Blues 2024 Off-Season Trade Proposals Thread

[Majorityof1]

he's saying that they know we won't be very good next year. he is committed to the process and they aren't going to go out and try to shortcut it this summer. which i think you understand. we all love to rightfully mock them because they won't say rebuild, but what they have laid out is a measured rebuild that aims to shorten the downtime by avoiding bottoming out. 3 years from now the roster will have been almost entirely turned over and we will have a bunch of youngish guys in key roles, as you would expect in a rebuild.

that is basically what army has repeatedly said. now whether that will yield us enough good enough players to be a contender is open question, but it's not an unreasonable plan when you want to avoid the risks that come with truly tanking. i get why some folks are not sold on this plan, because finding stars is much harder when you are picking 10-20 than top 5, but i look at what so many teams have had to gone through once they decided whether to tear it down and i think finding our mcavoy and pasta sounds like perhaps a better path than hoping our eichel and dahlin can get us back to contending status.

I'd need to see more of the full context, but this implies we won't really be making moves at all. We won't be trying to move Buchnevich, we won't be moving Krug. We won't be going after a 2C on a short term contract. Maybe that is not what he meant, again, I'd need more context. But based on what he said, that is what it sounds like, and that is at odds with a recalibration or whatever.

I agree with the do not tank, but don't sell the farm to contend plan. But that doesn't mean sit on your f***ing hands. It involves doing something this off-season. This past year was a big f***ing waste, in part because we have done nothing since last trade deadline.

 

[Blueston]

I'd need to see more of the full context, but this implies we won't really be making moves at all. We won't be trying to move Buchnevich, we won't be moving Krug. We won't be going after a 2C on a short term contract. Maybe that is not what he meant, again, I'd need more context. But based on what he said, that is what it sounds like, and that is at odds with a recalibration or whatever.

I agree with the do not tank, but don't sell the farm to contend plan. But that doesn't mean sit on your f***ing hands. It involves doing something this off-season. This past year was a big f***ing waste, in part because we have done nothing since last trade deadline.

i think you are reading far too much into what he said. he is saying we are sticking with our plan and aren't taking shortcuts. he isn't saying we won't deal any players or try to fill holes, just that we ain't going to be out there looking to make big acquisition splash. he is trying to keep those expectations in check.

 

[Majorityof1]

i think you are reading far too much into what he said. he is saying we are sticking with our plan and aren't taking shortcuts. he isn't saying we won't deal any players or try to fill holes, just that we ain't going to be out there looking to make big acquisition splash. he is trying to keep those expectations in check.

That could be. I don't see anyone on here expecting that big splash though. So maybe that is a disconnect between us and the general fan base. But when he says things will be quiet relative to my expectations, that is doing nothing.

 

[Xerloris]

That could be. I don't see anyone on here expecting that big splash though. So maybe that is a disconnect between us and the general fan base. But when he says things will be quiet relative to my expectations, that is doing nothing.

Aside from a select few people here most of us are very far from the general fanbase so when you see press conferences where they say dumb shit, that wasn't intended for us, it was intended for the people that scream shoot all game.

 

[Blueston]

That could be. I don't see anyone on here expecting that big splash though. So maybe that is a disconnect between us and the general fan base. But when he says things will be quiet relative to my expectations, that is doing nothing.

think of the guys here that half of us have on ignore. those are the folks he is telling to chill out.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Reaction from comments like that is what sort of bugs me about this board at times. The intended audience for those comments are those that listen to local sports talk radio, it's the more casual fans that want them to acquire stars for peanuts or think we can sign a handful of free agents that will magically turn us into a contender. It's important for Stillman to acknowledge that, that's not happening. And to the people here that want to burn it to the ground, that's also not happening.

We'll make some moves, and Army will explore getting rid of expensive pieces that don't fit, but a lot of the change for the opening night roster compared to this year's opening night roster will be internal. Kessel playing more minutes, Bolduc getting top 9, possible top 6 minutes. Maybe another young player forces an opportunity.

