series like this, I know there is the pairing of death with Orr and Chara, but two strong, physical units with speed and tenacity will be firing at all cylinders and could potentially make problems for the Platers' bottom-four defensemen.

3rd Lines: Belfast Offensively. Guelph Defensively. I like Otto against Lindros if we can get it.

I would imagine this is your plan, but who covers Clarke? Yes Francis is a defensive stalwart, but do you really believe he will be able to successfully cover him, I'd be a little more worried on containing the most dangerous offensive player on the team as it appears that he will have his work cut out for him.

2nd Pairing: Very close but Guelph, imo.

Now I'm not entirely sure about this, Keith - Green is certainly not a bad pairing, Keith is an all-around effective defenseman as we can see, but I certainly do not think he has achieved a career respect, yet to be recognized as a solid #3 in the ATD. Derian Hatcher is a physically dominant stay-at-home defenseman who is recognized as a player who could 'play in any era effectively' given his size and playstyle. I think given what Hatcher brings in that regard makes him more valuable than Keith. Green is physical, and had one very strong year but consistency was not a theme in his career. I think the gap you are insinuating between him and Neilson is a little further off. I do believe the Giants hold an advantage IMO.

Why Belfast should win in a 7-game series.
- More offensive-oriented forward corps aided by Coffey on the back-end.
- Physically fluent throughout lineup that is built to match up with checking units such as Balon-Otto-Westfall.
- Strong post-season goaltender playing behind responsible set of defensive defensemen minus Coffey, helped by the strong presence of quick, back-checking forwards.
- Lineup that fits into Fred Shero's game plan with physical forwards and surplus of offensive weapons.
- Third line that can matchup with any of Platers' lines.
- Approach to shutting down the best player in the series, Bobby Orr:

In terms of shutting down Orr, the Giants will be very physical and employing a similar approach as they did when they were able to limit his ability when they defeated Orr's Bruins in the 1974 Cup Finals. Reference from this article.

It was not uncommon for the influential Bobby Orr to play as much as 40 minutes a night for the Boston Bruins at that time.

So, Shero had his Flyers intentionally dump the puck into Orr’s side of the defensive zone and then chase after it furiously. The idea was to create the opportunity to hit the Bruins’ offensive genius as often as possible so as to physically wear down Boston’s quarterback. To stymie the Boston superstar before the chance to embark on a hallmark end-to-end rush with the puck ever developed.

The notorious Broad Street Bullies were the perfect team to undertake such an assigned task.
...

The Philadelphia Flyers did not fail to harass and hit Bobby Orr at every opportunity in Game Six of the 1974 Stanley Cup finals.

The move paid early dividends as the Boston superstar and Philadelphia captain BOBBY CLARKE had a confrontation at the fourteen minute mark of the first period and were both sent to the sin bin. Orr, who had throw a glove at Clarke, drew an extra penalty.

Then, with a little less than two and a half minutes minutes remaining and the clock winding down on Boston’s Cup aspirations, an absolutely exhausted Orr, who skated 35 minutes in the decisive Game Six, was assessed another penalty for hauling down Clarke from behind.

And with that, the Cup effectively passed to the Philadelphia Flyers.

Philadelphia Flyers captain BOBBY CLARKE (16) and ANDRE “Moose†DUPONT (6), a defenseman deep in the offensive zone, double-team Boston Bruins Hall of Fame defenseman BOBBY ORR (4) at the Spectrum in Philadelphia during the decisive Game Six of the 1974 Stanley Cup finals.

With as much physicality and tenacity on the Belfast Giants (Clarke, Lindros, Cook, Muller, Doan, Coulter, Hatcher) I believe that with the constant punishing of Orr, and having two players cover him at the same time will assuredly be able to handle the Platers' superstar given a proven formula led by the coach and captain of the Giants.

Good luck, BC.

