Blue Jacket's Playoff Success. Really?

[cjdv16]

Really? Getting KO'd in the first round by Pitt is a success? I seem to recall another "successful" team in a similar situation.

But lets laud CBJ as if they're the second coming for taking a very fragile (see NYR series) Pitt team to 6 games.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/32173/jackets-arent-a-one-hit-wonder-says-modin

Click to read more...

 

[seafoam]

They have a Vezina winning goalie in net, potential perennial Norris candidate, a top line center, and experienced veterans such a Hartnell and Horton.

Not to mention they are run by two guys who get major praise from the Canadian media (Davidson, Kekalainen). Look them up.

Meanwhile we just signed a "middle of the pack" goalie, have a questionable blueline, and our veterans are Vis, Carkner, and Boulton. Factor that in with the whole Snow/Wang stuff and we aren't going to get much love.

The only difference is we have John Tavares.

 

[rikker]

They have a Vezina winning goalie in net, potential perennial Norris candidate, a top line center, and experienced veterans such a Hartnell and Horton.

Not to mention they are run by two guys who get major praise from the Canadian media (Davidson, Kekalainen). Look them up.

Meanwhile we just signed a "middle of the pack" goalie, have a questionable blueline, and our veterans are Vis, Carkner, and Boulton. Factor that in with the whole Snow/Wang stuff and we aren't going to get much love.

The only difference is we have John Tavares.

i don't see what you see, sea...

you see... i think both teams should be seen as up and comers. i think we are a step behind them, but not as far as you make it seem.

don't forget to include JT, KO and Neilsen as vets. Grabner, Clutterbuck, Kulemin and Grabo as well.

i don't see any of their defencemen as perennial Norris candidates.

'Bob' may have won a Vezina, but his playoff numbers are very Nabbyish.

 

[seabass45]

Really? Getting KO'd in the first round by Pitt is a success? I seem to recall another "successful" team in a similar situation.

But lets laud CBJ as if they're the second coming for taking a very fragile (see NYR series) Pitt team to 6 games.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/32173/jackets-arent-a-one-hit-wonder-says-modin

I'm not that high on them but they're going in the right direction, didn't lose anyone significant, and have some nice young prospects on the way.

 

[boredmale]

potential perennial Norris candidate, a top line center

I am not sure I would consider Ryan Johansen a elite #1 center(to me is is the perfect #2 guy) and Murray is a few years away from hitting his potential

 

[seabass45]

I am not sure I would consider Ryan Johansen a elite #1 center(to me is is the perfect #2 guy) and Murray is a few years away from hitting his potential

Yeah, we have a ton of potential on D but who knows where they'll peak. That 2008 class of defensemen is ridiculous and I think it spoiled us on how d-men usually grow.

 

[IslesNorway]

CBJ gave come a long way in the last few years after a long time of bad drafting. They've built a nice team through trades and will do well for the next few years

 

[BroadwayJay*]

They have a Vezina winning goalie in net, potential perennial Norris candidate, a top line center, and experienced veterans such a Hartnell and Horton.

Not to mention they are run by two guys who get major praise from the Canadian media (Davidson, Kekalainen). Look them up.

Meanwhile we just signed a "middle of the pack" goalie, have a questionable blueline, and our veterans are Vis, Carkner, and Boulton. Factor that in with the whole Snow/Wang stuff and we aren't going to get much love.

The only difference is we have John Tavares.

I love Jarmo, but calling Halak middle of the pack is a bit unfair; unless you're merely parroting the media.

Also, I'm not so sure about the Norris bit...

 

[Sorge Georos]

Dude, why can't we both fanbases be happy?

 

[Groin Of Bates]

I love Jarmo, but calling Halak middle of the pack is a bit unfair; unless you're merely parroting the media.

Rask
Fleury
Price
Lundqvist
Schneider
Miller
Crawford
Quick
Niemi
Luongo
Lehtonen
Rinne
And I can make a case for both Bob and Smith

These are all goalies I would take over Halak on first thought. This isnt counting goalies who are similar such as Howard, or ones that I think have great potential like Holtby / Bernier / Bishop.

That would leave Halak around the middle of the pack...I think that assessment is dead on.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

Rask
Fleury
Price
Lundqvist
Schneider
Miller
Crawford
Quick
Niemi
Luongo
Lehtonen
Rinne
And I can make a case for both Bob and Smith

These are all goalies I would take over Halak on first thought. This isnt counting goalies who are similar such as Howard, or ones that I think have great potential like Holtby / Bernier / Bishop.

That would leave Halak around the middle of the pack...I think that assessment is dead on.

