Blues 2024 Off-Season Trade Proposals Thread

[Mike Liut]

I’m wondering if the Maple Leafs could be a draft trade partner, sending us their 23rd and minor pieces in exchange for Buchnevich, who fits the style Berube will want them to play. They have tons of money potentially coming off the books after next season (Tavares), and it allows them to seriously consider trading Marner for D help.

I think it only makes sense for the Blues of a player they highly covet (perhaps Solberg?) is still there after pick 22. It also creates much more cap space for DA to work with to sign veteran stop-gaps to keep the team competitive, per his outlook/strategy. My ideal 1st round draft is using our first 2nd rounder and 16 to trade up a few spots to take one of the high d-men (Yakemchuk would be my target), then executing the trade above. 1% chance either of those happen, but it would be an exciting 1st round!

I’d want more than the 23rd pick and a couple minor pieces.

 

[WeWentBlues]

5x5

I'd definitely be interested at that price.

 

[Blueston]

I'd definitely be interested at that price.

too much money and too much term. zadorov is a 3rd pairing guy. pretty good one, but he isn't somebody we are gonna want in our top 4 for 5 years.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

5x5

That’s a horrible contract for a third pairing defenseman. And whichever team gives that to him would regret it

 

[PocketNines]

How would you compare Lindstein to Esa Lindell @STL fan in MN ?

 

[sfvega]

Yeah, our bandaid solution contracts seem to age very poorly. I'd rather use the cap room to take on some 1-year dead money from a contending team with a prospect like Scott Morrow attached. Handcuffing ourselves to bad money into our next window is worse than a lateral move.

 

[WeWentBlues]

Yeah, our bandaid solution contracts seem to age very poorly. I'd rather use the cap room to take on some 1-year dead money from a contending team with a prospect like Scott Morrow attached. Handcuffing ourselves to bad money into our next window is worse than a lateral move.

I'm fine with that. But commit all the way. Identify the core and trade away everything else.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

I want absolutely no part of Zadorov for 5x5.

 

[BlueDream]

Yeah, our bandaid solution contracts seem to age very poorly. I'd rather use the cap room to take on some 1-year dead money from a contending team with a prospect like Scott Morrow attached. Handcuffing ourselves to bad money into our next window is worse than a lateral move.

Of course you’d prefer that, since it’s not realistic.

What team is giving us that level of prospect for a player with one year left? That doesn’t make any sense and isn’t going to happen.

 

[stl76]

Of course you’d prefer that, since it’s not realistic.

What team is giving us that level of prospect for a player with one year left? That doesn’t make any sense and isn’t going to happen.

You're missing the point of the post.

 

[sfvega]

Of course you’d prefer that, since it’s not realistic.

What team is giving us that level of prospect for a player with one year left? That doesn’t make any sense and isn’t going to happen.

If we're talking about things that don't make any sense from another team's standpoint, I don't want to hear the words Brady or Tkachuk in this thread again.

Morrow is a good prospect, but not a great one. Doesn't have to be Morrow, which is why I said someone like. Morrow himself is probably not worth a 1st right now. Hell, I wouldn't trade a first for him given that later 1sts would probably get a more fitting D to our needs. But a team like Carolina (or Toronto or Edmonton) are up against it. Carolina in particular is in a big cap crunch this offseason, and taking on a year of bad money (or two years of below average money) is at a premium. Arizona did it for years in exchange for a 3rd here, a 2nd there, a 2nd and 3rd here. And now there isn't a team eager to eat that money as they're in a new market, although Chicago could probably afford to eat some space if they were so inclined.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Morrow probably would be worth a late 1st. He's a recent enough early 2nd that has developed into a likely NHL player. For a team to trade an asset like that, they'd be doing so to get rid of a horribad contract.

 

[BlueDream]

You're missing the point of the post.

Nope I didn’t. List the teams that will do what he’s talking about right now.

Will be funny to see you struggle with this.

 

[WeWentBlues]

Nope I didn’t. List the teams that will do what he’s talking about right now.

Will be funny to see you struggle with this.

So you're saying teams don't ever give up futures to get out of bad contracts?

OP is not saying Blues are going to dump players with 1 year left and get a teams top prospect.

 

[WeWentBlues]

I don't think the landscape of the league has changed that much since the flat cap era in 2020 when the Carolina Hurricanes received a 1st round pick (13th overall) to take on Patrick Marleau's contract that had 1 year remaining.