Stillman's comments are basically, we aren't making moves this summer to specifically be a playoff team for next season. If a move happens, it will be for the long-term view, but at the same time, it's not a burn it down situation.

 

[MissouriMook]

I wouldn’t be pissed if we managed to get Hague and Karlsson out of Vegas in the offseason.

 

[Memento]

Honestly wouldn't mind trying for Kotkaniemi, if he's bought out by the Hurricanes. He's a solid enough middle-six center, still very young (only twenty-three).

 

[Majorityof1]

Reaction from comments like that is what sort of bugs me about this board at times. The intended audience for those comments are those that listen to local sports talk radio, it's the more casual fans that want them to acquire stars for peanuts or think we can sign a handful of free agents that will magically turn us into a contender. It's important for Stillman to acknowledge that, that's not happening. And to the people here that want to burn it to the ground, that's also not happening.

We'll make some moves, and Army will explore getting rid of expensive pieces that don't fit, but a lot of the change for the opening night roster compared to this year's opening night roster will be internal. Kessel playing more minutes, Bolduc getting top 9, possible top 6 minutes. Maybe another young player forces an opportunity.

Stillman's comments are basically, we aren't making moves this summer to specifically be a playoff team for next season. If a move happens, it will be for the long-term view, but at the same time, it's not a burn it down situation.

Funny, the thing that bothers me about this board at times are reactions where a poster makes snide comments without quoting the person to which they are referring. Hmm, to each their own.

As to the scenario you lay out that you absolutely with 100% authority know will happen, that would be a failure. Not moving Buchnevich, not bringing in a stop gap to 2C to give the kids another solid center to play with, that is a failure in my opinion. It would be another do nothing off-season like last year. We aren't going to get better by continually picking around 15th and doing nothing else imo.

 

[Drubilly]

Honestly wouldn't mind trying for Kotkaniemi, if he's bought out by the Hurricanes. He's a solid enough middle-six center, still very young (only twenty-three).

Why would Carolina buy him out? Honest question, no sly passive aggressive bs.

 

[Memento]

Why would Carolina buy him out? Honest question, no sly passive aggressive bs.

Heard from Carolina fans that they're interested in re-signing Kuznetsov and possibly Guentzel. Kotkaniemi was listed as a name to potentially buy out, due to his contract. Not saying it happens for certain, but if they do, I'd be all over it.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Why would Carolina buy him out? Honest question, no sly passive aggressive bs.

Because he's not good. His contract is terrible for what he brings, and I'd have minimal interest if he was bought out.

 

[Drubilly]

Heard from Carolina fans that they're interested in re-signing Kuznetsov and possibly Guentzel. Kotkaniemi was listed as a name to potentially buy out, due to his contract. Not saying it happens for certain, but if they do, I'd be all over it.

I’ve always thought the whole offer sheet scenario backfired on the Hurrah and they weren’t really interested in KK to begin with. I’d be happy to have him in the Note though.

PS, am I the only old ass rocker here that thinks of Judas Priest when folks refer to him as KK?

 

[bleedblue1223]

Funny, the thing that bothers me about this board at times are reactions where a poster makes snide comments without quoting the person to which they are referring. Hmm, to each their own.

As to the scenario you lay out that you absolutely with 100% authority know will happen, that would be a failure. Not moving Buchnevich, not bringing in a stop gap to 2C to give the kids another solid center to play with, that is a failure in my opinion. It would be another do nothing off-season like last year. We aren't going to get better by continually picking around 15th and doing nothing else imo.

I wasn't directing it directly at you, otherwise, I would've quoted you or made it very clear by tagging you in it. My comment can be applied to many posters.

Where did I say Buchnevich will for sure not be moved? I even said that we'll make some moves and explore getting rid of expensive pieces that don't fit. If Buchnevich doesn't fit our long-term plans, then Army will explore moving him. And while I want an upgrade at the #2C spot, it's not really going to be the thing that makes or breaks our season or long-term development.

 

[Memento]

Because he's not good. His contract is terrible for what he brings, and I'd have minimal interest if he was bought out.

