Blues Trade Proposals Part XXXIII

[Davimir Tarablad]

Im fine with people wanting to keep Dunn as long as they realize it's going to take more than Barb + Schmaltz to land Reinhart. I personally suggested Kostin+ for Reinhart, but if I was Buffalo I would be looking for a blue-chip D as a main piece back if I were to ever consider moving Sam, so I don't know if that offer would even move the needle. I'm thinking Reinhart has similar value to what Drouin fetched last year.

It all depends on whether or not you view him as a C or W. I personally view him as a Steen type who can play center in a pinch, but is much better on wing, hence why I don't want to pay a premium. Barbashev isn't a drastic downgrade from Reinhart, and Schmaltz can very feasibly become a top4 PMD, so it's not entirely out of line in terms of value. But Buffalo likely hangs on and tries to get the best 1 for 1 they can, and I can't fault them for that.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Im fine with people wanting to keep Dunn as long as they realize it's going to take more than Barb + Schmaltz to land Reinhart. I personally suggested Kostin+ for Reinhart, but if I was Buffalo I would be looking for a blue-chip D as a main piece back if I were to ever consider moving Sam, so I don't know if that offer would even move the needle. I'm thinking Reinhart has similar value to what Drouin fetched last year.

Drouin who came off a 53 point season playing with a bunch of bottom six players and essentially drove their offense, Kucherov aside?

They may have similar potential, but production alone puts Drouin at a higher value.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

I'm not as sold on Reinhart being the real-deal, so I'd go after cheaper options. His skating is a big red flag.

As for Barbashev, he's not a sure-fire 2C, imo. He's a middle-6 tweener that isnt' enough to drive the offense on his own. He doesn't have an elite skill set; he's just okay to good on everything. Guys like this have to work really hard to be top 6 players, and they have to have the right linemates. I don't think Barbashev is in the Musil territory of prospects, but I definitely wouldn't loop him together with Kostin, Thomas, and Walman. Maybe with Thompson and Kyrou. He, Blais, and Schmaltz are all "NHL ready"-type guys that aren't really elite at anything, but can play the minutes in the right scenario, and the two forwards are both middle-6 tweeners. All have value (Barbashev and Schmaltz due to position) but none are guys you build a team around. That's more Thomas.

I suppose my current rankings by role would be the following:

Build you team around these guys:
Thomas

Complimentary Pieces:
Kostin
Walman
Kyrou
Thompson

Depth:
Barbashev
Blais
Schmaltz
Toropchenko

Grit:
Musil

I'm not sure where to put Mikkola, or Kaspick as I have seen very little of either.

 

[Spektre]

Obviously Armstrong has “gone for it” in the past but he had a team he felt was a piece or two away from a serious run. It didn’t go the way he wanted but hindsight is what it is.

I see three possibilities:

One, Army trades for a Vrbata type player at the deadline. He marginally improves the team for the playoffs while not giving up a lot of assets, and the player is a rental.

Two, he makes a huge splash trading a lot of prospects for a very impactful player. Think of a ROR type player. It’s a “go for it” move as well as a long term play.

Three, Army makes next to no moves keeping all the organizational assets. The road to the Cup is letting the prospects develop.

It was an interesting offseason and it’ll be interesting to see what direction Army takes the club. Pulling off a go for it trade will be harder than some teams due to the Blues being close to the cap. The biggest cap dump player is probably Gunnarsson at 2.9 million. That’s not a lot of money.

My bet is on the Vrbata type upgrade.

 

[Ranksu]

I hope Army doesn't call or answer The phone at TDL off-season Army should move Gunnar + Bertta and get at least 2018 1st Round pick.

 

[Reality Czech]

I understand that Barbeshev hasn't progressed as well as we hoped, but are we now at the point where he isn't a huge loss if given up?

I understand Barby still has some potential but I would have a hard time classifying him as a "huge loss" if he is traded. We don't have a first pick and many fans want to hang onto Thomas, Kyrou, Thompson and Kostin. So someone is gonna have to go if we seek out another top 6 guy. Barbashev seems like a prime candidate to me. Sure, he can be better than he's shown so far but does anyone really expect him to be a game breaker at any point in his career?

 

[Bluesnatic27]

I understand Barby still has some potential but I would have a hard time classifying him as a "huge loss" if he is traded. We don't have a first pick and many fans want to hang onto Thomas, Kyrou, Thompson and Kostin. So someone is gonna have to go if we seek out another top 6 guy. Barbashev seems like a prime candidate to me. Sure, he can be better than he's shown so far but does anyone really expect him to be a game breaker at any point in his career?

