GDT: Blues V Wild Game 3 MOD WARNING IN OP AND POST 467

[LGB51]

So glad I stopped watching this after the end of the second.

I need someone to explain a handful of things to me because I'm absolutely befuddled.

1) Why the switch to the 1-2-2? The Blues have always always been at their most effective when they dictate the play via the aggressive forecheck and the cycling that comes from the inevitably won puck battles. They tend to be in a defensive mindset anyway so they're pretty unlikely to get caught in a disadvantaged situation all that often. Granted that Minnesota's defensive capability is higher than most opponents the Blues would face, but they're not that good.
A 1-2-2 is pretty much a reactionary/counter-attacking system only. Ineffective against a defensively responsible team with speed.


2) Why are they not attacking the middle? The current Minnesota system wants to drive opposing pressure to the wings to limit options and the Blues are all too happy to go there, even on a rush. This is stupid.

3) Is it really that hard to replace Jackman with Bortuzzo? He wouldn't be any more inept with the puck and it's pretty unlikely he would be any slower or make any further defensive miscues.
I love Barret, but it's time to take Old Yeller behind the barn which saddens me greatly that the Blues won't have a defensive troll like they have for about the past two decades plus.

4) Finally, how does a team find themselves unable to care during the playoffs? I mean, I'm sure they do, but it's just hard to tell.
This would be like me requiring my staff to start working 7 or less hours a day at the end of a project during crunch time. There should be some pride there and I just don't see what I should be seeing.



I hate loving the game of hockey and being a Blues fan.

 

[i aint Dunn yet]

its only entertainment .. but damn ....

 

[Fred Murtz]

Nino Niederreiter EN goal, last 3 mins of 3rd

 

[SweetyV]

This team is pathetic. Year after year it's the same thing. I thought we solved this goal scoring issue only to see this brutal performance. Tarasenko no shots. Oshie and Backes continue to look like trash, and Jaskin is the linemate that is benched.

How do you go from how we played on Saturday to this steaming garbage? It looked like we were a different team!! At least Allen has been consistent.

 

[michall]

The transition from zone to zone was huge issue yesterday, Blues couldn´t get to neutral zone let alone to ozone, where Wild played so easily it was unbelievable. Also why are our guys thinks they are Gretzky and Lemieux in one, all the cuteness... That is not what Blues are! They need to be playing hard and not cute.

Let´s see if they can bring their A-Game tomorrow. If not, this is another 1st round exit in the making.

 

[ExJbeck]

Jackman and Bouwmeester need to sit. I watch the defense extremely close and those two out the weakest links. Michalek has actually played extreme well given he is playing with a pylon. I can't not explain how disappointed I will be if Bouwmeester get to play, I seriously will. He reaction to the Parise goal, "I wish I could have poked it out". Oh do you? I wish you would have planted his ass on the ice. Too bad JR didn't ask why he is only trying to mirror the offender and not make a play to steal the puck and get it up ice. He is finding himself in terrible position for entire shifts. One play just keeps jumping out at me from last night. At one point in our own end, I watched him wait on the sideboards as an outlet for Michalek, he (Bouw) didn't even glance up the ice to see where pressure was coming from. He accepts the pass and skate a few steps into a turnover because his head isn't in the ****ing game, never took his eyes off Michalek once.. Either his head is so far stuck up his own ass that I can't literally understand what is going in his perspective or he needs lasik.

 

[pricer502]

It's like the movie groundhog day but it's not funny. That should have been the avatars.
Blues fans are like an abused dog. We have unconditional love for the team. We can be beat and abused time and time again but we keep coming back with same enthusiasm. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone watching this team.

 

[Blues88]

It's quickly solved by Lindbohm and Bortuzzo. Dey say **** yo strategies...we here to smash

Why do you think Bortuzzo and Lindbohlm aren't playing?? They don't buy into the system of prevent hockey.

Completely agree with both of you. You can see it every time Bortuzzo plays. It's not just an aspect of physicality, but of controlling space. Pretty bad when, like Michalek, you're giving up ice from the line to the circles and still getting beat wide....

