Better future: Buffalo Sabres vs Toronto Maple Leafs

[Kamiccolo]

It's not basketball. Even if you wanted to argue that Eichel and Dahlin > Matthews and Rielly, Toronto still has overall much stronger organizational depth and a much stronger management group.

 

[Atomos2]

It's not basketball. Even if you wanted to argue that Eichel and Dahlin > Matthews and Rielly, Toronto still has overall much stronger organizational depth and a much stronger management group.

Not to mention Andersen >> Lehner or Johnson or whoever Buffalo's top goalie is.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Sabres have a better core (potential wise) but "better future" requires more than that. They need to acquire good pieces to play alongside these guys, let them develop, and build a good system. It might take 3-4 years.

 

[GOilers88]

Why does one HAVE to be better than the other? Can't they both just have good young cores of talented, up and coming hockey players?

 

[DanM]

The thing is Eichel is superior vs Edmontons best D-man and Edmonton has one of the worst F depths in the league.
Quality depth has been a massive problem for Buffalo but things are looking better, Eichel, RoR, Reinhart, Mitt, Okposo, Nylander at F, Dahlin, Risto, Scandella on defense.

Pre draft Toronto, with Dahlin would bet on Buffalo to be ahead on few years time.

Well I think the future is bright for the Sabres, we also have a very deep prospect pool.

Bracco
Lilly
Engvall
Grundstrom
Korshkov
Timashov
Johasson
Dermott
Kappy
Lievo
Ransenen
Greenway
Middleton

That's just 13, and I could include more. This also doesn't take into effect our drafting, free agents, or trades that will happen.

This is all without even touching our Leafs roster, and the Marlies are the top AHL team.

People can have any opinion they want, I respect it, but we have a lot of players that could be very good. Also, most have all played as many NHL games as Dhalin, which is zero.

 

[BB88]

Well I think the future is bright for the Sabres, we also have a very deep prospect pool.

Bracco
Lilly
Engvall
Grundstrom
Korshkov
Timashov
Johasson
Dermott
Kappy
Lievo
Ransenen
Greenway
Middleton

That's just 13, and I could include more. This also doesn't take into effect our drafting, free agents, or trades that will happen.

This is all without even touching our Leafs roster, and the Marlies are the top AHL team.

People can have any opinion they want, I respect it, but we have a lot of players that could be very good. Also, most have all played as many NHL games as Dhalin, which is zero.

You have prospects, like every team has prospects.

But your top guys Matthews, Marner& Nylander, the F core guys are already on the roster and yes they have potential to develop but they don't have as much as they had when they were prospects.

Buffalo has Dahlin& Mitt as their top prospects, which alone gives a massive advantage to Buffalos prospect pool, then what are we expecting from next year, Toronto to fight for a playoff spot where as Buffalo is more on the WC fight if all goes well, which means Buffalo keeps building their prospect pool.
Toronto today has the superior roster but this roster/core is closer to their end potential than Buffalos.
Franchise C+Franchise D-man duo with Dahlins potential is a scary thought.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

i'll take the team that had twice as many wins this season until further notice, and there's no argument otherwise at this point in time

 

[Apotheosis]

How is it not in potential?

Matthews> Eichel today
Dahlin >> Rielly on potential, which is the difference maker.

Both teams have franchise C's, one of these teams have a guy with the potential to be the next Karlsson, Toronton's D-group is their weakness, like Buffalos is today but they don't have a guy like Dahlin waiting.

It's a bit weird to have A.Nylander over ROR or Reinhart as a core player.

I completely agree Dahlin tips the scale on the back end, but Toronto is better literally everywhere else. My basis of comparison was of point of draft time versus who is already on the team.

Matthews has been better at every level, so I doubt that changes between them. Dahlin will most likely (and by most I mean almost certainly) be better than Rielly. Rielly is better than Risto while Dermott, Gardiner and Hainsey are better than the rest of Buffalo's D core. RoR > Kadri but Nylander > Reinhart. Where's the comparable for Marner? Middle has high potential but Marner's is even higher while having superior pedigree. In addition, Toronto's team is much deeper offensively, has better goaltending and churns out depth wingers with scoring ability (Kapanen and Johnsson for instance) like it's their job. Buffalo has a nice core in place now, but they have to fill it out nicely otherwise, it might be wasted talent (although I do think Eichel and Dahlin are too good to get technically "waste" so to speak).

 

[BB88]

I completely agree Dahlin tips the scale on the back end, but Toronto is better literally everywhere else. My basis of comparison was of point of draft time versus who is already on the team.

