Better All-Time: Peter Forsberg Or Evgeni Malkin?

[GlitchMarner]

Which player would you rank higher on an all-time list?

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[jigglysquishy]

I have them very close (around 20th top centre all time), but I do have Malkin ahead.

 

[DFF]

Forsberg

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Forsberg

But is it close?

I’m with Forsberg, but that’s probably on nostalgic what-coulda-been thinking. Good question.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Malkin has the better peak, better prime, and better longevity.

Pretty clear cut imo.

 

[Kaiden Ghoul]

Foppa

 

[authentic]

Malkin has the better peak, better prime, and better longevity.

Pretty clear cut imo.

Offensive peak? Slightly. All these things are arguably in favour of Forsberg overall except longevity, which Malkin barely squeezes by with many injury troubles of his own over the years.

Forsberg also has a higher goals and points per game in the playoffs in a lower scoring era in roughly the same number of games while being better defensively. Not quite so clear cut really.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Malkin has the better peak, better prime, and better longevity.

Pretty clear cut imo.

Better peak? Are you sure?

 

[Dingo]

Malkin has the better peak, better prime, and better longevity.

Pretty clear cut imo.

I consider Forsberg’s peak to be the 2002 playoffs through his 37 game season in 03-04

188pts in 134 consecutive games. 20 of those being playoff games. In the lowest scoring era since …..? Ever? And a fourth place in Selke in the one fullish year in there, all of this starting after missing an entire year.

Malkin’s peak is great, too, but….. this is one of the best peaks…. I DO believe the next project should be on peaks….it’s a VERY good peak. FAR ahead of the league around him at the time. It’s the type of gap that Crosby has accomplished in the three broken seasons, Ovechkin in three full seasons, McDavid definitely, Jagr definitely, Lemieux of course and then, before million dollar salaries and an open welcome mat to all Europeans it happened fairly regularly - Wayne, Guy, Phil. Bobby, Gordie, etc.

I should look harder at Malkin, though. It’s true that when he was on he was arguably better than Sid and Ovie, and he has two Rosses. Im just not sure it’s a gimme.

Nothing wrong with a Geno pick here, btw. I’m just not sure everyone knows Forsberg’s peak was 134 games long, just how good it was when all around game is included, and that even for the first half of the 2005 season he was still considered the man and was off to a very hot start before the feet fell apart.

edit - ya, as I remembered he was hot in 2005. 50 points in his first 28 games, leading right up until Christmas. Then the end of Forsberg began to set in. He struggled through that season and couldn’t properly stand in his skates for the rest of his broken career,

I believe that is 238 points over 162 consecutive games. I believe Sid’s three broken years work out to about a 135pt season?, Forsberg’s work out to about 120. This is pretty close to equal considering era, and Forsberg actually did it over a much larger stretch of games, and many more consecutively. While playing a renowned all around game. For all of the ‘Forsberg is the most overrated player’ comments on these boards, I actually think his peak is underrated. I think it is arguably better than Sid’s, and I’ll admit I still don’t know about Geno’s, but I do accept that it could be even better.

 

[Video Nasty]

Malkin.

Both missed significant time throughout their careers, but at least Malkin has been consistent about it. Forsberg played 242 games past the age of 27; Malkin has played almost double with 474 games past the same age. He’s simply been more relevant and useful for longer.

In terms of talent, Forsberg was never as good as Malkin. During his first 6 seasons, Malkin won 2 Art Rosses and was a runner up, won a Hart and was a two time runner up, nabbed a Pearson, and had possibly the greatest Conn Smythe winning run over the past 30 years. Forsberg has his own memorable seasons, but nothing like this.

 

[Video Nasty]

Offensive peak? Slightly. All these things are arguably in favour of Forsberg overall except longevity, which Malkin barely squeezes by with many injury troubles of his own over the years.

Forsberg also has a higher goals and points per game in the playoffs in a lower scoring era in roughly the same number of games while being better defensively. Not quite so clear cut really.

Forsberg also only played 36 playoff games past the age of 28. Malkin has played 71 playoff games past the age of 28. That plays into those numbers decreasing as one gets later into their career. I also wouldn’t call Malkin playing 17% more playoff games as of this moment as roughly the same number of games either.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Forsberg is the fish your grandpa caught 20 years ago that has been getting larger with each retelling of the story.

 

[centipede2233]

Super close, I’ll go malkin. Much better goal scorer.

 

[wetcoast]

I have them very close (around 20th top centre all time), but I do have Malkin ahead.

There are arguments for both guys but Foppa just brought it almost every NHL game...but I can see why Malkin would be considered higher.

 

[Regal]

Forsberg is the fish your grandpa caught 20 years ago that has been getting larger with each retelling of the story.

I think we’re at a point where there’s more people criticizing Forsberg for being overrated than there are people overrating him

 

[Dingo]

I think we’re at a point where there’s more people criticizing Forsberg for being overrated than there are people overrating him

I very strongly agree.

 

[dirtydanglez]

forsberg was without a doubt the better player.

 

[authentic]

I consider Forsberg’s peak to be the 2002 playoffs through his 37 game season in 03-04

188pts in 134 consecutive games. 20 of those being playoff games. In the lowest scoring era since …..? Ever? And a fourth place in Selke in the one fullish year in there, all of this starting after missing an entire year.

