Between Curry and KD, who is the 2nd best player of the era?

[Voight]

Bill Russell has more accolades, was the face of a dynasty, and is often ranked higher on people's all-time lists

Was he a better player than Wilt Chamberlain?

No chance Lance.

Russell is the most overrated player in NBA history IMO. Wilt would've had a ton of rings too given the same teammates Russell had.

 

[Aladyyn]

Bill Russell has more accolades, was the face of a dynasty, and is often ranked higher on people's all-time lists

Was he a better player than Wilt Chamberlain?

Yes.

Wilt could have and frankly should have been better but wasn't.

 

[Neutrinos]

Yes.

Wilt could have and frankly should have been better but wasn't.

Their stats in the 94 regular season games they played against one another:

Russell
44.8 minutes, 15.9 FGA, .370 FG%, 4.4 FTA, .543 FT%, 22.9 rebounds, 4.4 assists, 14.2 points, 3.6 fouls

Chamberlain
47 minutes, 24.6 FGA, .488 FG%, 12 FTA, .493 FT%, 28.1 rebounds, 3.8 assists, 29.9 points, 1.9 fouls


Their stats in the 49 playoff games they played against one another:

Russell
46.3 minutes, 14 FGA, .417 FG%, 5.2 FTA, .607 FT%, 24.7 rebounds, 4.9 assists, 14.9 points, 3.9 fouls

Chamberlain
47.5 minutes, 19.6 FGA, .508 FG%, 11.8 FTA, .49 FT%, 28 rebounds, 4.1 assists, 25.7 points, 2.4 fouls

 

[DaaaaB's]

Yes.

Wilt could have and frankly should have been better but wasn't.

What an awful take lol. I loved Bill Russell but there's absolutely no way he was better than Wilt.

 

[Stylizer1]

LeBron is the 2nd best.

 

[Neutrinos]

Also claimed Harden > Kobe

Kobe age 21 - 32 (35090 minutes)
24.4 PER, .557 TS%, 143 WS, .196 WS/48, 5.6 BPM, 67.2 VORP

Harden age 22 - 33 (30825 minutes)
25.5 PER, .612 TS%, 146.4 WS, .228 WS/48, 7.4 BPM, 72.8 VORP

 

[Voight]

Kobe age 21 - 32 (35090 minutes)
24.4 PER, .557 TS%, 143 WS, .196 WS/48, 5.6 BPM, 67.2 VORP

Harden age 22 - 33 (30825 minutes)
25.5 PER, .612 TS%, 146.4 WS, .228 WS/48, 7.4 BPM, 72.8 VORP

Kobe age 21-32
5x Champion, 2x Finals MVP, 1x MVP, 9x 1st ALl NBA, 2x 2nd All NBA, 2x 3rd All NBA, 9x 1st All NBA Defensive, 2x 2nd All NBA Defensive, 2x Scoring Champion

Harden age 22-33
1x MVP, 6x 1st All NBA, 1x 3rd All NBA, 1x Sixth MOY, 3x Scoring Champion, 2x Assist Leader

Pretty clear who's better.

 

[Neutrinos]

Kobe age 21-32
5x Champion, 2x Finals MVP, 1x MVP, 9x 1st ALl NBA, 2x 2nd All NBA, 2x 3rd All NBA, 9x 1st All NBA Defensive, 2x 2nd All NBA Defensive, 2x Scoring Champion

Harden age 22-33
1x MVP, 6x 1st All NBA, 1x 3rd All NBA, 1x Sixth MOY, 3x Scoring Champion, 2x Assist Leader

Pretty clear who's better.

Those are voted on awards, they do nothing to provide us with the player's actual on-court value

Oh, and here's exactly what I said in regards to Harden vs Kobe

Generally speaking, during their respective primes, the positive value that Harden provided to his team was greater than what Kobe provided to his

The analytics support that

 

[Voight]

Those are voted on awards, they do nothing to provide us with the player's actual on-court value

Oh, and here's exactly what I said in regards to Harden vs Kobe

Generally speaking, during their respective primes, the positive value that Harden provided to his team was greater than what Kobe provided to his

The analytics support that

Champion ships are voted on? News to me.

