Best Pure Goal Scorers? Top 5?

[lextune]

- In 88-89, Lemieux puts up 85 goals in 76 games. A 92 goal pace.
- In 92-93, Lemieux has arguably the best single season performance by any player. 69g and 161pts... in 60 games. A 94g/219pt pace if not for the cancer.
- In 95-96, Lemieux puts up 69 goals in 70 games. An 81 goal pace.
- In 00-01, a 36 year old Lemieux scores 35 goals and 76 points in 43 games during the height of the defensive NHL. A 70g/150pt pace. Older and far out of his prime, he was still the best.

That's a goal scoring dominance that stretches from 88-01. The point being that what separates Lemieux from the rest of the pack is that, when healthy(for his standards), he was still an incredibly prolific goal scorer during the times when most everyone else saw a drop off. His game wasn't elevated by a certain type of hockey being played in a certain type of "era" as is the case for some others. He was so talented that he was the best no matter what kind of hockey was being played. For my money, there was nobody better at putting the puck in the net.

Slightly off topic; but Mario was also the game's best (or second best, depending on the year) playmaker that entire time as well.

 

[ThatOneGuy*]

1. Pavel Brendl
2. No care
3. No care
4. No care
5. No care

 

[sidewayzLEAFS]

bossy
bure
lemiuex
brett hull
maurice richard

with bobby hull and howe as honourable mentions

 

[Dark Shadows]

bossy
bure
lemiuex
brett hull
maurice richard

with bobby hull and howe as honourable mentions

Bobby Hull was way way better than his son Brett, and everyone mentioned was better than Bure.

 

[AleksandarN]

83-84 season

74game 87 118 205 Gretzky on pace to score 94 goals 128 assists for 222 points greatest season by anyone.

Gretzky should be the second best behind Hull and slightly above Bossy in my books. In the 80s there was no one who was the better goal scorer.

 

[TheSniper26]

In the 80s there was no one who was the better goal scorer.

And the 80's were arguably(note the "arguably" before anyone gets upset) the easiest decade to score a goal in the history of the NHL. The reason Gretzky's gaudy goal numbers from the 80's always bothered me is that such a large portion of those goals were ridiculous. Unscreened slappers and wristers from just inside the zone, weak shots along the ice, slow wraparounds with the goalie ridiculously out of position, etc. They never would have been scored in the 90's. And indeed they stopped going in by the time the 90's rolled around. From '89 forward, Gretzky had a hard time even getting over 40 goals. Or even scoring at a 40 goal pace. To use an obvious comparison, Lemieux put up big goal numbers in the 80's... and then still did in the 90's(despite major health issues). Because, as a goal scorer Lemieux had the necessary skills to adapt to the changes in the game. Gretzky didn't. Look, I'm not trying to take anything away from Gretzky. His passing and vision are untouchable and I genuinely believe that the "Greatest Player ever" claims are not that unfounded. But as a goal scorer, inflated numbers aside, he's nowhere near the best to me.

 

[+73*]

eh, i'd rank Jari Kurri ahead of Bossy.

Bossy: I believe that there is a a general consensus that Mike was the greatest pure goal scorer of all time.

Mario: Bossy's closest competition and a solid, stand alone, number two all time.

Esposito

Bobby Hull

Brett Hull

 

[thefifthsedin*]

A guy like say, Bure, was great at floating around at center ice and finishing a beautiful breakaway. But was he going to crash and bang in front of the net and take punishment to score a goal? Eh, not so much. For me, the best goal scorer is the guy that is dangerous from any spot on the ice. Any time of the game, any situation.

bure did crash and bang into the net, how do you think he received all his injuries? ... but his soul forbade him being a tomas holmström [or phil esposito!], standing in the crease and taking alms on the altar from a 5 on 3 power play with a nicklas lidström, steve yzerman, sergei fedorov, pavel datsyuk, henrik zetterberg line up

that's some major cherry picking right there

 

[seventieslord]

Like Jekyll, I hate the term "pure goal scorer".