I would take the following over Halak:

Rask
Price
Schneider
Lundqvist
Bobrovsky

Maybe Quick, Bernier or Bishop.

In my view, he's in the upper third of goaltenders.

 

[Sorge Georos]

I would take the following over Halak:

Rask
Price
Schneider
Lundqvist
Bobrovsky

Maybe Quick, Bernier or Bishop.

In my view, he's in the upper third of goaltenders.

Oh god you're going to get murdered...

 

[Groin Of Bates]

I would take the following over Halak:

Rask
Price
Schneider
Lundqvist
Bobrovsky

Maybe Quick, Bernier or Bishop.

In my view, he's in the upper third of goaltenders.

How do you "maybe" take Quick? Guy was up for a Vezina, has 2 Cups, and had one of the greatest goaltending runs in playoff history...

Also, Halak has played over 50 games once in his entire career as a sole starter (this past year he had 52, split between STL / WSH). He has an injury history and has not been the top-10 goaltender many thought he could be post-Canadiens run

I am very happy with the Halak signing, do not get me wrong, but there are for sure 12 - 13 goaltenders better than him.

 

[Sorge Georos]

How do you "maybe" take Quick? Guy was up for a Vezina, has 2 Cups, and had one of the greatest goaltending runs in playoff history...

Also, Halak has played over 50 games once in his entire career as a sole starter (this past year he had 52, split between STL / WSH). He has an injury history and has not been the top-10 goaltender many thought he could be post-Canadiens run

I am very happy with the Halak signing, do not get me wrong, but there are for sure 12 - 13 goaltenders better than him.

Hmm..despite my above post that Halak/Quick is an unfair comparison, I guess it's worth noting that Quick was only truly spectacular in 2012. IMO he was nothing special in the Kings' recent Cup run but merely good enough to win. I'd easily take him over Fleury/Niemi

 

[BroadwayJay*]

How do you "maybe" take Quick? Guy was up for a Vezina, has 2 Cups, and had one of the greatest goaltending runs in playoff history...

Also, Halak has played over 50 games once in his entire career as a sole starter (this past year he had 52, split between STL / WSH). He has an injury history and has not been the top-10 goaltender many thought he could be post-Canadiens run

I am very happy with the Halak signing, do not get me wrong, but there are for sure 12 - 13 goaltenders better than him.

He wasn't all that great last year. He also was injured for some time as well. Quick appears to me, at present, to be overrated.

He was not that good in the cup final either and was WOEFULLY outplayed by Lundqvist. I'll take three years ago Quick in a heartbeat, but not last year's.

Even if you take Quick over him, I don't think Crawford, Rinne, Niemi, Luongo, etc... are "for sure" better than Halak.

 

[Groin Of Bates]

He wasn't all that great last year. He also was injured for some time as well. Quick appears to me, at present, to be overrated.

He was not that good in the cup final either and was WOEFULLY outplayed by Lundqvist. I'll take three years ago Quick in a heartbeat, but not last year's.

Even if you take Quick over him, I don't think Crawford, Rinne, Niemi, Luongo, etc... are "for sure" better than Halak.

All have proven to be consistent year in and year out, many of which in worse systems than St. Louis. Pekka Rinne was a top-5 goaltender before his injury, which I believe he will bounce back from. Quick had a down year, but so did the entire LA Kings. Just as Lundqvist had a piss-poor 1st half of the regular season due to the Rangers not finding their groove. Good goaltenders rebound and place you in a position to win, to steal games when they matter most. Halak did not do that for St. Louis and has only done it once in his entire career. The same St. Louis that turned around Brian Elliot's career.

Furthermore, my biggest point with Halak is consistency. He has only played above 50 as a starter 1 time in his career. Most of the goalies I mentioned, even ones such as Fleury (who's regular season success should not be discounted in the least) have played over 50 almost every season, some even moving into 60+, and still maintained a high level of play. Halak has yet to prove that he can do that and, to me, should not yet be entered into "elite" goaltender status. Until he proves he can maintain a high level of play as a TRUE #1, I will withhold judgment and place him in the middle of the pack.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

All have proven to be consistent year in and year out, many of which in worse systems than St. Louis. Pekka Rinne was a top-5 goaltender before his injury, which I believe he will bounce back from. Quick had a down year, but so did the entire LA Kings. Just as Lundqvist had a piss-poor 1st half of the regular season due to the Rangers not finding their groove. Good goaltenders rebound and place you in a position to win, to steal games when they matter most. Halak did not do that for St. Louis and has only done it once in his entire career. The same St. Louis that turned around Brian Elliot's career.