Maybe if Harden didn't fall apart whenever his team(s) needed him the most he might have a championship or at least have made the finals (as a starter).

Analytics aren't the be all end all. You'd be hard pressed to find a basketball fan who would agree that Harden provided more value to his team(s) than Kobe did.

 

[Neutrinos]

Champion ships are voted on? News to me.

Maybe if Harden didn't fall apart whenever his team(s) needed him the most he might have a championship or at least have made the finals (as a starter).

Analytics aren't the be all end all. You'd be hard pressed to find a basketball fan who would agree that Harden provided more value to his team(s) than Kobe did.

Championships also do nothing to provide us with a player's actual on-court value, so why even bring them up?

When their teams faced elimination, Kobe averaged 22.3 points on 41.4% shooting compared to Harden's 22.8 points on 42.1% shooting, yet, it's only Harden who fell apart when his teams needed him?

Lots of basketball fans think Russell provided more value to his teams than Wilt did to his, but that doesn't make it true

Stats > Opinions

 

[Mike C]

Since when was Chris Paul considered in this conversation? I never heard anyone considered Paul on the same level with Steph and KD.

There's a reason for that too!

 

[Mike C]

Those are voted on awards, they do nothing to provide us with the player's actual on-court value

Oh, and here's exactly what I said in regards to Harden vs Kobe

Generally speaking, during their respective primes, the positive value that Harden provided to his team was greater than what Kobe provided to his

The analytics support that

If you truly beleive Harden provided more value than Kobe, you are out of your mind

Kobe provided winning mentality and performance while Harden provides cancer in the clubhouse, selfsish play, mental weakness,malingering and 4th qtr playoff airballs and turnovers

Perfect proof how metrics and analytics are pure unadulterared BULLSHIT

Championships also do nothing to provide us with a player's actual on-court value, so why even bring them up?

When their teams faced elimination, Kobe averaged 22.3 points on 41.4% shooting compared to Harden's 22.8 points on 42.1% shooting, yet, it's only Harden who fell apart when his teams needed him?

Lots of basketball fans think Russell provided more value to his teams than Wilt did to his, but that doesn't make it true

Stats > Opinions

Winning > stats

 

[Mike C]

Championships also do nothing to provide us with a player's actual on-court value, so why even bring them up?

When their teams faced elimination, Kobe averaged 22.3 points on 41.4% shooting compared to Harden's 22.8 points on 42.1% shooting, yet, it's only Harden who fell apart when his teams needed him?

Lots of basketball fans think Russell provided more value to his teams than Wilt did to his, but that doesn't make it true

Stats > Opinions

Stepping up and blocking shots, rebounding in traffic, sacrificing the body and playing D > protecting your not fouling out streak, playing passive faking injuries and taking yourself out of games

team > selfish

warrior> wussy

 

[NMF78]

Championships also do nothing to provide us with a player's actual on-court value, so why even bring them up?

When their teams faced elimination, Kobe averaged 22.3 points on 41.4% shooting compared to Harden's 22.8 points on 42.1% shooting, yet, it's only Harden who fell apart when his teams needed him?

Lots of basketball fans think Russell provided more value to his teams than Wilt did to his, but that doesn't make it true

Stats > Opinions

The purpose of team sports is to win with your team, great analytics are secondary at best.

 

[Ratbath]

Oh man I gotta stop by the basketball board more often. Some of y’all are absolutely unhinged

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Is the "win shares" stat from basketball-reference.com? I'm asking because I did a deep dive into the "point shares" stat from its sister site, hockey-reference.com. It's poorly constructed and has some obvious design flaws (which helps explain why the results are often nonsensical).

Granted, it doesn't necessarily mean that win shares is useless (even if point shares is). But if win shares is being used, someone who understands basketball (not me) should take a look at the calculation to see if it makes sense. I can't emphasize enough how poorly designed point shares is.

 

[DaaaaB's]

LeBron. If you do a deep dive, he's not the best player of the last 25 years.

Would you care to share who is then?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

LeBron. If you do a deep dive, he's not the best player of the last 25 years.