There are going to be a few desperate teams out there, even with the higher cap.

 

[Dr Robot]

We need to sign 6 players and have 15 mil to do it. We can take cap dumps if need be. The problem is that Utah/Chi/SJ are all open for business also. I think we could/will pick up a player or two who are still decent just overpaid like kappy and vrana. I don’t think we will be getting anything close to a second rounder back to do it. Too many other teams will do that and are in better position to take worse contracts for cheap.

 

[BlueDream]

So you're saying teams don't ever give up futures to get out of bad contracts?

OP is not saying Blues are going to dump players with 1 year left and get a teams top prospect.

I’m aware of that.

And no, teams aren’t giving us a top prospect for a player with one year left. If they’re giving up a really good prospect, it’s going to be a horrible contract.

I don't think the landscape of the league has changed that much since the flat cap era in 2020 when the Carolina Hurricanes received a 1st round pick (13th overall) to take on Patrick Marleau's contract that had 1 year remaining.

There are going to be a few desperate teams out there, even with the higher cap.

“The landscape hasn’t changed” aside from the cap going up. Okay…

If you guys think this is realistic then give examples of what teams will be doing this. List the names of the players with those contracts, and the prospects that could be attached. I’d love to see it.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I don't think the landscape of the league has changed that much since the flat cap era in 2020 when the Carolina Hurricanes received a 1st round pick (13th overall) to take on Patrick Marleau's contract that had 1 year remaining.

There are going to be a few desperate teams out there, even with the higher cap.

With the cap jumping this off season I doubt any team will be desperate enough to to add a high prospect or draft pick to a bad player contract for a single year. Toronto also had 3 players making 10+ mil and were utterly desperate for capspace. I sure wouldn't be adding our 1st, Bolduc, or anyone we have higher on our prospects list to get out of Krug if he only had one year left.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

We need to sign 6 players and have 15 mil to do it. We can take cap dumps if need be. The problem is that Utah/Chi/SJ are all open for business also. I think we could/will pick up a player or two who are still decent just overpaid like kappy and vrana. I don’t think we will be getting anything close to a second rounder back to do it. Too many other teams will do that and are in better position to take worse contracts for cheap.

I think we'd only need to sign 2-4 players, Kessel and Bolduc should make the team out of camp and it sounds like the blues are going to give every chance to Dvorsky to make the team out of camp. I wouldn't be surprised if they used some AHL players with NHL experience in the Bottom 6/3rd pairing next year instead of going out to sign ufas.

Wouldn't surprise me to see players like Gaudette and/or Rosen as bench players or bottom of the lineup players if they can't find any decent cheap depth. Plus I don't see them big name hunting unless it's in the trade market.

 

[bleedblue1223]

And when Toronto traded their 1st to dump Marleau, they weren't expecting it to be 13th overall.

 

[Blueston]

I think we'd only need to sign 2-4 players, Kessel and Bolduc should make the team out of camp and it sounds like the blues are going to give every chance to Dvorsky to make the team out of camp. I wouldn't be surprised if they used some AHL players with NHL experience in the Bottom 6/3rd pairing next year instead of going out to sign ufas.

Wouldn't surprise me to see players like Gaudette and/or Rosen as bench players or bottom of the lineup players if they can't find any decent cheap depth. Plus I don't see them big name hunting unless it's in the trade market.

Looking at the 8 teams that made 2nd round, by my count Dallas was only one with 3 homegrown d in top 4. Everyone else had 2 or less. Maybe my count is a bit off, as some teams top 4 is more fluid, but the point is that nobody drafts all their top 4D.

And while some like Petro or Eckholm were high profile acquisitions, many like montour or forsling or lindgren were acquired as small pieces before they were established. And that is what I want us to do. Identify guys who lose waiver exemption, guys who teams aren’t ready to pay, or guys that are just developing slowly. Most of these guys won’t pan out, but we are crappy team so we can give them ice time. I don’t know if guy we want is Broberg or jiricek or boqvist or Schneider or wallinder or who, but that is what we should be trying to find, because even if we draft d in 1st this year and he hits, it’s likely at least 3-4 years before he really helps us. If he ever does. Let’s find someone else’s Walman or Miko.

 

[TurgPavs]

Do KHL games not cause wear and tear? Why are only NHL games counted?