Furthermore, my biggest point with Halak is consistency. He has only played above 50 as a starter 1 time in his career. Most of the goalies I mentioned, even ones such as Fleury (who's regular season success should not be discounted in the least) have played over 50 almost every season, some even moving into 60+, and still maintained a high level of play. Halak has yet to prove that he can do that.

There's almost nothing in this post I agree with.

Especially that the LA Kings had a down year. They had a problem scoring before they got Gaborik, that's the extent of the down year.

Of course, this is the problem with goalie statistics; we don't have a lot to work with.

As a result, reasonable minds can disagree on a lot of points. That's not so bad.

 

[13th Floor]

I would take the following over Halak:

Rask
Price
Schneider
Lundqvist
Bobrovsky

Maybe Quick, Bernier or Bishop.

In my view, he's in the upper third of goaltenders.

I think Kari Lehtonen is seriously underrated. I think he is better than both Bernier and Bishop. I'd add him to that list, plus Rinne, and all of your 'maybes'.

Which puts Halak in the next tier, on par with Lu, Miller, MAF. Which is 11-14. I still contend that Halak is upper half, but closer to average than elite.

 

[Groin Of Bates]

There's almost nothing in this post I agree with.

Especially that the LA Kings had a down year. They had a problem scoring before they got Gaborik, that's the extent of the down year.

Of course, this is the problem with goalie statistics; we don't have a lot to work with.

As a result, reasonable minds can disagree on a lot of points. That's not so bad.

With goalie statistics, I can agree with you to an extent. GAA and sv% can sometimes be directly tied with the ebb and flow of scoring, team defense, etc. The one thing that you CAN work with though is games played. And, Halak has not played enough games consistently to vault him into top-10 status. I will take the proven, consistent, goaltender capable of giving me 60 that will produce the same stat line as a goalie who has played in 20 - 25 less games. This is not to say Halak cannot perform, and I hope he does in his time here with his opportunity, but he was never able to take the reigns in St. Louis from a backup goaltender who was subpar in Ottawa.

I'm just going off of history.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

I think Kari Lehtonen is seriously underrated. I think he is better than both Bernier and Bishop. I'd add him to that list, plus Rinne, and all of your 'maybes'.

Which puts Halak in the next tier, on par with Lu, Miller, MAF. Which is 11-14. I still contend that Halak is upper half, but closer to average than elite.

Reasonable minds can disagree.

 

[13th Floor]

Reasonable minds can disagree.

Sure can.

But, for a stats guy, what do you dislike about Kari's game? His stats are up there with the elite, and he hasn't exactly had a stellar defense in front him.

Dallas is going to be seriously scary soon, and Kari will be put on the map.

 

[Groin Of Bates]

Sure can.

But, for a stats guy, what do you dislike about Kari's game? His stats are up there with the elite, and he hasn't exactly had a stellar defense in front him.

Dallas is going to be seriously scary soon, and Kari will be put on the map.

I do agree with you about Kari. I think his early back issues really turned away a lot of the spotlight for how touted he was coming in. Severely underrated in my opinion as well and is a real treat to watch sometimes.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

Sure can.

But, for a stats guy, what do you dislike about Kari's game? His stats are up there with the elite, and he hasn't exactly had a stellar defense in front him.

Dallas is going to be seriously scary soon, and Kari will be put on the map.

You're right. I need to rethink where Lehtonen fits in the pantheon of goaltenders right now.

I concede I was judging him prematurely based on my (admittedly flawed) memory. I should have gone to the numbers.

 

[charlie1]

Rask
Fleury
Price
Lundqvist
Schneider
Miller
Crawford
Quick
Niemi
Luongo
Lehtonen
Rinne
And I can make a case for both Bob and Smith

These are all goalies I would take over Halak on first thought. This isnt counting goalies who are similar such as Howard, or ones that I think have great potential like Holtby / Bernier / Bishop.

That would leave Halak around the middle of the pack...I think that assessment is dead on.

Defintely not Fleury. League-average goaltender at best. Mentally questionable. Would hate to have to rely on him in the playoffs.

Defintely not Niemi. I follow the Sharks and he is just not that good anymore. Most Sharks fans are hoping Stalock will take over next year.

Not Lehtonen. Don't know why people are high on him. His Sv% has always hovered around league average. The best thing about him is that he sits on top of the net. He's ok, but I'll take Halak over him.

Not Rinne. Maybe Rinne of three years ago, but he has been well below average recently, and has had major hip problems.

Crawford vs. Halak is a toss-up for me.

I agree with the rest.

 

[blinkman360]

Why would anyone take Mike Smith over Halak?