He'd be a better buy-low candidate than Hayes was, and he'll only be twenty-four all of next season.

 

[Majorityof1]

I wasn't directing it directly at you, otherwise, I would've quoted you or made it very clear by tagging you in it. My comment can be applied to many posters.

Where did I say Buchnevich will for sure not be moved? I even said that we'll make some moves and explore getting rid of expensive pieces that don't fit. If Buchnevich doesn't fit our long-term plans, then Army will explore moving him. And while I want an upgrade at the #2C spot, it's not really going to be the thing that makes or breaks our season or long-term development.

Oh yea, of course.

Where did you say Buchnevich will not be moved? "...but a lot of the change for the opening night roster compared to this year's opening night roster will be internal. Kessel playing more minutes, Bolduc getting top 9, possible top 6 minutes." Are you saying Kessel playing bigger minutes is a bigger change than not having Buchnevich on the roster? By not listing a Buchnevich trade as one of the big changes, you strongly implied it would not happen through its omission. It's a bigger change by far than anything you actually listed.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Have we done "resurrect" yet? Because that's what I see this team as at what it could be. A resurrection with almost every player different than we won with in 2019 (Thomas and Binnington aside).

This is going to be a slow process; we have a lot of fat to trim, and we're banking on a lot of younger players as new pieces to the puzzle. But I believe we could resurrect this team from what we are, like the mythical phoenix.

rejigger

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I'd need to see more of the full context, but this implies we won't really be making moves at all. We won't be trying to move Buchnevich, we won't be moving Krug. We won't be going after a 2C on a short term contract. Maybe that is not what he meant, again, I'd need more context. But based on what he said, that is what it sounds like, and that is at odds with a recalibration or whatever.

I agree with the do not tank, but don't sell the farm to contend plan. But that doesn't mean sit on your f***ing hands. It involves doing something this off-season. This past year was a big f***ing waste, in part because we have done nothing since last trade deadline.

This is parsing an interview with the owner WAY too closely.

The front office isn't going to announce the details of their plan to us. It would be idiotic, since it would mean ceding negotiating leverage in future deals when the other party knows our priorities.

Can anyone really envision a future where the Blues don't make a big trade or two in the next calendar year (this offseason and/or next deadline)? Buchnevich isn't going to play out his contract with the Blues. They'll get a worthwhile asset or two for him. If they're resigned to being out of the playoffs next year, maybe there isn't as much urgency to move Krug (or Faulk) other than to make room for younger guys to play.

All of us on this forum who have followed the team for more than a few years know that Armstrong is annoyingly patient in negotiations for things like acquiring a top pairing defender (eventually Bouwmeester) or a top line Center (Schenn maybe, then ROR). Those were moves we all wanted done quickly, and eventually he made good deals (including offloading Lehtera which seemed like a miracle in the full context of that trade.

There is no cap crunch right now, so maybe we'll get impatient again with not seeing the next steps happening immediately. I'll be a bit surprised if they don't manage to acquire more draft capital before this draft, but I guess we'll see. Today, I fully expect next season to be a bottom 10 finish with the main joy of the season being watching young players break into the league.

I guess we'll see what they do at the coach position, but I don't see any miracles occurring there either.

 

[MissouriMook]

I still see a lot of people expecting a bottom 10 finish next season, and I just don’t think they are hearing what the front office has been saying the last few weeks. What they are saying is that they are “sticking to the plan”. I’ve heard nothing to suggest that “the plan” involves jettisoning talent for picks and non-NHL ready prospects this offseason.

From everything I’ve read and heard, I would expect a couple of moves designed to get us closer to contention, but not in a way that sacrifices sustainability. I expect that they will try to move a couple of older, underperforming players and try to bring in NHL level talent more age adjacent to the “new core”. While it is certainly possible that we move on from Buchnevich at or before the draft, it seems like the plan would be to replace him in free agency or target a package with a younger, ascending player in their mid-20s.