I don't see why stepping a team up at the blueline is preferable when they have speed. That just allows them a window to get around at the Blueline and in alone on goal. The problem tonight (which happened 3-4 times when we were getting dominated in the second) was the forwards were coming back in the zone, but completely missing their man on the backcheck, giving a passing lane and a good spot to shoot from. It led to one goal, should have another if not for Granlund's Cam Jansen-esque choke. The wild have speed through the nuetral zone, so stepping up on them, might slow them down, but players are good enough to power through, and missing the puck there can end in disaster.

The idea behind forechecking their D is to force their D to pass the puck out of the zone. Keeping a forward high to disrupt the middle or sealing off the wall is fundamental hockey. You take your chances getting beat wide to cut down the space the other team has to enter the zone. Jackman and Michalek are slow footed and will cede ice to the Wild forwards, but then that's up the the D partner to intervene as best they can and the forwards to get on the backcheck.

The Wild have speed through the neutral zone in part because we're giving away ice. I get they have quick forwards, but it's a style benefited by the Blues backing in constantly. Take a look at how hard it is for us to get controlled entries, or even navigate that neutral 50 feet of ice. It's not solely because the Wild are supporting each other. Scandella, Spurgeon, Dumba, and Suter are all taking away space. Scandella in particular isn't giving anyone time when they hit the blue line. The Wild are crossing the red line and our D are standing on top of the circles in our zone, waiting.

If we're gonna get beat so cleanly by their first passes out of the zone, we should just play a 1 3 1 all game and clogged up the neutral zone. I agree with you about the lack of backside pressure, but they are setting themselves up for failure and have all year. It's not helping our transition game either.

Like I said, I believe it to be a huge problem among a sea of smaller issues. I beat this drum all season long, hooray for me, but backing in consistently will get you killed.

 

[hullderko]

Wild fans 10x louder than Blues fans...Wild played with 10x more energy than Blues. They are not necessarily a faster team IMHO...they have more jump and skate hard on every shift. Blues forwards turn and watch the Wild leave when they lose the puck in the Ozone. No life...they look tired...or thinking about golf or something.

 

[Thallis]

The idea behind forechecking their D is to force their D to pass the puck out of the zone. Keeping a forward high to disrupt the middle or sealing off the wall is fundamental hockey. You take your chances getting beat wide to cut down the space the other team has to enter the zone. Jackman and Michalek are slow footed and will cede ice to the Wild forwards, but then that's up the the D partner to intervene as best they can and the forwards to get on the backcheck.

The Wild have speed through the neutral zone in part because we're giving away ice. I get they have quick forwards, but it's a style benefited by the Blues backing in constantly. Take a look at how hard it is for us to get controlled entries, or even navigate that neutral 50 feet of ice. It's not solely because the Wild are supporting each other. Scandella, Spurgeon, Dumba, and Suter are all taking away space. Scandella in particular isn't giving anyone time when they hit the blue line. The Wild are crossing the red line and our D are standing on top of the circles in our zone, waiting.

If we're gonna get beat so cleanly by their first passes out of the zone, we should just play a 1 3 1 all game and clogged up the neutral zone. I agree with you about the lack of backside pressure, but they are setting themselves up for failure and have all year. It's not helping our transition game either.

Like I said, I believe it to be a huge problem among a sea of smaller issues. I beat this drum all season long, hooray for me, but backing in consistently will get you killed.

We need to have a better forecheck for sure, but the Wild are getting speed through the neutral zone because they base their game around it. Their defensemen are hitting the forwards in stride, something that only Pietrangelo was doing last night. When the Blues have had pressure in the series (and the game is tied or the Blues are down), the Wild have been collapsing and counter-attacking. This is how they get speed. These are NHLers whose game is built around speed; they're not going to need much space to get to where they can blow by guys standing them up. They'll be there when they hit the red line and they'll make a play while taking the hit if we try to stand them up consistently. We won the hardest division in hockey playing like this, the forecheck, passing game, and complete disappearance of the offense of one of our scoring lines are all much bigger issues.