Matthews has been better at every level, so I doubt that changes between them. Dahlin will most likely (and by most I mean almost certainly) be better than Rielly. Rielly is better than Risto while Dermott, Gardiner and Hainsey are better than the rest of Buffalo's D core. RoR > Kadri but Nylander > Reinhart. Where's the comparable for Marner? Middle has high potential but Marner's is even higher while having superior pedigree. In addition, Toronto's team is much deeper offensively, has better goaltending and churns out depth wingers with scoring ability (Kapanen and Johnsson for instance) like it's their job. Buffalo has a nice core in place now, but they have to fill it out nicely otherwise, it might be wasted talent (although I do think Eichel and Dahlin are too good to get technically "waste" so to speak).

I really don't care about the W group as much when there's a potential Karlsson dominating on the blueline.
The best D-man in the league has a massive, massive impact on the game, I'd only take McDavid/Crosby ahead of prime Karlsson.

Now add Eichel to go with that guy, with RoR, Mitt, Risto, Reinhart, Scandella and there's something to build on.

Eichel- Mitt
ROR- Reinhart

Dahlin- Risto
Scandella.
That's what I'm looking at with Buffalo and to whom around they are building, or should be building their team longterm.
On potential Buffalo doesn't have a major hole on their roster, Toronto needs to upgrade their defense to get to a Cup contending level, which is more difficult for them now than for Buffalo, thanks to Dahlin.

Toronto wins on W, but it's a small win when looking at those D-cores.
Eichel+ROR= Matthews+Kadri at C.

 

[HenrikW]

I think Buffalo has the better 4 player core, but Toronto just has too many pieces outside of the core. Toronto already has a competitive team and can actually afford to move piece and re-tool around their core as best fit.

Buffalo has nothing outside their best players. No secondary assets worth a damn. TONS of potentional loaded up on a few select players but can hardly be called a hockey team.

For me, this is easily Toronto.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

You have prospects, like every team has prospects.

But your top guys Matthews, Marner& Nylander, the F core guys are already on the roster and yes they have potential to develop but they don't have as much as they had when they were prospects.

Buffalo has Dahlin& Mitt as their top prospects, which alone gives a massive advantage to Buffalos prospect pool, then what are we expecting from next year, Toronto to fight for a playoff spot where as Buffalo is more on the WC fight if all goes well, which means Buffalo keeps building their prospect pool.
Toronto today has the superior roster but this roster/core is closer to their end potential than Buffalos.
Franchise C+Franchise D-man duo with Dahlins potential is a scary thought.

Leafs get punished for actually having a good young team. Buffalo gets points for maybe having one in the works.

HF Logic at its finest.

 

[Kelly]

Their cores are basically in the same age bracket, and one team has back to back PO appearances and the other just finished dead last.

How is this so close?

 

[BB88]

Leafs get punished for actually having a good young team. Buffalo gets points for maybe having one in the works.

HF Logic at its finest.

So you didn't read my posts.

The talk was on potential, I've said todays Toronto team is superior.

Their cores are basically in the same age bracket, and one team has back to back PO appearances and the other just finished dead last.

How is this so close?

Because of Dahlin, and in a lesser way Mitt.

Both are prospects.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

There is no case for Buffalo it just doesn't exist.

There is no case for Eichel over Matthews

There is no case for any winger Buffalo has over Marner or Nylander

There sure as hell isn't a case for Lehner over Andersen

I'd take ROR over Kadri but ROR sounds like he's on his way out if you believe Bobby Mack

The ONLY case you can make interms of core is Dahlin over Riley and even that is questionable until Dahlin plays.

Then you get to the standings 62 points VS 105

There is no case for Buffalo

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Their cores are basically in the same age bracket, and one team has back to back PO appearances and the other just finished dead last.

How is this so close?

Because young and unproven is everything and leafs players are the worst

 

[Kelly]

Because of Dahlin, and in a lesser way Mitt.

Both are prospects.

Those are ridiculous expectations for an 18 year old defenseman, and an 19 year old forward. As of now, and until Buffalo works out their goaltending and adds some depth around their core, I just don't see the argument. Dahlin is a huge add, and will make them a better team, but Toronto also had some quality prospects coming up, and have already gotten over the biggest hump and are marinating their team in a winning culture.

Hate to kick them when their down, but look at Edmonton, it takes much more than 1 player to change a teams direction.

 

[Yasuo]

Close but Sabres. I don't think Alex Nylander will completely bust but i don't see him as a core guy.... maybe a 50 points second liner in his prime

 

[BB88]

Those are ridiculous expectations for an 18 year old defenseman, and an 19 year old forward. As of now, and until Buffalo works out their goaltending and adds some depth around their core, I just don't see the argument. Dahlin is a huge add, and will make them a better team, but Toronto also had some quality prospects coming up, and have already gotten over the biggest hump and are marinating their team in a winning culture.