With the emergence of guys like Neighbours, Bolduc and Kessel, and given the current trajectory of a good chunk of the bottom of the league, I seriously doubt that this is a bottom 10 team even if we do nothing with the NHL roster this offseason other than replacing Kapanen and Scandella from within.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Something that would not surprise me if we see two trades at the Draft in the nature of....


Buch for Late 1st+Prospect/Younger roster player

and

Our 1st (and maybe our later 2nd) for a Young D-man between the ages of 20-23 that looks like a top 4 but has a chance of topping out as a top pair.

I don't see us picking 15/16 (depending on if Arizona) until one of the Defensemen falls like crazy.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Oh yea, of course.

Where did you say Buchnevich will not be moved? "...but a lot of the change for the opening night roster compared to this year's opening night roster will be internal. Kessel playing more minutes, Bolduc getting top 9, possible top 6 minutes." Are you saying Kessel playing bigger minutes is a bigger change than not having Buchnevich on the roster? By not listing a Buchnevich trade as one of the big changes, you strongly implied it would not happen through its omission. It's a bigger change by far than anything you actually listed.

Sure, if you purposely ignore a portion of my post, then yes I said something that I didn't say. I specifically said that Army will make some moves and that he'll explore moves with players that would fit Buchnevich's description.

 

[Xerloris]

He'd be a better buy-low candidate than Hayes was, and he'll only be twenty-four all of next season.

I'm not sure he'd be better than Hayes in the position we use Hayes for and he's not good enough to be a 2nd line C.

 

[Thallis]

I still see a lot of people expecting a bottom 10 finish next season, and I just don’t think they are hearing what the front office has been saying the last few weeks. What they are saying is that they are “sticking to the plan”. I’ve heard nothing to suggest that “the plan” involves jettisoning talent for picks and non-NHL ready prospects this offseason.

From everything I’ve read and heard, I would expect a couple of moves designed to get us closer to contention, but not in a way that sacrifices sustainability. I expect that they will try to move a couple of older, underperforming players and try to bring in NHL level talent more age adjacent to the “new core”. While it is certainly possible that we move on from Buchnevich at or before the draft, it seems like the plan would be to replace him in free agency or target a package with a younger, ascending player in their mid-20s.

With the emergence of guys like Neighbours, Bolduc and Kessel, and given the current trajectory of a good chunk of the bottom of the league, I seriously doubt that this is a bottom 10 team even if we do nothing with the NHL roster this offseason other than replacing Kapanen and Scandella from within.

We really weren't that far off this season. We're 9 points away from the 10th pick despite being unnaturally healthy and 12-5 in OT and shootout. If one of our goalies regresses, we get a long injury to an important player, or just don't win basically every OT game, we're right in the thick of that area.

 

[Brian39]

Why would Carolina buy him out? Honest question, no sly passive aggressive bs.

One thing that wasn't mentioned, buyouts of younger guys are pretty damn team friendly. They would only have to pay him 1/3 of his remaining salary owed over twice the length of his contract. So it would save them $20M real dollars.

Yes, they would be paying him until 2036, but the check would be for just $835k per year and the cap hit each season would never exceed that number. They would essentially save $4M+ per year off the cap for the remainder of his contract in exchange for several seasons where they take an 'extra' $835k (when the cap will almost certainly be $100M+).

Pretty major cap savings.

 

[MissouriMook]

We really weren't that far off this season. We're 9 points away from the 10th pick despite being unnaturally healthy and 12-5 in OT and shootout. If one of our goalies regresses, we get a long injury to an important player, or just don't win basically every OT game, we're right in the thick of that area.

I think you’re discounting how immovably bad SJS, CHI, ANA, CBJ, MTL, ARI, OTT, SEA, CGY, and BUF are at this point, either from an inferior roster or organizational ineptitude standpoint. Then there are teams like PIT and MIN that might be reshuffling the deck next season and take a couple of steps back from their poor outcomes this season. It is really crowded at the bottom right now.

Even giving back some of the factors you point out, I just don’t see the roster we have now going into next season worse off than any of those teams without multiple catastrophic injuries. While not part of my original comments, I think bottom 10 is possible for any team if they get bit badly enough by the injury bug.