 

[Captain Creampuff]

Was is the deal with having the winger streaking up the right side of the ice ready for a nice open pass and easy zone entry, only to have the puck forced to the left side every SINGLE TIME and ends up with us dumping the puck in, Wild retrieving the puck and then transition their way back into our zone.

 

[ManyIdeas]

Also I know that they would have lost regardless, but wow the penalty calls are pretty ticky tacky to me.

 

[jura]

Wild fans 10x louder than Blues fans...Wild played with 10x more energy than Blues. They are not necessarily a faster team IMHO...they have more jump and skate hard on every shift. Blues forwards turn and watch the Wild leave when they lose the puck in the Ozone. No life...they look tired...or thinking about golf or something.

 

[fishsandwichpatrol]

I wanted the wild because I didn't think they would beat the hell out of us and take our game away. Seriously, having watched the rest of the playoffs, this game and the first game are the worst hockey I've seen. I'd hate to think what Calgary would do to us even.

Good news is we are over our goalie excuses!

The one positive from this is I think that FINALLY Blues fans will realize as a whole that our goaltending hasn't been the problem, it's the skaters. Even Golden Boy Allen can't save us when we play like garbage in front of him.

 

[Alklha]

The one positive from this is I think that FINALLY Blues fans will realize as a whole that our goaltending hasn't been the problem, it's the skaters. Even Golden Boy Allen can't save us when we play like garbage in front of him.

Most Blues fans realised that long ago. It was Doug Armstrong who didn't.

He done the same thing this year as he done last year. He didn't properly evaluate the needs of the team at the deadline and made trades for the sake of making trades.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Most Blues fans realised that long ago. It was Doug Armstrong who didn't.

He done the same thing this year as he done last year. He didn't properly evaluate the needs of the team at the deadline and made trades for the sake of making trades.

I don't think he did all that bad. The problem is that Bouwmeester has fallen off a cliff. If he were playing like he did last year, that Michalek trade looks like a brilliant move. I'm happy with Bort, and I don't mind bringing Jokinen in for some added depth.

 

[Alklha]

I don't think he did all that bad. The problem is that Bouwmeester has fallen off a cliff. If he were playing like he did last year, that Michalek trade looks like a brilliant move. I'm happy with Bort, and I don't mind bringing Jokinen in for some added depth.

I'm really talking about Michálek here (& Miller last season), since he was our main pick up. We got Bortuzzo because Cole requested a trade, and nothing wrong with getting a veteran for a late pick.

But Michálek... he has to play with either Bouwmeester or Gunnarsson, or we're left with a much worse bottom pairing than Jackman-Polák. A failed pairing that Armstrong highlighted when talking after acquiring Gunnarsson.

That means we're now in a position where Jackman is being expected to move up and play with either Shattenkirk or Pietrangelo. Something he isn't capable of doing effectively anymore.

The counter argument is going to be that Shattenkirk was injured at the time, and that's fine. Then we need a coach who has the guts to make the tough decision, and Hitch hasn't shown himself capable of leaving out a Jackman or a Michálek to actually get a defensive unit playing better. People can laugh at what Chicago gave up for Vermette, but at least Quenneville didn't let that impact the decisions he made when picking his line up.

 

[Vladdy the Impaler]

Honestly, bench Oshie for the rest of the series. I guarantee we will see a better effort on the ice if Hitch sends a message about the lack of leadership

 

[Alklha]

Honestly, bench Oshie for the rest of the series. I guarantee we will see a better effort on the ice if Hitch sends a message about the lack of leadership

Jaškin should be out before Oshie. I'm not really interested in his past playoff performances, that's a discussion to be had at the end of the season. We trusted him enough to keep him this season, he gets judged on this season until it is over. He's not the worst player.

Rattie isn't going to offer more, the question is then if we believe that Fabbri is ahead of Rattie. If he is, then get Fabbri in for Jaškin.