But here are my top-5 goal scorers:

1. Bobby Hull
2. Maurice Richard
3. Mario Lemieux
4. Gordie Howe
5. Charlie Conacher

 

[seventieslord]

Why is Bossy such a shoo-in for the list? I see people declaring him as the #1 and saying that any list without him is a fail.

- He's 6th in top-2 seasons. Howe, Hull, Richard, Cook, and Esposito have him beat.
- He's 5th in top-5 seasons. Howe, Hull, Richard, and Lalonde have him beaten.
- He's 8th in top-10 seasons. Howe, Hull, Richard, Lalonde, and even Stewart, Cook, and Beliveau have him beaten.
- Due to lack of longevity, naturally a ton of players have more top-15 and top-20 seasons than him.

I mean, I could even be convinced to squeeze him into my top-5, but why should it be such a given?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Why is Bossy such a shoo-in for the list? I see people declaring him as the #1 and saying that any list without him is a fail.

- He's 6th in top-2 seasons. Howe, Hull, Richard, Cook, and Esposito have him beat.
- He's 5th in top-5 seasons. Howe, Hull, Richard, and Lalonde have him beaten.
- He's 8th in top-10 seasons. Howe, Hull, Richard, Lalonde, and even Stewart, Cook, and Beliveau have him beaten.
- Due to lack of longevity, naturally a ton of players have more top-15 and top-20 seasons than him.

I mean, I could even be convinced to squeeze him into my top-5, but why should it be such a given?

I'd say it may be because he scored 53 (in 73 games) right out of junior hockey and followed that with 8 straight +50 goal seasons (4 of them +60).

And the fact that he has the highest goals per game average in league history and is 2nd only to Mario in that category in the playoffs.

 

[seventieslord]

I'd say it may be because he scored 53 (in 73 games) right out of junior hockey and followed that with 8 straight +50 goal seasons (4 of them +60).

And the fact that he has the highest goals per game average in league history and is 2nd only to Mario in that category in the playoffs.

It's not that neither is unimpressive, but do players who played far beyond age 31 and/or peaked in an era other than the 1980s even have a shot at making such a claim?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Top 5 who haven't been mentioned yet:

1) Bobby Orr- what a d-man can't be mentioned?

2)Cam Neely- anyone else remember his 50 in 50 season? Neely did phenomenal things that nobody remembers just because he was such a bad-ass (and like Bobby his career/ability suffered due to injury). Had 2 skill plays that were included in TSN's top 80 plays of the 80's.

PS- I'm most definitely NOT a Bruins fan.

3)Steve Shutt and Guy Lafleur- Somewhat surprised Guy hasn't been mentioned yet.....not at all surprised Shutt hasn't. Shutt was probably a "purer" scorer though because he never had mind blowing speed that Guy had. He was just always in the right place at the right time.

4) Selanne and Mogilny- both had 76 goal seasons- both needed elite passers to help them get to that mark (Housley and Lafontaine). Nobody ever held it against Brett Hull that all his best seasons were with Oates right?

5) Reggie Leach- he was as gifted as almost any player on anybody's list. He was Bossy before Bossy...imagine what he could've done if he was sober in his prime.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Why is Bossy such a shoo-in for the list? I see people declaring him as the #1 and saying that any list without him is a fail.

- He's 6th in top-2 seasons. Howe, Hull, Richard, Cook, and Esposito have him beat.
- He's 5th in top-5 seasons. Howe, Hull, Richard, and Lalonde have him beaten.
- He's 8th in top-10 seasons. Howe, Hull, Richard, Lalonde, and even Stewart, Cook, and Beliveau have him beaten.
- Due to lack of longevity, naturally a ton of players have more top-15 and top-20 seasons than him.

I mean, I could even be convinced to squeeze him into my top-5, but why should it be such a given?

I agree.

He is one of the best ever, no doubt. But top 5 is not a guarantee. Top 15 is guaranteed and top 10 is pretty close to guaranteed, but top 5 isn't.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Just going to rank players I've actually seen.

