Bettman: ATL relo "one-off" (no more foreseen); Balsillie-approach not suggested

[knorthern knight]

I've already mentioned the US house price double-dip. I live just north of city of Toronto (less than 100 yards north). Friday afternoon I noticed a bunch of signs on the boulevard advertising a forclosure auction of "golf condos" in the Orlando, Florida area. Are things really that bad out there that they have to market foreclosed Orlando condos in Toronto?

If the US economy remains weak, I expect more US teams in trouble. And not necessarily "classic sunbelt" teams.

 

[Confucius]

I've already mentioned the US house price double-dip. I live just north of city of Toronto (less than 100 yards north). Friday afternoon I noticed a bunch of signs on the boulevard advertising a forclosure auction of "golf condos" in the Orlando, Florida area. Are things really that bad out there that they have to market foreclosed Orlando condos in Toronto?

If the US economy remains weak, I expect more US teams in trouble. And not necessarily "classic sunbelt" teams.

I thought it was mostly Canadians that owned Condos on Golf courses in Orlando in the first place...

 

[berklon]

I've already mentioned the US house price double-dip. I live just north of city of Toronto (less than 100 yards north). Friday afternoon I noticed a bunch of signs on the boulevard advertising a forclosure auction of "golf condos" in the Orlando, Florida area. Are things really that bad out there that they have to market foreclosed Orlando condos in Toronto?

It makes sense to me. Prices in Canada (especially Vancouver and Toronto) are extremely inflated - why not target those who still have lust for this terrible investment (homes)?... especially when the prices look like total bargains when compared to the shacks we get up here for 2x+ the price.

In any case, don't kid yourself... Canada's in the midst of a HUGE RE bubble which is about to pop. The outcome may not be as bad as in the US as the market will probably unfold more slowly - but it will happen and it will screw over a lot of people.

 

[Mungman]

It makes sense to me. Prices in Canada (especially Vancouver and Toronto) are extremely inflated - why not target those who still have lust for this terrible investment (homes)?... especially when the prices look like total bargains when compared to the shacks we get up here for 2x+ the price.

In any case, don't kid yourself... Canada's in the midst of a HUGE RE bubble which is about to pop. The outcome may not be as bad as in the US as the market will probably unfold more slowly - but it will happen and it will screw over a lot of people.

I think two big differences that will make things much easier here:1) Canada didn't have the huge speculation with the "liar loans" and the like and 2) The problem markets are quite localized, VAN is the big problem, Calgary and Saskatoon to some extent and I'm not that familiar with the east...

 

[RandR]

The list was of the past 40 years, but if we just look at relocations during this last decade, or the past 10 years, the NHL doesn't appear so bad.

NHL
2011: Atlanta Thrashers moved to Winnipeg.

NBA
2001: Vancouver Grizzlies moved to Memphis, Tennessee.
2002: Charlotte Hornets moved to New Orleans.
2008: Seattle SuperSonics became the Oklahoma City Thunder.

NFL
None

MLB
2005: Montreal Expos moved to Washington, D.C.

Interesting.

Just an observation... in those 5 relocations, the hockey team went north, the baseball and basketball teams went south.

I have no doubt that isn't purely coincidental; I would even say it's a current trend.

 

[knorthern knight]

Interesting.

Just an observation... in those 5 relocations, the hockey team went north, the baseball and basketball teams went south.

But, but, but... MLB AND NBA were trying to "grow their footprint". Now, after the franchise relocations, you'll probably see a bunch of newspaper articles saying that baseball and basketball can't succeed in "the snowbelt".

 

[jkrdevil]

I've already mentioned the US house price double-dip. I live just north of city of Toronto (less than 100 yards north). Friday afternoon I noticed a bunch of signs on the boulevard advertising a forclosure auction of "golf condos" in the Orlando, Florida area. Are things really that bad out there that they have to market foreclosed Orlando condos in Toronto?

If the US economy remains weak, I expect more US teams in trouble. And not necessarily "classic sunbelt" teams.

I'm pretty sure they have those ads in northern US cities as well. Condos on golf courses is popular among snowbirds (no matter what country they are from).

 

[Jumptheshark]

this time next year we will be talking about phoenix and maybe florida

 

[wsoxfan1214]

this time next year we will be talking about phoenix and maybe florida

Don't forget Columbus.

 

[Killion]

.....and Long Island. If the vote to approve the new arena August 1st goes against Wang big problem.

 

[Steve Passless*]

If the vote to approve the new arena August 1st goes against Wang big problem.

The book about the dying days of the Isles will be titled A Big Wang Problem. It will break records for most returns.

 

[knorthern knight]

Condos on golf courses is popular among snowbirds (no matter what country they are from).

I saw the signs again today, and had a closer look. They also mention that the condos are...

• near Disney
• going at a 70% discount

Obviously not that popular. The implication is that home values are still cratering in the southern US. This is a one-two bad news punch for the NHL...