The message to the leadership core can be made by dropping Jackman for Lindbohm.

 

[Dbrownss]

Agreed, I think Butler is an upgrade on Jackman vs the wild. The man takes dumb penalties but forces forwards to the boards and has the wheels to cut them off.

Bortuzzo has to be in for Michalek...just has too. Great reference on chicago...prime example of what needs to be done.


I mention Butler since if Lindbohm was an option he would have been recalled last night

 

[Thallis]

I don't think he did all that bad. The problem is that Bouwmeester has fallen off a cliff. If he were playing like he did last year, that Michalek trade looks like a brilliant move. I'm happy with Bort, and I don't mind bringing Jokinen in for some added depth.

Yeah, I don't have a problem with Armstrong's deadline this year. I think it was right to give this group the benefit of the doubt and the keys to the playoff run. The depth added was solid and have largely performed at or above expectations. It's just the players that were given the trust have not performed. We needed it to really know what we have here and there's still a chance for them to redeem themselves.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I'm really talking about Michálek here (& Miller last season), since he was our main pick up. We got Bortuzzo because Cole requested a trade, and nothing wrong with getting a veteran for a late pick.

But Michálek... he has to play with either Bouwmeester or Gunnarsson, or we're left with a much worse bottom pairing than Jackman-Polák. A failed pairing that Armstrong highlighted when talking after acquiring Gunnarsson.

That means we're now in a position where Jackman is being expected to move up and play with either Shattenkirk or Pietrangelo. Something he isn't capable of doing effectively anymore.

The counter argument is going to be that Shattenkirk was injured at the time, and that's fine. Then we need a coach who has the guts to make the tough decision, and Hitch hasn't shown himself capable of leaving out a Jackman or a Michálek to actually get a defensive unit playing better. People can laugh at what Chicago gave up for Vermette, but at least Quenneville didn't let that impact the decisions he made when picking his line up.

Your last point is spot on, and that's a much bigger concern for me than what Armstrong did. Army has done a good job of improving this team on the ice this year. Hitch, for the third year in a row is failing to make adjustments to counter our opponents. That is simply unacceptable to me.

 

[Alklha]

Your last point is spot on, and that's a much bigger concern for me than what Armstrong did. Army has done a good job of improving this team on the ice this year. Hitch, for the third year in a row is failing to make adjustments to counter our opponents. That is simply unacceptable to me.

Hitch is a big part of the problem this year, no doubt.

My criticism of Armstrong wasn't so much in the actual trades, but rather our main deadline moves have simply looked to be trades for the sake of acquiring more talented players. They haven't really fit with the team, and haven't improved us overall. Last year, Miller didn't bring anything that Elliott didn't offer. This year, Michálek doesn't fit well enough to really offer an upgrade.

When we look at the 2013 playoffs, Miller not being a solution to our problems was obvious, as many of us pointed out all through last season. When we look at all our defensemen, at least when healthy, Michálek was always unlikely to be a good fit without forcing someone of equal talent out. But the asset cost was relatively small this year, so it isn't a big deal. It's more about where his focus was.

I'd rather have seen us "overpay" for a forward at the deadline. At least if he didn't work out, the logic behind the move would have been sound.

 

[ManyIdeas]

My issue with it is that there ARE ALREADY IMPROVEMENTS TO BE MADE. Not angry at anyome here, but you would have to be out of your hitchin mind to not just sit some 2 man combo of jax/jbo/michalek and bring in bort and lindbohm. If you don't wanna touch lindbohm so he can get 20 minutes in chicago, jax and butler would be an acceptable swap.

Then let's go look at the forwards real quick

steen lehtera tarasenko
schwartz stastny berglund
ott goc reaves

we literally only dressed 9 forwards last game. could we just dress rattie/jokinen/porter?

 

[StLHokie]

I'm not sure why people are complaining about Oshie getting more ice time than Frank last night. Tarasenko was a -3 last night. There was a reason his ice time was limited.