Blues 2024 Off-Season Trade Proposals Thread

[Linkens Mastery]

Zadorov is trying to get 6x6. No appetite for that deal at all.

 

[stl76]

Nope I didn’t. List the teams that will do what he’s talking about right now.

Will be funny to see you struggle with this.

You’re still missing the point.

Yeah, our bandaid solution contracts seem to age very poorly. I'd rather use the cap room to take on some 1-year dead money from a contending team with a prospect like Scott Morrow attached. Handcuffing ourselves to bad money into our next window is worse than a lateral move.

The bolded is the most important part IMO. I think the Blues should be focusing on drafting/developing young players in a good environment rather than papering over perceived current roster holes. If they can do this by taking on a short term bad contract with a positive value asset, then that’s great, but the how is not as important as the why.

Would have been happy to tell you this and hear your thoughts if you cared to ask. But you seem more focused on rushing in and trying to win some weird internet point.

 

[The Note]

Zadorov is trying to get 6x6. No appetite for that deal at all.

Yikes

 

[Brockon]

That's just gross...

Zadorov is probably a low end #4, but more likely a 5/6 guy, who plays a style I love but...

He's going to want a raise on the 3.75 he made this year.

Even if you offer him 4x5, I can't see that being the winning bid as a UFA. Unless he opts to give Vancouver a discount for term on a team he likes that is on the upswing for something to the effect of 3.5m x 6 years (term with a chance to win as a 29 year old could be more important than dollar value, providing he got trade protection).

Can't say that I like any deal we offer Zadorov that stands a chance of getting accepted. It's going to require either an overpay, more term commitment or possibly both for him to wear the note. I could probably stomach a 5m x 2 year deal, but that's not a smart use of our cap nor is it in Zadorov's best interests if he wants to either win or maximize his career earnings (estimated 20.5m thus far).

 

[Blueston]

I mentioned elsewhere that I think we shouild be looking out for undervalued d around league. guy who could be available that fits description is timothy liljegren. he has been whipping boy for so long in toronto it's hard to remember he just turned 25 couple weeks ago. he has decent size and skill but seemingly struggles to put it all together, but how much of that is situational? i think he is guy who will benefit from getting out of toronto. i could see him, a prospect (decent but not one of their top guys cowan or minten or knies) and their 1st in deal for buchy, as they look to build team that fits berube. or maybe we deal them back their 2nd for him straight up, i'm just speculating. and maybe he never blossoms, but maybe he gets out of crosshairs of leaf fans and becomes solid top 4 (or better) d somewhere else.

 

[stl76]

I mentioned elsewhere that I think we shouild be looking out for undervalued d around league. guy who could be available that fits description is timothy liljegren. he has been whipping boy for so long in toronto it's hard to remember he just turned 25 couple weeks ago. he has decent size and skill but seemingly struggles to put it all together, but how much of that is situational? i think he is guy who will benefit from getting out of toronto. i could see him, a prospect (decent but not one of their top guys cowan or minten or knies) and their 1st in deal for buchy, as they look to build team that fits berube. or maybe we deal them back their 3rd for him straight up, i'm just speculating. and maybe he never blossoms, but maybe he gets out of crosshairs of leaf fans and becomes solid top 4 (or better) d somewhere else.

Personally, I would hard pass on Liljegren. Soft as butter offensive dman without much offense. He was brutal in the series against Boston this year, couldn’t handle the forecheck and got lost in the dzone a lot. He’s fine as a sheltered bottom pairing guy, but don’t think he is capable for handling 2nd pairing minutes. Don’t see untapped potential with him, but that’s just my opinion.

 

[Mike Liut]

I think Zadorov would do wonders for this team. I’d easily go 5x5 if we can move out one of Krug / Faulk / Leddy….or 2 of them would be even better. Why can’t Zadorov play with Parayko? I think they’d be a great pairing.

 

[Blueston]

Personally, I would hard pass on Liljegren. Soft as butter offensive dman without much offense. He was brutal in the series against Boston this year, couldn’t handle the forecheck and got lost in the dzone a lot. He’s fine as a sheltered bottom pairing guy, but don’t think he is capable for handling 2nd pairing minutes. Don’t see untapped potential with him, but that’s just my opinion.

you may be right, but that also sounds like guy battling with his confidence and not feeling secure in his role. maybe that's all he has, but i suspect there is more there.