That seems like an odd comparison to me. What you said, to me anyways, makes it sound like it's okay to trade him because he's not going to be a gamebreaker. The list of "gamebreaking" players or prospects is a very small list, and I wouldn't put anyone of the Blues prospects on that list. But what Barbeshev has, as I pointed out, is that he's a natural center. That's something only he and Thomas have compared to the rest of the prospects. I'm not saying he's untradeable, but he's been written off rather quickly because he underwent some growing pains and there are shiny new toys to look at.

 

[The Note]

On the main board it seems the Philly fans ask for Simmonds would be one of Thompson/Kostin+ ‘19 first+ Gunnar (cap.) There seems to be a preference for Kostin but it’s close to a split. Would anyone do that? Simmonds would round out the forwards pretty perfectly this year and next but it would certainly be a high price.

 

[Majorityof1]

That seems like an odd comparison to me. What you said, to me anyways, makes it sound like it's okay to trade him because he's not going to be a gamebreaker. The list of "gamebreaking" players or prospects is a very small list, and I wouldn't put anyone of the Blues prospects on that list. But what Barbeshev has, as I pointed out, is that he's a natural center. That's something only he and Thomas have compared to the rest of the prospects. I'm not saying he's untradeable, but he's been written off rather quickly because he underwent some growing pains and there are shiny new toys to look at.

This. So much this. If I could like this post a dozen times I would. In fact, I am going to go into your post history and "like" the last dozen posts because of this one. We had Barbashev as our #2 prospect at the beginning of the season and now he is an afterthought. Such a what have you done for me lately mentality.

 

[MissouriMook]

On the main board it seems the Philly fans ask for Simmonds would be one of Thompson/Kostin+ ‘19 first+ Gunnar (cap.) There seems to be a preference for Kostin but it’s close to a split. Would anyone do that? Simmonds would round out the forwards pretty perfectly this year and next but it would certainly be a high price.

I would do that deal in a heartbeat, but I wonder if Hextall would want more than that. Simmonds is on a ridiculously cheap deal, but only has one more year left after this one. This a deal that, at that value, would have to be done sooner rather than later, and you'd have to be pretty comfortable that you knew what it was going to take to re-sign him.

 

[Dbrownss]

I would do that deal in a heartbeat, but I wonder if Hextall would want more than that. Simmonds is on a ridiculously cheap deal, but only has one more year left after this one. This a deal that, at that value, would have to be done sooner rather than later, and you'd have to be pretty comfortable that you knew what it was going to take to re-sign him.

I'd love to have Simmonds but he's 29yrs old. I dont know if Id love to pay market price. I honestly thought he was younger.

 

[Spektre]

Most fans would probably love to have Simmonds but he's starting the 2nd half of his career. I wouldn't move the assets it would take to get him.

 

[Stealth JD]

This. So much this. If I could like this post a dozen times I would. In fact, I am going to go into your post history and "like" the last dozen posts because of this one. We had Barbashev as our #2 prospect at the beginning of the season and now he is an afterthought. Such a what have you done for me lately mentality.

He's got to show something and at least be able to stick. Honestly, the door was never going to be more open for him than it was at training camp. I wouldn't be surprised if his career went the way of Rattie, to be honest. He's still got NHL-upside, but competition is going up and his time in the prospect-spotlight is running out. Put up or shut up. He may appear as an afterthought now...but how much consideration should be given to a guy who couldn't beat out Andrea Roth (Sundqvist), MPS, Jaskin, Chris Thorburn, Tage Thompson, Sammy Blais, etc. when Berglund and Fabbri are both already out?

 

[Majorityof1]

It definitely is concerning. However, Thompson couldn't beat out Thorburn, MPS, Jaskin either. Nor could Blais, or Thomas or Kyrou. None of them did. We rationalize those guys being in Juniors/the AHL by saying its better they get Top 6 minutes than mucking it up on our 3rd line, but Barbashev is labeled a failure when its the same situation. And yes, I know he's older, but he's still young and waiver eligible. So if it helped his development to be sent down, they could do so. I think there is more going on there than we know. I can't fathom why Sundqvist and MPS stick and he doesn't from what I have seen. Or why Bennett was given chances. Barbashev wasn't great but he was better than a couple guys we have up. So were some of the other rookies. But they all got sent down and/or have had short leashes in call-ups. There is something there I am not seeing. I don't know what that is, but I am unwilling to write Barbashev off until I do know what is going on. I would be willing to bet Barbashev will get another call-up this season. I'll be very interested to see how that plays out. I also wish he'd get the opportunity to go to San Antonio rather than the dumpster fire in Chicago.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

I don't think anyone is writing Barby off, i just think if we were to move some pieces his 'loss' would be easier to swallow compared to some of our other prospects at this point. However, we all realize he still holds plenty of value. Which is why other teams would want him in a trade. But as time continues to tick other Blues prospects are showing more promise and dealing him wouldn't appear to hurt us a much as dealing some of our other prospects with a higher ceiling.

