GDT: Blues V Wild Game 3 MOD WARNING IN OP AND POST 467

[Vladdy the Impaler]

I'm not sure why people are complaining about Oshie getting more ice time than Frank last night. Tarasenko was a -3 last night. There was a reason his ice time was limited.

Because Tarasenko had a hat trick in game 2?

 

[TheDizee]

I'm not sure why people are complaining about Oshie getting more ice time than Frank last night. Tarasenko was a -3 last night. There was a reason his ice time was limited.

Down by 2 goals and you want the guy who has 2 goals in his past 24 games to get more ice time?

Enjoy the offseason then.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Down by 2 goals and you want the guy who has 2 goals in his past 24 games to get more ice time?

Enjoy the offseason then.

Tarasenko was not very good at all last night either.

 

[StLHokie]

Because Tarasenko had a hat trick in game 2?

One of which being actually considered a "quality" goal. Dubnyk saves the short side shot 99 times out of 100 and an empty netter.

Down by 2 goals and you want the guy who has 2 goals in his past 24 games to get more ice time?

Enjoy the offseason then.

Blues wouldn't have been down by two goals if Tarasenko hadn't been on the ice for the previous 2....

I'm not saying that I would prefer to have Oshie on the ice over Frank, but I am saying that from a TEAM standpoint, very few players showed that they were deserving to be on the ice last night at all. Comparing Oshie's play last night to Tarasenko's resulted in two very similar pictures.

 

[Meatwagon]

I get that last night was a bad game, but how about giving the Wild credit? They literally played a perfect game, that was the best we will see from them, and it's up to the PLAYERS to make the adjustments.

At this point, there isn't a whole lot that Hitch can do? Sure he can supplant JBo/Michalek with Bortuzzo, but if you think a #6 Dman or a 13th forward is going to make a lick of difference, then the Blues really are toast.

For me, the Blues have to win tomorrow, then they go home 2-2 and both teams split their home ice advantages. Also if the Blues win, they will earn home ice back with 2 of 3 at home. Give these guys a chance to redeem themselves, would ya? I fully understand the frustration level and the perpetual "woah-ways-me" attitude, but at some point you have to tip your cap to the competition that just beat you because they played a PERFECT game. I really doubt any team in the league would be able to repeat that performance against the Blues again. Why? Because the Blues are a good team with a Hof'er coach that can actually make the necessary adjustments to counter the Wilds attack.

I'm so sick of hearing about the Wilds speed, you know why they're fast? It's because we cough the puck up with 2 forwards deep and all the Wild have to do is beat 3 guys instead of the whole team and its because the Blues are frustrated by how tight the checking is. The fact that there is so much garbage after the whistle is what worries me, it shows a complete lack of composure and explains why this team gets down on themselves so easily. That starts and ends with the captain. He needs to cool his jets with the after whistle stuff, it's a complete waste of energy, which they clearly need to be perserving. The only guy that has real "speed" is Zucker and if someone would destroy him at the point of contact, the Blues can negate that speed pretty damn quick. The rest of their players are no faster than the Blues, the reason the Blues look slow is because the minute they enter the zone it's either a dump in-change or they play the puck back to the D, they need to skate with speed to the outside and shoot/pass of the goalies pads to get him moving and open up some shooting lanes. They will try something else, but until they force the Wild D to turn and play with their backs to the offensive zone, they will be able to retrieve, pass through the neutral zone and allow the forwards to enter the zone at full stride, which makes all of our Dman look slow as molasses. Z and JBO maybe a step slow this year, but when the forwards enter at full speed, they have 2 choice, stand them up and get beat wide giving a clear break away, no Dman can catch a full speed forward flat footed or turn early giving them easy zone entry which is why Kane always beats us. The only way to nuetralize their attack is to keep their Dman facing the boards and clog the center on the ice and surrender the outside. Allen is a good enough goalie to stop the outside shots.

They bounced back in a big way on Sat, we shall see if they have it in them to do it again on Wed. They just have to stick with the gameplan and not deviate the second it becomes a slog. They may need Allen to steal this game and very well could see this being a 2-1,1-0 type game.