 

[oPlaiD]

Zadorov is trying to get 6x6. No appetite for that deal at all.

This isn't a comment on the valuation of this potential deal, but I think most fans are unprepared for what the cap starting to rise again means for free agents. I expect most deals signed this offseason are going to leave fans surprised.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

This isn't a comment on the valuation of this potential deal, but I think most fans are unprepared for what the cap starting to rise again means for free agents. I expect most deals signed this offseason are going to leave fans surprised.

Agreed, especially with the place we are in our Reimagining. This year will most likely be a bad time to get in the free agent market.

 

[Blueston]

This isn't a comment on the valuation of this potential deal, but I think most fans are unprepared for what the cap starting to rise again means for free agents. I expect most deals signed this offseason are going to leave fans surprised.

teams are going to regret almost all of the fa contracts this summer. every time there is bit of cap jump some teams get stupid.

 

[Majorityof1]

yes, when you are trying to win it's hard to develop young d. but when you are kinda crappy, you have more opportunity to develop young d. and it's hard to find and develop them. i'm not suggesting this should be our only strategy, but it's one we haven't been able to implement and i think it should be area of priority at this point in our rebuilding cycle.

You think it hasn't been a priority? "Find guys who will be awesome for low cost" is like when you ask for stock advice and someone says "Buy low, sell high". No shit. We have brought in younger guys who may blossom, we just haven't hit or developed them. That was what Vrana and Kap were.

Imagine if I came into the draft thread where you were talking in depth about prospects you like, and I'm all, "Pavelski, Benn and Stone were all 6th round or later. We shouldn't worry so much about who we grab with our first, let's just draft guys like that later in the draft." Hoping your scouts (pro or amateur) either kill it and/or get extremely lucky is not a strategy or a priority at all. Its something you always hope happens but should not plan for.

 

[Blueston]

You think it hasn't been a priority? "Find guys who will be awesome for low cost" is like when you ask for stock advice and someone says "Buy low, sell high". No shit. We have brought in younger guys who may blossom, we just haven't hit or developed them. That was what Vrana and Kap were.

Imagine if I came into the draft thread where you were talking in depth about prospects you like, and I'm all, "Pavelski, Benn and Stone were all 6th round or later. We shouldn't worry so much about who we grab with our first, let's just draft guys like that later in the draft." Hoping your scouts (pro or amateur) either kill it and/or get extremely lucky is not a strategy or a priority at all. Its something you always hope happens but should not plan for.

disagree. when was last time we acquired a 23-25 yo d in a trade and penciled him into lineup? we haven't been willing to let young d play through their mistakes and get increased responsibility. dunn and walman both got more opportunity once they left? why? bc we were contender and didn't thing we could afford to give them more than sheltered roles. i'm saying that we should prioritize this. we should be identifying these guys and giving them opportunity. have we been doing this? who did we do this for? or are you just being contrarian?

 

[Majorityof1]

disagree. when was last time we acquired a 23-25 yo d in a trade and penciled him into lineup? we haven't been willing to let young d play through their mistakes and get increased responsibility. dunn and walman both got more opportunity once they left? why? bc we were contender and didn't thing we could afford to give them more than sheltered roles. i'm saying that we should prioritize this. we should be identifying these guys and giving them opportunity. have we been doing this? who did we do this for? or are you just being contrarian?

I agree we haven't been giving them space to develop. But we have tried to get under the radar guys from overseas or buy low change of scenery trades. They just don't pan out so they aren't memorable, and we've always though of ourselves as a contender so we haven't given them an auto roster spot.

As examples. they are a bit older, but I named Vrana and Kapanen as guys we tried to buy low on at 26. And gave them roster spots. We just signed a bunch of sweedish guys we are hoping blossom. They aren't signing these players saying, I hope they are AHL fodder. They are saying, I hope they can come in and suprise some people. Its not memorable because they don't.

 

[Blueston]

I agree we haven't been giving them space to develop. But we have tried to get under the radar guys from overseas or buy low change of scenery trades. They just don't pan out so they aren't memorable, and we've always though of ourselves as a contender so we haven't given them an auto roster spot.