 

[Majorityof1]

I don't think anyone is writing Barby off, i just think if we were to move some pieces his 'loss' would be easier to swallow compared to some of our other prospects at this point. However, we all realize he still holds plenty of value. Which is why other teams would want him in a trade. But as time continues to tick other Blues prospects are showing more promise and dealing him wouldn't appear to hurt us a much as dealing some of our other prospects with a higher ceiling.

I beg to differ that his loss would be easier to swallow. He is a C and has shown he can look competent at that position in the NHL. Kyrou and Thompson have not.

Why do Tage and Kyrou suddenly have higher ceilings? They still have questions that they have not answered about their ability to produce in the NHL. Is it because Kyrou is tearing up juniors? Barby put up 1.67 while playing a much, much, much more complete game at Kyrou's age. Is it because Thompson is doing well in the AHL? Barby put up ,.8 ppg last year there. So people are judging his ceiling based on their expectations for what he could do this year, and their disappointment that he has been relegated to the AHL instead. But I doubt most of us have watched more than a handful of games of his in Chicago, and they only aired a few during the pre-season. So how are we to judge the change in his ceiling? We are going off stats (which are minimal in pre-season and ahl) and the coaches sending him down, without knowing their exact reasoning. I want to see more before I say he is the most expendable.

Personally for me, Kyrou is far and away the most expendable piece with value. I just don't like his game outside of his skating, like at all. Lots of players put up points in juniors and fizzle out in the pros. I suspect he'll be another example of that.

 

[Oberyn]

I beg to differ that his loss would be easier to swallow. He is a C and has shown he can look competent at that position in the NHL. Kyrou and Thompson have not.

Why do Tage and Kyrou suddenly have higher ceilings? They still have questions that they have not answered about their ability to produce in the NHL. Is it because Kyrou is tearing up juniors? Barby put up 1.67 while playing a much, much, much more complete game at Kyrou's age. Is it because Thompson is doing well in the AHL? Barby put up ,.8 ppg last year there. So people are judging his ceiling based on their expectations for what he could do this year, and their disappointment that he has been relegated to the AHL instead. But I doubt most of us have watched more than a handful of games of his in Chicago, and they only aired a few during the pre-season. So how are we to judge the change in his ceiling? We are going off stats (which are minimal in pre-season and ahl) and the coaches sending him down, without knowing their exact reasoning. I want to see more before I say he is the most expendable.

Personally for me, Kyrou is far and away the most expendable piece with value. I just don't like his game outside of his skating, like at all. Lots of players put up points in juniors and fizzle out in the pros. I suspect he'll be another example of that.

Kyrou is the type of player this team is sorely lacking. Great skating and terrific vision with the puck. He has some flaws in his game that may hinder his ability to transition to the pros, but I'm willing to take the risk and see how he progresses. Now if the Blues are looking to make a deal for a 1C and they want Kyrou in the package, then adding him as a no-brainer. But I wouldn't personally give him up for someone like Simmonds who is entering the decline of his career.

 

[Reality Czech]

That seems like an odd comparison to me. What you said, to me anyways, makes it sound like it's okay to trade him because he's not going to be a gamebreaker. The list of "gamebreaking" players or prospects is a very small list, and I wouldn't put anyone of the Blues prospects on that list. But what Barbeshev has, as I pointed out, is that he's a natural center. That's something only he and Thomas have compared to the rest of the prospects. I'm not saying he's untradeable, but he's been written off rather quickly because he underwent some growing pains and there are shiny new toys to look at.

Maybe we just differ on the meaning of the term "huge loss." Sure, he plays a position that we are lacking in, but all I'm saying is that if we don't wanna trade Dunn, Thomas, Kostin, Kyrou, and Thompson then who is left to trade? The Blues aren't exactly hurting for 3rd line caliber players. I'm saying it's ok to trade him because you have to give to get and I think we could overcome the loss of Barbashev, particularly if he is part of a package to bring us a top 6 winger or something we really need now. Not "writing him off" but as I said earlier, "huge loss" seems a bit of an overstatement. Fabbri is a huge loss, Barby likely would not be.