1. Lemieux
2. Gretzky
3. Bossy
4. Hull
5. Ovechkin

T6. Bure/Krutov

 

[Diagonaali]

1. Selänne
2. Kurri
3. umm...

Not too many finnish players with that sniper talent, I guess...

 

[Blogtalk Avry]

1. Gretzky
2.Messier
3.Phil Esposito
4.Maurice Richard
this may shock some
5.Tim Kerr (hey, he did have two years of 58 goals and if he wasnt injury prone he would have been a 60 goal scorer).

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

1. Gretzky
2.Messier
3.Phil Esposito
4.Maurice Richard
this may shock some
5.Tim Kerr (hey, he did have two years of 58 goals and if he wasnt injury prone he would have been a 60 goal scorer).

Messier is just as suprising as Tim Kerr. His career high is 50 goals, and he never led the league in goals.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Why is Bossy such a shoo-in for the list? I see people declaring him as the #1 and saying that any list without him is a fail.

- He's 6th in top-2 seasons. Howe, Hull, Richard, Cook, and Esposito have him beat.
- He's 5th in top-5 seasons. Howe, Hull, Richard, and Lalonde have him beaten.
- He's 8th in top-10 seasons. Howe, Hull, Richard, Lalonde, and even Stewart, Cook, and Beliveau have him beaten.
- Due to lack of longevity, naturally a ton of players have more top-15 and top-20 seasons than him.

I mean, I could even be convinced to squeeze him into my top-5, but why should it be such a given?

It's because of the term, "pure goal scorer."

Bossy's job on the ice was to score goals, and he would do anything to score them. Gretzky and Lemieux didn't stand in front of the net getting beaten "doing whatever it takes" to score goals. Of course, they were more effective handling the puck and setting up plays than standing in front of the net, but I guess it takes away from their "pureness." Gretzky was a better playmaker than goalscorer and Lemieux was probably equal in both aspects of the game, so I guess this takes away from their "pureness," as well.

 

[seventieslord]

Nice post, Devil.

LOL @ the term "pure" and its ambiguity.

 

[SchennSational1022*]

not in order

bure
gretzky
ovechkin
lemieux
brett hull

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

It's because of the term, "pure goal scorer."

Bossy's job on the ice was to score goals, and he would do anything to score them. Gretzky and Lemieux didn't stand in front of the net getting beaten "doing whatever it takes" to score goals. Of course, they were more effective handling the puck and setting up plays than standing in front of the net, but I guess it takes away from their "pureness." Gretzky was a better playmaker than goalscorer and Lemieux was probably equal in both aspects of the game, so I guess this takes away from their "pureness," as well.

Exactly.

The intent here appears to be moving toward the best players who, as a result of being the best offensive players, score the most goals. The vast majority of the time the pure goal scorer will have more goals than assists.

 

[Dark Shadows]

Why is Bossy such a shoo-in for the list? I see people declaring him as the #1 and saying that any list without him is a fail.

- He's 6th in top-2 seasons. Howe, Hull, Richard, Cook, and Esposito have him beat.
- He's 5th in top-5 seasons. Howe, Hull, Richard, and Lalonde have him beaten.
- He's 8th in top-10 seasons. Howe, Hull, Richard, Lalonde, and even Stewart, Cook, and Beliveau have him beaten.
- Due to lack of longevity, naturally a ton of players have more top-15 and top-20 seasons than him.

I mean, I could even be convinced to squeeze him into my top-5, but why should it be such a given?

Well, in fairness, like many other comparisons, people compare what he would have done without Gretzky in the picture. Gretzky tends to make everyone look a bit worse than the average competition, much like Orr made Park's Norris finishes look less appealing.


His finishes without Gretzky in the picture likely look like this:
2, 1, 5, 1, 1, 2, 5, 2, 2 (Its possible that Bossy edges out Kurri in one of the last 2nd place years, but Ill assume not. In the 3rd last year where he moves up to 5th place its likely, since Kurri only beat him by a single goal)