Hate to kick them when their down, but look at Edmonton, it takes much more than 1 player to change a teams direction.

Dahlins that good.

The expectations were crazy for Mcdavid, they were crazy for Matthews, now they are for Dahlin.

Dahlin on potential is on a whole different planet to Edmontons best D-man, that's what so many are ignoring with this Edmonton comparison.

Edmonton has McDavid+Drai, both are forwards, Buffalo will have Eichel+ Dahlin. Then again the depth, which was a massive problem for Edmonton just like it was for Buffalo, but Buffalo is in better spot concerning than vs Edmonton.

 

[CowbellConray]

This is Toronto and I’m a die hard Sabres fan. You just cannot say the Sabres will be better right now

You can make cases for the Sabres being better 1 v 1 player to player and I would listen to you... but the results on the ice aren’t there.

Let Dahlin come in and play first. While I think he is the highest potential player and either team we need to see him succeed first

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Leafs with the edge at forward and Buffalo at defense. I'm really high on Dahlin and think he'll be the best player on either team so I voted Sabres. But it's really close.

 

[EichHart]

Those are ridiculous expectations for an 18 year old defenseman, and an 19 year old forward. As of now, and until Buffalo works out their goaltending and adds some depth around their core, I just don't see the argument. Dahlin is a huge add, and will make them a better team, but Toronto also had some quality prospects coming up, and have already gotten over the biggest hump and are marinating their team in a winning culture.

Hate to kick them when their down, but look at Edmonton, it takes much more than 1 player to change a teams direction.

Leafs went from last place to playoff team in one season when they added Matthews, Nylander, Marner. We're adding Dahlin, Mittlestadt, Guhle, and possibly Nylander next year. We have Eichel, Reinhart, ROR, Risto, Okposo, Scandella already up with the team. The added depth will ease off on the expectations of the other players. I don't expect playoffs next year but hope we get 80-85 pts and get some progress out of all our youngsters.

 

[Kelly]

Leafs went from last place to playoff team in one season when they added Matthews, Nylander, Marner. We're adding Dahlin, Mittlestadt, Guhle, and possibly Nylander next year. We have Eichel, Reinhart, ROR, Risto, Okposo, Scandella already up with the team. The added depth will ease off on the expectations of the other players. I don't expect playoffs next year but hope we get 80-85 pts and get some progress out of all our youngsters.

Leafs added:

Andersen
Matthews
Marner
Nylander
Brown
Hyman
Healthy JVR
Zaitzev

But for sure, nothing wrong with expecting progress. Personally, I'll throw my chips on the teams who's already progressed though -- Sabres (obviously) still have a far way to go after just finishing last place, where as the Leafs are a couple steps ahead.

Dahlins that good.

The expectations were crazy for Mcdavid, they were crazy for Matthews, now they are for Dahlin.

Dahlin on potential is on a whole different planet to Edmontons best D-man, that's what so many are ignoring with this Edmonton comparison.

Edmonton has McDavid+Drai, both are forwards, Buffalo will have Eichel+ Dahlin. Then again the depth, which was a massive problem for Edmonton just like it was for Buffalo, but Buffalo is in better spot concerning than vs Edmonton.

Just seems like a lot of 'maybes', and 'I hope's' to get to that stage, where as Toronto is already at that stage. At this point, Buffalo needs a little more work than just adding two, albeit bluechip, prospects into the lineup.

 

[EichHart]

Leafs added:

Andersen
Matthews
Marner
Nylander
Brown
Hyman
Healthy JVR
Zaitzev

But for sure, nothing wrong with expecting progress. Personally, I'll throw my chips on the teams who's already progressed though -- Sabres (obviously) still have a far way to go after just finishing last place, where as the Leafs are a couple steps ahead.

Until we get a good goalie, the Leafs will have the edge by far.

 

[Thenameless]

Both teams are cursed, so that part's a draw and out of the way now.

Toronto still has more good players and should still be the greater playoff threat for the next 2 to 3 years. However, Buffalo might actually have the more talented high end players, now that Dahlin is going there. If their management can make some good moves, it would be easier to get the complementary pieces needed to win with that high end talent. But that's a big if, and it will require some luck too, as Buffalo is not one of those traditionally desirable destinations in the NHL.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

I just cannot see Dahlin stepping in right away and dominating. He'll get there but I think it will take a few years for him to do so.