 

[BraveCanadian]

I have to ask, why is it a nightmare matchup for Coffey? Orr is better at everything yes, and employs the exact same playstyle as Coffey, but it won't make much of a difference in him doing his job. Coffey will still be relied upon to act as the fourth forward and run the offense with the first two lines, which feature strong back-checkers to help neutralize odd-man chances in the event they happen. With a not overly fast forward corps, I am not too worried about the amount of odd-man rushes that will ensue in our own end.

Usually Coffey adds a unique weapon to a team with the amount of offense he is able to generate from the blueline and coming late.

ie. in most matchups he is a big + to your offense in comparison with your opposition. Your forwards could even be a little weaker than the opponents at first glance but Coffey would put you over the top.

That isn't the case here. Orr matches or beats him in that regard and is better defending on top of that.

Why Belfast should win in a 7-game series.
- More offensive-oriented forward corps aided by Coffey on the back-end.

Your top 6 is a little bit better offensively. I think when I looked at the VsX it was around 5% on the first line and 3% on the second -- but don't quote me. I think we make up a little ground with Orr and our fourth line, though.

However, as I said above.. our guys are aided by Orr - who imo is the only blueliner even better at boosting the forwards while not being as much of an issue the other way. This should also mitigate some of the defensive advantage of your first line with Clarke over our 1st line.

- Physically fluent throughout lineup that is built to match up with checking units such as Balon-Otto-Westfall.

I agree that your 2nd line is very big and physical. I don't find your first line to be overly physical at all. Clarke is very determined but a bit of a rat. Your third line is gritty too but not imposing like the second.

Luckily, I like Otto vs. Lindros to contain him somewhat. With Arbour and home ice we'll get that matchup a fair amount.

- Strong post-season goaltender playing behind responsible set of defensive defensemen minus Coffey, helped by the strong presence of quick, back-checking forwards.

I don't get this being an advantage considering our goaltender is equal/better and our defense is much better.

- Lineup that fits into Fred Shero's game plan with physical forwards and surplus of offensive weapons.

You did build a good match of players to Shero's most successful style.

- Third line that can matchup with any of Platers' lines.

They are kind of a jack of all trades for sure but I don't know if that makes them an advantage or just not a liability against our more specialized lines.

It probably depends who they end up on the ice against.

- Approach to shutting down the best player in the series, Bobby Orr:

In terms of shutting down Orr, the Giants will be very physical and employing a similar approach as they did when they were able to limit his ability when they defeated Orr's Bruins in the 1974 Cup Finals.

...

With as much physicality and tenacity on the Belfast Giants (Clarke, Lindros, Cook, Muller, Doan, Coulter, Hatcher) I believe that with the constant punishing of Orr, and having two players cover him at the same time will assuredly be able to handle the Platers' superstar given a proven formula led by the coach and captain of the Giants.

Good luck, BC.

I knew this would come up eventually. I don't think this strategy will work for a number of reasons:

1) Al Arbour is at least as good a strategist as Fred Shero. He will make adjustments if needed.

2) We have home ice advantage so we'll get some extra matchups we want.

3) Your strategy worked in the mid-70s was due to a lack of depth on the Bruins blueline and an over-reliance on Bobby Orr both ways when he was on the ice. Our team was constructed to let him play his game but also with enough depth that when this strategy inevitably came up, it would fail. We have depth.

4) Zdeno Chara. If you try to double team Orr he has a partner here more than capable of physically overpowering and breaking up a physical forecheck or cycle in our zone, and he is also capable enough of moving the puck out a weak side that is opened up by you attempting to double team Orr. Dallas Smith not so much.


You built a great team Velociraptor. This is a good matchup and it will be interesting to see the results. Good luck.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Guelph wins in 6 games

Stars:

1. Bobby Orr
2. Bobby Clarke
3. Zdeno Chara

Johnny Bower also had a strong series

 

[BraveCanadian]

As I said upthread, nice team this year Velociraptor.

Good series!

 

[Velociraptor]

I'll be cheering on the Platers the rest of the way, good luck BC.