Sure, we don't have to make any major moves this year but I feel like Army has a relatively small set of guys he is willing to deal, and I bet Barbashev is on that list.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I value Kyrou over both Thompson and Barbashev. He's far from a finished product, but this organization desperately needs skilled players who can play with pace. Mobility is a premium asset in today's NHL, and his will earn him an NHL career of some sort. Being a RHS is just a bonus. I'd be loathe to part with him, and I don't think the Blues are eager to part ways.

Barbashev looked like a middle 6 center back in the day, and I think he still projects that way. He looked better in his NHL stint last year than Rattie ever did, and I think better than Thompson did in his shorts stint as well (not that it really matters). Not taking a step forward this year to build on that is disappointing, but hardly a death knell for his career. I wouldn't trade him for a rental, but I'd certainly move him for a key piece that could be extended.

Thompson has more value than Barbashev, IMO. I think he's more middle 6 than top 6, personally, but the tools mean there's more room for growth and projection than there is with Barbashev. He's no more a polished product than Kyrou is, but in much the same way I think his tools will earn him an NHL career of some sort. He also has a strong RHS, which the Blues desperately need. It would be great for the Blues if he can put it together and play with the impact of a 2nd liner. I doubt the Blues would be open to moving him.

 

[Stealth JD]

Personally for me, Kyrou is far and away the most expendable piece with value. I just don't like his game outside of his skating, like at all. Lots of players put up points in juniors and fizzle out in the pros. I suspect he'll be another example of that.

+1

I'd be fine with Army including him as part of a deal...if he's got high value, all the better.

 

[Dbrownss]

I value Kyrou over both Thompson and Barbashev. He's far from a finished product, but this organization desperately needs skilled players who can play with pace. Mobility is a premium asset in today's NHL, and his will earn him an NHL career of some sort. Being a RHS is just a bonus. I'd be loathe to part with him, and I don't think the Blues are eager to part ways.

Barbashev looked like a middle 6 center back in the day, and I think he still projects that way. He looked better in his NHL stint last year than Rattie ever did, and I think better than Thompson did in his shorts stint as well (not that it really matters). Not taking a step forward this year to build on that is disappointing, but hardly a death knell for his career. I wouldn't trade him for a rental, but I'd certainly move him for a key piece that could be extended.

Thompson has more value than Barbashev, IMO. I think he's more middle 6 than top 6, personally, but the tools mean there's more room for growth and projection than there is with Barbashev. He's no more a polished product than Kyrou is, but in much the same way I think his tools will earn him an NHL career of some sort. He also has a strong RHS, which the Blues desperately need. It would be great for the Blues if he can put it together and play with the impact of a 2nd liner. I doubt the Blues would be open to moving him.

Agree'd with this.


Just want to add Thomas's value to conversation

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Thomas is the only prospect we have that I would deem untouchable. Kid just has "it."

 

[bleedblue1223]

I think I'd more fine if we moved any prospect not named Thomas, depending on the prospect and return of course. We have about a 5ish year window with Tarasenko's and Pietrangelo's primes. Along with them, we have some great supplemental pieces of similar ages in Schwartz, Schenn, and Parayko. While it would be good to have a next core come up and continue a high-level of play, we need to take advantage of the opportunity we have. If we move some of our high level prospects for a top 6 player in the age range of 23-27, then we need to do it, especially if it wouldn't require Thomas IMO.

I'd rather not move some others, but I'd include them for the right, realistic player.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

I jumped over to Habs boards to see what they were thinking last night and was reading their trades boards. They REALLY like Thomas. Plus they REALLY over value Pacioretty. Some are expecting Patches to return Kessel style trade. I don't see how that's possible considering how much better Phil is than Pacioretty. They at least agree that their team matches well with ours as far as trade partners and that their team needs a retool/rebuild, but their wants are simply unrealistic. I don't see how Doug Armstrong agrees to move Thomas without it being a bonafide top 6 center coming back, if not higher value. I have an overwhelming feeling he'll be with the Blues full time next year, regardless of if they sign Stastny.

EDIT: After watching the Habs last night as well. I'd much rather trade for Gallagher (1st choice) or Galchenyuk (2nd choice) over Pacioretty and I was one of the guys here wanting Patches. Gallagher looks like he'd fit perfectly on the 2nd or 3rd lines. I think Galchenyuk would just benefit from a change of scenery.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Pacioretty won't be cheap, he's one of the more consistent 30+ goal scorers out there.