• Joe Public doesn't have the disposable income to spend on hockey tickets
• the multi-millionaire franchise owners may have their fortunes adversley affected by a faltering economy, e.g. Cousens and Moyes

 

[Melrose Munch]

But, but, but... MLB AND NBA were trying to "grow their footprint". Now, after the franchise relocations, you'll probably see a bunch of newspaper articles saying that baseball and basketball can't succeed in "the snowbelt".

Really?

NY, Chicago, Detroit, Phila, Cleveland, Boston, Toronto, DC?

The NBA could work in Vancouver with an overwork of the league, including player attitudes. And that may come with the lockout.

 

[dronald]

Really?

NY, Chicago, Detroit, Phila, Cleveland, Boston, Toronto, DC?

The NBA could work in Vancouver with an overwork of the league, including player attitudes. And that may come with the lockout.

My biggest problem with the NBA right there. (And it's boring)

 

[Free Edler]

this time next year we will be talking about phoenix and maybe florida

Not Florida unless the owner puts the team into bankruptcy, and as we've seen with Phoenix, that's a huge mess that takes years to sort out.

 

[Melrose Munch]

My biggest problem with the NBA right there. (And it's boring)

I am and NBA fan and I sort of agree. But you could say hockey is too.


But why is the players fault some of these cities suck?? Be honest. You are young and rich, would you not rather be in Toronto, NY, Chi, LA than a smaller midwest town that lacks a lot of the bigger cities amenities.

 

[Killion]

The book about the dying days of the Isles will be titled A Big Wang Problem. It will break records for most returns.

Man, ya just gotta feel for Isles fans'. Unbelievable.......

 

[Killion]

....would you not rather be in Toronto, NY, Chi, LA than a smaller midwest town that lacks a lot of the bigger cities amenities.

As your on the road for 1/2 the season;, most players having short careers, it really wouldnt & shouldnt matter, and if youve got a family its preferable. There is also much to be said for being stationed in a place like Winnipeg or Edmonton, Raleigh or Columbus, as there are less distractions, a sense of community that you dont find quite so much in the major markets.

 

[Melrose Munch]

As your on the road for 1/2 the season;, most players having short careers, it really wouldnt & shouldnt matter, and if youve got a family its preferable. There is also much to be said for being stationed in a place like Winnipeg or Edmonton, Raleigh or Columbus, as there are less distractions, a sense of community that you dont find quite so much in the major markets.

Not if you are under the of 30. You just talked about stuff old guys liked.

 

[Steve Passless*]

There aren't enough NY/LA/Chicago/Toronto roster spots for every player between 18 and 30. Tragedy of tragedies, you might have to play half your games in a medium-sized city.

For whatever it's worth, NBA players from the Hornets and Thunder have spoken more positively about Oklahoma City than anyone ever could have imagined. "Those NBA players with their gold teeth and their flat brims and their entourages would never go for some hooterville backwater!," people exclaimed, which is why Oklahoma City never sought Allen Iverson. Instead, they got players who would buy in to a small-market, greater-good mindset. If they can play host to rich athletes, so can Winnipeg, Edmonton, Columbus, etc.

 

[Koss]

I am and NBA fan and I sort of agree. But you could say hockey is too.


But why is the players fault some of these cities suck?? Be honest. You are young and rich, would you not rather be in Toronto, NY, Chi, LA than a smaller midwest town that lacks a lot of the bigger cities amenities.

If I'm a professional athlete then I want to help with a winning team period.

 

[Melrose Munch]

There aren't enough NY/LA/Chicago/Toronto roster spots for every player between 18 and 30. Tragedy of tragedies, you might have to play half your games in a medium-sized city.

For whatever it's worth, NBA players from the Hornets and Thunder have spoken more positively about Oklahoma City than anyone ever could have imagined. "Those NBA players with their gold teeth and their flat brims and their entourages would never go for some hooterville backwater!," people exclaimed, which is why Oklahoma City never sought Allen Iverson. Instead, they got players who would buy in to a small-market, greater-good mindset. If they can play host to rich athletes, so can Winnipeg, Edmonton, Columbus, etc.

Everyone is different. I'm just saying if someone is trashing your city, ask why? What can we do to improve it, etc?

 

[Melrose Munch]

If I'm a professional athlete then I want to help with a winning team period.

I would agree, in a ideal world. The NHL does not have as much a problem.

 

[PredsV82]

I saw the signs again today, and had a closer look. They also mention that the condos are...

• near Disney
• going at a 70% discount

Obviously not that popular. The implication is that home values are still cratering in the southern US. This is a one-two bad news punch for the NHL...

• Joe Public doesn't have the disposable income to spend on hockey tickets
• the multi-millionaire franchise owners may have their fortunes adversley affected by a faltering economy, e.g. Cousens and Moyes

property values are cratering everywhere, not just the south, and are probably better in the south as a whole than just about anywhere else in the country.

the "golf condos" advertised arent really "homes" they are more like speculative investments or luxury items, both of which get hit hard during economic downturns

make no mistake, the bad economy hurts the NHL but it does so everywhere

 

[Killion]

Not if you are under 30. You just talked about stuff old guys liked.

If you only knew MM.... Believe me, smallish, quieter places are great spots to be based under 30.