The season isn't over, and they can still come home tied. That's what most asked for when they left on Sat, just get back home 2-2. They still can, but if Hitch and Army panic, then the message is sent,"you guys are toast and we are grasping at straws". That would be a shame. This group has earned the right to sink or swim after doing so well in the regular season, let's see what they can do? If the crap the bed then make some moves, but the series is 2-1 not 4-1.

 

[TheDizee]

One of which being actually considered a "quality" goal. Dubnyk saves the short side shot 99 times out of 100 and an empty netter.



Blues wouldn't have been down by two goals if Tarasenko hadn't been on the ice for the previous 2....

I'm not saying that I would prefer to have Oshie on the ice over Frank, but I am saying that from a TEAM standpoint, very few players showed that they were deserving to be on the ice last night at all. Comparing Oshie's play last night to Tarasenko's resulted in two very similar pictures.

Did you just really say that the blues were down by 2 because Tarasenko happened to be on the ice? LMAO

Did you watch the game last night? Tarasenko was actually one of the few people attempting to get shots.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Did you just really say that the blues were down by 2 because Tarasenko happened to be on the ice? LMAO

Did you watch the game last night? Tarasenko was actually one of the few people attempting to get shots.

Tarasenko's poorly timed dive played a huge role in the first goal. If he had stayed on his feet and kept them moving, he would have been in a good position to pick the puck up following Gunnarsson's great poke cheek. He's got to have the awareness not to dive and leave us with two players laying flat on their stomachs.

The second goal was primarily on Bouwmeester and Steen.

 

[StLHokie]

Did you just really say that the blues were down by 2 because Tarasenko happened to be on the ice? LMAO

Did you watch the game last night? Tarasenko was actually one of the few people attempting to get shots.

No, I said they wouldn't be down 2 goals had Tarasenko's line not played poorly and given up the two previous.


His attempting shots that resulted in him finishing with a grand total of zero shots on goal?

I'm jut saying, if you're going to try and criticize, at least be objective about it. Last nights performance wasn't because of 3 players, it was because of 18. There's this criticism of the teams leadership going on. If there is a lack of leadership, it is the responsibility of everyone to have people stand up to lead. It doesn't matter if they are captains or not.

 

[StLAvsFan]

I get that last night was a bad game, but how about giving the Wild credit? They literally played a perfect game, that was the best we will see from them, and it's up to the PLAYERS to make the adjustments.

At this point, there isn't a whole lot that Hitch can do? Sure he can supplant JBo/Michalek with Bortuzzo, but if you think a #6 Dman or a 13th forward is going to make a lick of difference, then the Blues really are toast.

For me, the Blues have to win tomorrow, then they go home 2-2 and both teams split their home ice advantages. Also if the Blues win, they will earn home ice back with 2 of 3 at home. Give these guys a chance to redeem themselves, would ya? I fully understand the frustration level and the perpetual "woah-ways-me" attitude, but at some point you have to tip your cap to the competition that just beat you because they played a PERFECT game. I really doubt any team in the league would be able to repeat that performance against the Blues again. Why? Because the Blues are a good team with a Hof'er coach that can actually make the necessary adjustments to counter the Wilds attack.

I'm so sick of hearing about the Wilds speed, you know why they're fast? It's because we cough the puck up with 2 forwards deep and all the Wild have to do is beat 3 guys instead of the whole team and its because the Blues are frustrated by how tight the checking is. The fact that there is so much garbage after the whistle is what worries me, it shows a complete lack of composure and explains why this team gets down on themselves so easily. That starts and ends with the captain. He needs to cool his jets with the after whistle stuff, it's a complete waste of energy, which they clearly need to be perserving. The only guy that has real "speed" is Zucker and if someone would destroy him at the point of contact, the Blues can negate that speed pretty damn quick. The rest of their players are no faster than the Blues, the reason the Blues look slow is because the minute they enter the zone it's either a dump in-change or they play the puck back to the D, they need to skate with speed to the outside and shoot/pass of the goalies pads to get him moving and open up some shooting lanes. They will try something else, but until they force the Wild D to turn and play with their backs to the offensive zone, they will be able to retrieve, pass through the neutral zone and allow the forwards to enter the zone at full stride, which makes all of our Dman look slow as molasses. Z and JBO maybe a step slow this year, but when the forwards enter at full speed, they have 2 choice, stand them up and get beat wide giving a clear break away, no Dman can catch a full speed forward flat footed or turn early giving them easy zone entry which is why Kane always beats us. The only way to nuetralize their attack is to keep their Dman facing the boards and clog the center on the ice and surrender the outside. Allen is a good enough goalie to stop the outside shots.