While I’d concede that the NHL is more physical than the KHL and has an 82 game schedule vs 68, I’d argue that the impact of Buch playing his 18-20 year old seasons in the KHL vs AHL/NHL isn’t really going to result in a significant reduction of wear and tear from then to now. Some sort of marginal reduction in wear and tear, sure, I guess, but Father Time is undefeated.

And what the superstars of the game are doing at the top doesn’t really change the overall graph The Note posted or how it would likely apply to a good but not great forward like Buch.

The issue I have, as the graph indicates, the decline in points, with 500+ minute forwards, shows that the drop off starts before a player hits 25 years old.

You look at the graph, scoring between 24/25 - 33/34 is going to drop to roughly 90-93% of their peak seasons.

Again I have zero problems with the Blues signing him to a 5 or 6 year deal.

 

[Brian39]

“The landscape hasn’t changed” aside from the cap going up. Okay…

Yes, the cap used to go up as well. it consistently went up leading up to (and including) the year the Leafs gave up a 1st to move Marleau.

People are acting like the cap is skyrocketing by some unprecedented margin this summer, but the reality is that we are finally just getting back to business as usual. The cap is increasing by 5%, not a massive or unprecedented number. The CBA extension created a mechanism specifically designed to prevent a 1 year cap explosion.

In the 7 seasons between the move to a 50/50 HRR split and the pandemic-flat-cap, there were 3 seasons where the cap increased by 6% or more. In the other 4 seasons, the cap increased by a minimum of 2.24%. All told, the cap increased by $21.5M from year 1 of the 50/50 HRR split and year 8 (the last year before the pandemic flattened the cap). That's 35.8% overall growth in 7 years.

Since the pandemic, the cap has increased by 0%, 0%, 1.23%, 1.21%, and now 5%. All told, the cap has increased by just 7.6% in the last 5 years.

When the Leafs signed Marleau, the cap was $75M. It increased to $79.5M for the 2nd year of his deal, and then to $81.5M for the 3rd year of his deal. That's a $6.5M increase in 2 years (an 8.66% increase from the cap as it existed in year 1 of Marleau's deal). That's more cap growth than we've seen in the last 5 years in the NHL.

No, the cap going up this summer does not put cap teams in a better position than they were at the time of the Marleau trade. It is fantastic that we are finally getting back to cap growth instead of the flat cap of the last half decade. But cap crunches aren't going away.

 

[Majorityof1]

Looking at the 8 teams that made 2nd round, by my count Dallas was only one with 3 homegrown d in top 4. Everyone else had 2 or less. Maybe my count is a bit off, as some teams top 4 is more fluid, but the point is that nobody drafts all their top 4D.

And while some like Petro or Eckholm were high profile acquisitions, many like montour or forsling or lindgren were acquired as small pieces before they were established. And that is what I want us to do. Identify guys who lose waiver exemption, guys who teams aren’t ready to pay, or guys that are just developing slowly. Most of these guys won’t pan out, but we are crappy team so we can give them ice time. I don’t know if guy we want is Broberg or jiricek or boqvist or Schneider or wallinder or who, but that is what we should be trying to find, because even if we draft d in 1st this year and he hits, it’s likely at least 3-4 years before he really helps us. If he ever does. Let’s find someone else’s Walman or Miko.

Far easier said than done. I know you know this. But "find the diamond in the rough" is not a good strategy to solely rely on. There is a reason these players go for cheap, 31 other teams underestimated them.

Another thing, is finding guys like that, a lot of time is putting them in the right situation to develop/thrive as much as finding the right player. We have not been that situation . We have had hard nose coaches more concerned about winning than giving g a young D room. That's why we have out share if guys who blossomed elsewhere. Hopefully that changes with Bannister/Weber. Time will tell.

 

[Blueston]

Far easier said than done. I know you know this. But "find the diamond in the rough" is not a good strategy to solely rely on. There is a reason these players go for cheap, 31 other teams underestimated them.

Another thing, is finding guys like that, a lot of time is putting them in the right situation to develop/thrive as much as finding the right player. We have not been that situation . We have had hard nose coaches more concerned about winning than giving g a young D room. That's why we have out share if guys who blossomed elsewhere. Hopefully that changes with Bannister/Weber. Time will tell.

yes, when you are trying to win it's hard to develop young d. but when you are kinda crappy, you have more opportunity to develop young d. and it's hard to find and develop them. i'm not suggesting this should be our only strategy, but it's one we haven't been able to implement and i think it should be area of priority at this point in our rebuilding cycle.