As examples. they are a bit older, but I named Vrana and Kapanen as guys we tried to buy low on at 26. And gave them roster spots. We just signed a bunch of sweedish guys we are hoping blossom. They aren't signing these players saying, I hope they are AHL fodder. They are saying, I hope they can come in and suprise some people. Its not memorable because they don't.

what i bolded in above is i think key. we didn't feel like we could afford to give d room to develop. now we can. so we should be prioritizing that opportunity. when was last time we claimed a d on waivers that team tried to sneak down? that is how florida got forlsing. that is type of move i am talking about. or giving guy like walman room to play through his growing pains. we didn't feel like we could do that when he was here, but we can now for next guy like him. that is what i'm talking about. i'm not saying it's easy to identify who is gonna be forsling and who is gonna be calle rosen, but that now is time for us to devote more resources to this than we have done in the past now that we aren't good and can afford the ups and downs of young d as they develop in a way we couldn't 3-5 years ago. none of which i thought was a controversial idea, but you live and you learn.

 

[WeWentBlues]

disagree. when was last time we acquired a 23-25 yo d in a trade and penciled him into lineup? we haven't been willing to let young d play through their mistakes and get increased responsibility. dunn and walman both got more opportunity once they left? why? bc we were contender and didn't thing we could afford to give them more than sheltered roles. i'm saying that we should prioritize this. we should be identifying these guys and giving them opportunity. have we been doing this? who did we do this for? or are you just being contrarian?

Maybe not acquired via trade but in 2015-2016 Eddie and Parayko had their NHL debuts at age 22 and played alot for two rookies on a team that went to the WCF. Had they been acquired via trade the offseason prior, I think the outcome would have been the same.

Agree with what you are saying though. We didn't really manage Dunn or Walman properly. In hindsight, Dunn should have been protected and Krug exposed. I'm not sure who Seattle takes in that scenario.

 

[stl76]

what i bolded in above is i think key. we didn't feel like we could afford to give d room to develop. now we can. so we should be prioritizing that opportunity. when was last time we claimed a d on waivers that team tried to sneak down? that is how florida got forlsing. that is type of move i am talking about. or giving guy like walman room to play through his growing pains. we didn't feel like we could do that when he was here, but we can now for next guy like him. that is what i'm talking about. i'm not saying it's easy to identify who is gonna be forsling and who is gonna be calle rosen, but that now is time for us to devote more resources to this than we have done in the past now that we aren't good and can afford the ups and downs of young d as they develop in a way we couldn't 3-5 years ago. none of which i thought was a controversial idea, but you live and you learn.

So you’re saying we should feed Perunovich more minutes?

 

[Majorityof1]

what i bolded in above is i think key. we didn't feel like we could afford to give d room to develop. now we can. so we should be prioritizing that opportunity. when was last time we claimed a d on waivers that team tried to sneak down? that is how florida got forlsing. that is type of move i am talking about. or giving guy like walman room to play through his growing pains. we didn't feel like we could do that when he was here, but we can now for next guy like him. that is what i'm talking about. i'm not saying it's easy to identify who is gonna be forsling and who is gonna be calle rosen, but that now is time for us to devote more resources to this than we have done in the past now that we aren't good and can afford the ups and downs of young d as they develop in a way we couldn't 3-5 years ago. none of which i thought was a controversial idea, but you live and you learn.

I'm not saying its controversial. I'm saying its inane. Of course it would be nice to do that, but you can't just snap your fingers and make it happen.

Your original post did not mention development. It specifically mentioned targeting and acquiring players other teams overlook I mentioned development first. Seems the goal posts are getting shifted. Like I said, I agree we should spend more time developing young guys aside from the couple annonted few.

We are in a re-(insert preferred root). Army has already said that means we are targeting guys that fit our window which is the age you want, 22-26. So I'm just not sure how this is a new thought. Of course we want to grab and develop the next Forsling.

Listing the names of a few guys who went cheap to and are now top 4s doesn't help to identify the next one. Its a great deal of great scouting, a great deal of luck and a great deal of good coaching and development. We either have that or we don't. I just don't see where saying let's prioritize finding the next Forsling gets us. Of course let's try that but how? Who?

 

[Blueston]

So you’re saying we should feed Perunovich more minutes?

i'm saying we should be exploring all avenues so we don't have to play peru more minutes!