They bounced back in a big way on Sat, we shall see if they have it in them to do it again on Wed. They just have to stick with the gameplan and not deviate the second it becomes a slog. They may need Allen to steal this game and very well could see this being a 2-1,1-0 type game.

The season isn't over, and they can still come home tied. That's what most asked for when they left on Sat, just get back home 2-2. They still can, but if Hitch and Army panic, then the message is sent,"you guys are toast and we are grasping at straws". That would be a shame. This group has earned the right to sink or swim after doing so well in the regular season, let's see what they can do? If the crap the bed then make some moves, but the series is 2-1 not 4-1.

How many times have u seen the Kings bounce back from being down in playoff series the past 3-4 yrs.? Quite a few times---that's how many. I still believe the Blues have it in them to come back strong in Game 4 & eventually win this series, but to do so every player in the Blues locker room better understand that they're going to need to bring their A-Game to beat the Wild. This series is going to the team that wants it the most. It's not about X's & O's. It's about which team is gonna literally will their way to victory. So far, Minnie seems to want it more.

 

[Blues88]

We need to have a better forecheck for sure, but the Wild are getting speed through the neutral zone because they base their game around it. Their defensemen are hitting the forwards in stride, something that only Pietrangelo was doing last night. When the Blues have had pressure in the series (and the game is tied or the Blues are down), the Wild have been collapsing and counter-attacking. This is how they get speed. These are NHLers whose game is built around speed; they're not going to need much space to get to where they can blow by guys standing them up. They'll be there when they hit the red line and they'll make a play while taking the hit if we try to stand them up consistently. We won the hardest division in hockey playing like this, the forecheck, passing game, and complete disappearance of the offense of one of our scoring lines are all much bigger issues.

We've won the hardest division in hockey before while actively engaging from the blueline. The complete disappearance of the offense can in some ways be traced to a terrible transition game that's getting exposed. Forwards fly the zone, and have consistently all year. That puts more stress on the D to skate the puck out and evade the forecheck, something Shatty and Pietro seem to be the only ones capable of. Like I said, I get it.....but all things being equal, you still have a coach playing two slow footed defensemen against a speedy team, even if we should respect their transition speed. It works both ways in my view. You can't put it all on the forwards for backside pressure when the D passively allow the other team to enter the zone. That's more ice to cover, and the Wild (or every other team this season) are already in good scoring positions.

The neutral zone is key. So I'm not entirely sure why there's such a gap between our forechecking forwards and our D if we're getting killed over 50 feet of ice. I take your point about the first touches, and that's absolutely an issue that's been raised and discussed repeatedly. Bouwmeester looks rickety, like he hasn't fully recovered from his groin injury. You can see it with his exits. He's just pushing the puck up the wall to get a tip at the red line. Shatty's getting pressured hard-Pietro (as you identified) is the only one capable of accurate break out passes. That's wrecking us.

This is my axe to grind. I can't stand it, and I feel crazy for it. We changed the way we broke out mid-way through '13-14 and we were less explosive in transition because of it. Tarasenko's individual efforts, Schwartz and occasionally Steen have masked the issues that, to me, have been building for a while now. Our passing has been atrocious lately.

Gauging opinion here, but have you really felt confident against the Central this season? We had a +1 goal differential and largely beat up on the Avs. I don't want to diminish the wins, but it's not like we controlled play against the Jets, Hawks, or Preds to any discernible degree. Take a look: http://blues.nhl.com/club/teamvsteam.htm. The Wild may be a fast team but we make nearly every opponent look fast. We're a skilled team, more so than in recent years, and we did a lot winning this season because of it. We've also done it with the look of a less cohesive five man unit and a less effective defense.