Malkin’s peak is great, too, but….. this is one of the best peaks…. I DO believe the next project should be on peaks….it’s a VERY good peak. FAR ahead of the league around him at the time. It’s the type of gap that Crosby has accomplished in the three broken seasons, Ovechkin in three full seasons, McDavid definitely, Jagr definitely, Lemieux of course and then, before million dollar salaries and an open welcome mat to all Europeans it happened fairly regularly - Wayne, Guy, Phil. Bobby, Gordie, etc.

I should look harder at Malkin, though. It’s true that when he was on he was arguably better than Sid and Ovie, and he has two Rosses. Im just not sure it’s a gimme.

Nothing wrong with a Geno pick here, btw. I’m just not sure everyone knows Forsberg’s peak was 134 games long, just how good it was when all around game is included, and that even for the first half of the 2005 season he was still considered the man and was off to a very hot start before the feet fell apart.

edit - ya, as I remembered he was hot in 2005. 50 points in his first 28 games, leading right up until Christmas. Then the end of Forsberg began to set in. He struggled through that season and couldn’t properly stand in his skates for the rest of his broken career,

I believe that is 238 points over 162 consecutive games. I believe Sid’s three broken years work out to about a 135pt season?, Forsberg’s work out to about 120. This is pretty close to equal considering era, and Forsberg actually did it over a much larger stretch of games, and many more consecutively. While playing a renowned all around game. For all of the ‘Forsberg is the most overrated player’ comments on these boards, I actually think his peak is underrated. I think it is arguably better than Sid’s, and I’ll admit I still don’t know about Geno’s, but I do accept that it could be even better.

Also during 2002-03 and 2003-04 he averaged under 20 minutes per game.

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Even if Jagr had been at his peak there how many more points per game was he getting with that ice time?

Super close, I’ll go malkin. Much better goal scorer.

Except in the playoffs funny enough

 

[Dingo]

oh, one thing that stands out to me about both of them is this - When the franchise centre that they were in the shadow of was injured, both became more productive. Becoming THE powerplay guy and also getting the best wingers. Malkin clearly had his best seasons when Crosby was hurt, and I feel that Forsberg’s peak came at a relatively late age for this reason as well.

 

[TheStatican]

Malkin has the better peak, better prime, and better longevity.

Pretty clear cut imo.

Agreed.

471 vs 249 goals and 1229 vs 885 points
Longevity = Malkin

top 10 ppg finishes 6 vs 3
top 5 ppg finishes 7 vs 5
top 3 ppg finishes 10 vs 8
Prime = Malkin

Best two full seasons(60+ games) adjusted to 2022-23 scoring levels;

Forsberg	1995-96	82	30	83	113		0.37	1.38
Forsberg	2002-03	75	34	91	125	137 in 82gm​	0.46	1.67

Malkin	2008-09	82	37	85	122		0.45	1.48
Malkin	2011-12	75	59	69	128	140 in 82gm​	0.79	1.71

Peak = Malkin


It's close though, close enough to be debated unlike the Malkin vs Kane thread.

 

[SillyRabbit]

Agreed.

471 vs 249 goals and 1229 vs 885 points
Longevity = Malkin

top 10 ppg finishes 6 vs 3
top 5 ppg finishes 7 vs 5
top 3 ppg finishes 10 vs 8
Prime = Malkin

Best two full seasons(60+ games) adjusted to 2022-23 scoring levels;

Forsberg	1995-96	82	30	83	113		0.37	1.38
Forsberg	2002-03	75	34	91	125	137 in 82gm​	0.46	1.67

Malkin	2008-09	82	37	85	122		0.45	1.48
Malkin	2011-12	75	59	69	128	140 in 82gm​	0.79	1.71

Peak = Malkin


It's close though, close enough to be debated unlike the Malkin vs Kane thread.

What about Forsberg's 200-foot game?

If we want to say that Malkin was superior offensively, I can get on board with that, but Forsberg was very scary to go up against on the defensive end as well.

 

[Despote]

Forsberg was significantly better defensively.

 

[Regal]

I preferred Forsberg’s game but it’s close and at this point I think Malkin’s just more accomplished

 

[MessierII]

Forsberg is an HF deity for some reason. Malkin is just better and I don’t see it as close.

 

[authentic]

Agreed.

471 vs 249 goals and 1229 vs 885 points
Longevity = Malkin

top 10 ppg finishes 6 vs 3
top 5 ppg finishes 7 vs 5
top 3 ppg finishes 10 vs 8
Prime = Malkin

Best two full seasons(60+ games) adjusted to 2022-23 scoring levels;

Forsberg	1995-96	82	30	83	113		0.37	1.38
Forsberg	2002-03	75	34	91	125	137 in 82gm​	0.46	1.67

Malkin	2008-09	82	37	85	122		0.45	1.48
Malkin	2011-12	75	59	69	128	140 in 82gm​	0.79	1.71

Peak = Malkin


It's close though, close enough to be debated unlike the Malkin vs Kane thread.

He has the regular season offensive edge, but that edge is lost in the playoffs where they were more or less equal offensively. Slight peak edge for Malkin but slight prime and career edge for Forsberg. Bringing their overall games into the equation only puts Forsberg on top for me if we're strictly talking about who the better player was.

Forsberg is an HF deity for some reason. Malkin is just better and I don’t see it as close.

The fact that you don't think it's close explains why you think Forsberg is an HF deity. The reason is fairly simple and you don't have to look much further than his career stats in the regular season and playoffs in a mostly low scoring era.