 

[Blueston]

I'm not saying its controversial. I'm saying its inane. Of course it would be nice to do that, but you can't just snap your fingers and make it happen.

Your original post did not mention development. It specifically mentioned targeting and acquiring players other teams overlook I mentioned development first. Seems the goal posts are getting shifted. Like I said, I agree we should spend more time developing young guys aside from the couple annonted few.

We are in a re-(insert preferred root). Army has already said that means we are targeting guys that fit our window which is the age you want, 22-26. So I'm just not sure how this is a new thought. Of course we want to grab and develop the next Forsling.

Listing the names of a few guys who went cheap to and are now top 4s doesn't help to identify the next one. Its a great deal of great scouting, a great deal of luck and a great deal of good coaching and development. We either have that or we don't. I just don't see where saying let's prioritize finding the next Forsling gets us. Of course let's try that but how? Who?

i'm glad i was able to leave enough unsaid in my post that you were able to create your own straw man to argue with.

 

[TurgPavs]

Vancouver is going to have 41+ million in cap space this offseason, I really cant see Zadorov not resigning with the Nucks.

The Team that you gotta keep an eye on is Carolina. That team is going to lose from really solid players in UFA.
It will be very interesting to see if Skeji hits UFA, and if he does, that should absolutely be a guy the Blues jump in on.

 

[Blanick]

Vancouver is going to have 41+ million in cap space this offseason, I really cant see Zadorov not resigning with the Nucks.

The Team that you gotta keep an eye on is Carolina. That team is going to lose from really solid players in UFA.
It will be very interesting to see if Skeji hits UFA, and if he does, that should absolutely be a guy the Blues jump in on.

The problem is that Skjei is going to be the premiere defenseman available this summer and with the cap going up a bidding war is almost inevitable. I could easily see someone offering him something north of 8 mil aav.

 

[Reality Czech]

Maybe not acquired via trade but in 2015-2016 Eddie and Parayko had their NHL debuts at age 22 and played alot for two rookies on a team that went to the WCF. Had they been acquired via trade the offseason prior, I think the outcome would have been the same.

Agree with what you are saying though. We didn't really manage Dunn or Walman properly. In hindsight, Dunn should have been protected and Krug exposed. I'm not sure who Seattle takes in that scenario.

I think one risky assumption people make is that the players we lost would put up the exact same numbers here that they did with their new team. It's unlikely Dunn would ever get top pairing minutes here, or at least as much free reign as he got in Seattle. He has some skill but I'm not sure he's a true top pair D that you can win with.

Regarding Walman, he's done well playing alongside Seider but I'm not convinced he's a true difference maker. Can't help but wonder if the biggest reason Detroit missed the playoffs is because they only have one really good defenseman on their roster. Walman would still be a 4-6 d-man on this team.

However it is true that the Blues' depth in recent years has been both a blessing and a curse. On one hand, it has helped us be very competitive for the better part of 10-15 years but on the other hand with so much depth you inevitably lose guys that might be able to contribute to your team. Both players were given opportunities to impress here, but sometimes a player needs a change of scenery to reach his full potential.

 

[The Note]

Why can’t Zadorov play with Parayko?

Because he’s a bottom pair defenseman who’d get eaten alive playing the minutes/situations that the Blues play Parayko in.

 

[Frenzy31]

I think one risky assumption people make is that the players we lost would put up the exact same numbers here that they did with their new team. It's unlikely Dunn would ever get top pairing minutes here, or at least as much free reign as he got in Seattle. He has some skill but I'm not sure he's a true top pair D that you can win with.

Regarding Walman, he's done well playing alongside Seider but I'm not convinced he's a true difference maker. Can't help but wonder if the biggest reason Detroit missed the playoffs is because they only have one really good defenseman on their roster. Walman would still be a 4-6 d-man on this team.

However it is true that the Blues' depth in recent years has been both a blessing and a curse. On one hand, it has helped us be very competitive for the better part of 10-15 years but on the other hand with so much depth you inevitably lose guys that might be able to contribute to your team. Both players were given opportunities to impress here, but sometimes a player needs a change of scenery to reach his full potential.

Walman is their version of Carlo Colaiacovo. He played with Pie, but wasn't a top pairing dman.