A deep dive into acid maybe

 

[Neutrinos]

.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

KD and Steph were on the same team and it was obvious to anyone with common sense that KD was the better player. KD has more finals MVPs, more all NBA, more all NBA 1st team, more ASG, more ASG MVPs, averages more pts/rebounds/blocks, higher PER, higher +/-, higher VORP, isn't a defensive liability like Steph. The only thing Steph is better at is shooting and even that is arguable. Steph has only 1 season in his career shooting above 50% FG%, KD has 10. Steph is quickly becoming one of the most overrated players in NBA history.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

KD and Steph were on the same team and it was obvious to anyone with common sense that KD was the better player. KD has more finals MVPs, more all NBA, more all NBA 1st team, more ASG, more ASG MVPs, averages more pts/rebounds/blocks, higher PER, higher +/-, higher VORP, isn't a defensive liability like Steph. The only thing Steph is better at is shooting and even that is arguable. Steph has only 1 season in his career shooting above 50% FG%, KD has 10. Steph is quickly becoming one of the most overrated players in NBA history.

Curry has a large base of fans, likely because they think they can relate to him better due to his height and skin color. He does have intangibles- those being that the NBA's officiating will do everything in their power to make his team succeed- likely due to those fans of his.

But in terms of effective basketball ability the only thing Curry is better at than KD is shooting, which KD is also extremely good at.

 

[Elvis P]

The 2 best post-Jordan players are Kobe and Duncan unless you're a counting stat fool.

 

[LightningStorm]

The 2 best post-Jordan players are Kobe and Duncan unless you're a counting stat fool.

Lebron blows both out of the water. I'd also take Shaq without hesitation over those 2. Kobe and Duncan are legends and at bare minimum top 15 ever, but a large part of their 5 rings was getting lucky by getting drafted by the most powerful organization (Lakers) and smartest one (Spurs) of their time.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Dafug is up with the chris paul dickriding in here? Great player, and very efficient like PER says but it's clear as day, nearly a fact that he could never realistically be the Alpha and clearcut best player on a Championship team. And he never won one anyway.


That knocks him down pretty damn big in all-time discussion, in a sport where one guy can impact winning more than the other major sports. Steph and KD are in a different air.

Neutrinos must have missed that OWS isn't a great stat at all.

And that he prolly wasn't born when Paul choked and failed to play any good game in the clutch, especially in the playoff. I'll give him a pass with the Hornets because he had a very good playoff debut, but he had stacked team with the Clippers and he sucked when it mattered the most, wouldn't take any shot. History repeated itself in Houston, and Phoenix.

Lets not forget his OKC stint where again choked in 7 games.

"Win shares" Dude has a OCD on that. "Win Shares", where Gobert is the third best offensive player in the league and Curry is the best defensive player.

I'm convinced that account trolls a lot. They also said they could have played in the NHL in the 80's/90's with their current skills in a thread on the The Rink forum, lol. Will never forget that...

 

[Neutrinos]

As a rule, I don't usually respond to users on my 'Ignore' list, but this guy is bragging that he will "never forget that..." despite the fact he's made the same claim multiple times without once quoting me correctly...

This is what I said...

Obviously this is a purely speculative exercise, and answers will vary depending on your skills and experience as a player, but if you could take modern equipment back in time with you, in which eras could you have played in the NHL? And how do you think you would do?

For example, if I could use modern skates, gloves, and a composite stick, I'm quite confident that I'd lead the early days of the NHL in scoring by a considerable amount. I don't think 10 - 20 points per game would be out of the question

As for the latest era I could play in, I think I could hang in there up until skates evolved to the point where they began resembling those that are used today. My best guess would be the 60's or early 70's, but again, this is just a guess based on my own assessment of things


NOTE: For the purposes of this exercise, you're in your prime and have been training like a modern day athlete, so you're at your peak physically

Using Modern Equipment, In What Eras Could You Have Played In The NHL?

Obviously this is a purely speculative exercise, and answers will vary depending on your skills and experience as a player, but if you could take modern equipment back in time with you, in which eras could you have played in the NHL? And how do you think you would do? For example, if I could...

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