 

[TK 421]

Tarasenko's poorly timed dive played a huge role in the first goal. If he had stayed on his feet and kept them moving, he would have been in a good position to pick the puck up following Gunnarsson's great poke cheek. He's got to have the awareness not to dive and leave us with two players laying flat on their stomachs.

The second goal was primarily on Bouwmeester and Steen.

He also had that weak stick check attempt right before that coming down the wall into the zone. He didn't play well last night other than a few slick passing plays.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

We've won the hardest division in hockey before while actively engaging from the blueline. The complete disappearance of the offense can in some ways be traced to a terrible transition game that's getting exposed. Forwards fly the zone, and have consistently all year. That puts more stress on the D to skate the puck out and evade the forecheck, something Shatty and Pietro seem to be the only ones capable of. Like I said, I get it.....but all things being equal, you still have a coach playing two slow footed defensemen against a speedy team, even if we should respect their transition speed. It works both ways in my view. You can't put it all on the forwards for backside pressure when the D passively allow the other team to enter the zone. That's more ice to cover, and the Wild (or every other team this season) are already in good scoring positions.

The neutral zone is key. So I'm not entirely sure why there's such a gap between our forechecking forwards and our D if we're getting killed over 50 feet of ice. I take your point about the first touches, and that's absolutely an issue that's been raised and discussed repeatedly. Bouwmeester looks rickety, like he hasn't fully recovered from his groin injury. You can see it with his exits. He's just pushing the puck up the wall to get a tip at the red line. Shatty's getting pressured hard-Pietro (as you identified) is the only one capable of accurate break out passes. That's wrecking us.

This is my axe to grind. I can't stand it, and I feel crazy for it. We changed the way we broke out mid-way through '13-14 and we were less explosive in transition because of it. Tarasenko's individual efforts, Schwartz and occasionally Steen have masked the issues that, to me, have been building for a while now. Our passing has been atrocious lately.

Gauging opinion here, but have you really felt confident against the Central this season? We had a +1 goal differential and largely beat up on the Avs. I don't want to diminish the wins, but it's not like we controlled play against the Jets, Hawks, or Preds to any discernible degree. Take a look: http://blues.nhl.com/club/teamvsteam.htm. The Wild may be a fast team but we make nearly every opponent look fast. We're a skilled team, more so than in recent years, and we did a lot winning this season because of it. We've also done it with the look of a less cohesive five man unit and a less effective defense.

There's a lot here that rings true.

All year, I thought the team would slowly tighten things up as the post-season approached. I thought Hitchcock was showing a new side by not melting down when players made little mistakes (like dumb moves at the blue-line). He was letting the players police themselves to some degree. But I expected that the effort would pick up, the attention to detail would increase, and by the time the playoffs rolled around we'd see a more familiar brand of Blues' hockey, this time with increased scoring threats due to added skill.

But it never has happened. The Blues are getting out-structured and out-hustled. I give Minnesota and Yeo a hell of a lot of credit for this.

A lot of things would look differently if the Blues win Game 4. But I've seen one too many years of the team circling the drain after a couple tough losses to truly believe that something different is going to happen.

 

[Dbrownss]

There's a lot here that rings true.

All year, I thought the team would slowly tighten things up as the post-season approached. I thought Hitchcock was showing a new side by not melting down when players made little mistakes (like dumb moves at the blue-line). He was letting the players police themselves to some degree. But I expected that the effort would pick up, the attention to detail would increase, and by the time the playoffs rolled around we'd see a more familiar brand of Blues' hockey, this time with increased scoring threats due to added skill.

But it never has happened. The Blues are getting out-structured and out-hustled. I give Minnesota and Yeo a hell of a lot of credit for this.

A lot of things would look differently if the Blues win Game 4. But I've seen one too many years of the team circling the drain after a couple tough losses to truly believe that something different is going to happen.

They get us every year. It's like Charlie Brown and the football....well get it next time....