Best Program for Producing Talent

[Joe Hallenback]

WHL

Kelowna
Vancouver
Calgary
Saskatoon
Brandon
Spokane

 

[The Exiled One]

Minnesota Red of the HS Elite League NIT
2009 - Nick Leddy
2008 - Jake Gardiner
2007 - Ryan McDonough, Patrick White
2006 - David Fischer

2010 could add another with Brock Nelson.

 

[thomasincanada]

Just for fun:

The NHL version of the London Knights.

R Nash - D Bolland - P Kane
C Perry - J Tavares - S Kostitsyn
R Schremp - S Gagner - D Fritsche
B Prust - C Kelly - K Barch
T Kostopolous

D Wideman - M Del Zotto
D Girardi - J Carlson
M Pelech -D Syvret
J Erskine


Steve Mason
Adam Dennis
Gerald Coleman

Defense and goaltending is pretty bad but the offense is actually decent. Lots of players in the AHL that could make a jump, plus a few that are still playing for the knights. (Kadri, McRae, and Varone)

I'd put Marc Methot as Wideman's partner on the first defense pairing, and move Del Zotto to the second pairing with Girardi. I'd say this team is a NHL playoff team but that might just be bias.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

How many of those London players were originally drafted by the team and not acquired via trades and other scuttlebutt

 

[SPORTSMANIAC]

This summer I created teams in NHL 08 making all time teams in juniors and college.

Here are the teams I created that I know of off the top of my head

Juniors

London Knights (OHL)
Sudbury Wolves (OHL)
Saulte Ste. Marie Grey Hounds (OHL)
Kelowna Rockets (WHL)
Kamloops Blazers (WHL)
Lewiston Maineiacs (QMJHL) I know not a lot of NHL talent but I live in Lewiston.

Colleges

Michigan (CCHA)
Michigan St. (CCHA)
Wisconsin (WCHA)
Minnesota (WCHA
BU (Hockey East)
BC (Hockey East)
Maine (Hockey East)

High School

Shattuck St. Mary's

I wanted to make some more teams but never got to them.

 

[thomasincanada]

How many of those London players were originally drafted by the team and not acquired via trades and other scuttlebutt

You'd have to drop Tavares, Fritsche, Girardi, Dennis from the list. Some other guys were traded for but played like 3+ years for the knights like Schremp, Wideman, etc.

 

[JL17]

The Knights acquire talent. They have produced some acquired some and traded away some.

As for producing talent from the draft till they leave Windsor and Kitchener seem to do a good job. Vancouver, Calgary also.

 

[JeromeHP]

rimouski oceanic

Sidney Crosby
Brad Richards
Vinny Lecavalier
Michael Frolik
Ryane Clowe
Aaron Johnsson
Sebastien Caron (former nhler)
Eric Belanger
Juraj Kolnik (former nhler)


not bad for a team who has only being there since 1995

 

[JL17]

Just for fun:

The NHL version of the London Knights.

R Nash - D Bolland - P Kane
C Perry - J Tavares - S Kostitsyn
R Schremp - S Gagner - D Fritsche
B Prust - C Kelly - K Barch
T Kostopolous

D Wideman - M Del Zotto
D Girardi - J Carlson
M Pelech -D Syvret
J Erskine


Steve Mason
Adam Dennis
Gerald Coleman

Defense and goaltending is pretty bad but the offense is actually decent. Lots of players in the AHL that could make a jump, plus a few that are still playing for the knights. (Kadri, McRae, and Varone)

Mason and Coleman developed scratch Dennis.

On D they acquired Wideman but made him into what he is now. Pelech was acquired then trade so no development there. Del Zotto the same he's a General in my eyes. Girardi acquired. Methot and Syvert we're developed. Carlson is 50/50.

Kane and Gagner are the same boat as Carlson. Tavares, Fristche acquired. Out the forward group Kostitsyn, Bolland, Perry, Nash, Prust, Barch and Schremp were developed by them.

 

[leafmon]

You'd have to drop Tavares, Fritsche, Girardi, Dennis from the list. Some other guys were traded for but played like 3+ years for the knights like Schremp, Wideman, etc.

You also have to temper the London and lately Windsor situations with recruiting of players or drafting them late (Kane) and in Windsors case Hall.
Take Harrington this year who was going to go top five and then sends a letter out a few days before the draft saying he is going the US route . BANG ,he gets drafted at 18 and London will have another first round pick.

I not looking to argue this point but it does affect the question asked here.

The Gens have put a large number in the NHL and I believe they hold the record for having 10 drafted the year Savard was around but I''ll give the Petes their props because I believe nobody has put more players in the NHL then they have.

 

[masterandy]

Just for fun:

The NHL version of the London Knights.

R Nash - D Bolland - P Kane
C Perry - J Tavares - S Kostitsyn
R Schremp - S Gagner - D Fritsche
B Prust - C Kelly - K Barch
T Kostopolous

D Wideman - M Del Zotto
K Quincey - J Carlson
D Girardi -D Syvret
J Erskine


Steve Mason
Adam Dennis
Gerald Coleman

Fixed! That would be one helluva line-up

 

[RangerRed]

I think with the nature of OHL trades, you have to institute a rule similar to the Baseball HOF "hat" policy. Where the player's team allegiance after they graduate from the League. For example, Tavares spent three and a half seasons in Oshawa and less than half a season in London; he's an Oshawa General.

In the event that a player spends half his career in two different cities, (e.g. Nazem Kadri), I think there are three ways of doing it. You can split his allegiance and list him accordingly (Kitchener/London); you can go by where he played the most games (130 in Kitchener v. 113 in London - assuming he plays the last 18 games this season); or you can go by where he had his biggest OHL accolade (won an OHL Championship in Kitchener). The preferred method of determining allegiance is up to the independent judgment of the person.

 

[CharlieGirl]

I''ll give the Petes their props because I believe nobody has put more players in the NHL then they have.

I'm pretty sure that's correct. And Brampton, considering the age of that franchise, has an impressive list of graduates.

 

[The Exiled One]

This summer I created teams in NHL 08 making all time teams in juniors and college.

Here are the teams I created that I know of off the top of my head

Juniors

London Knights (OHL)
Sudbury Wolves (OHL)
Saulte Ste. Marie Grey Hounds (OHL)
Kelowna Rockets (WHL)
Kamloops Blazers (WHL)
Lewiston Maineiacs (QMJHL) I know not a lot of NHL talent but I live in Lewiston.

Colleges

Michigan (CCHA)
Michigan St. (CCHA)
Wisconsin (WCHA)
Minnesota (WCHA
BU (Hockey East)
BC (Hockey East)
Maine (Hockey East)

High School

Shattuck St. Mary's

I wanted to make some more teams but never got to them.

You could do an all Eveleth HS team, they've got 10 NHL'ers... two of which are HOF'ers.

 

[thomasincanada]

I beleive the number is 4 going back to 1976 which is the highest for any club/program.

It's 5 - Tavares, Kane, Nash, Ramage & Green

 

[JL17]

It's 5 - Tavares, Kane, Nash, Ramage & Green

Can we saying Tavares is actually a Knight?? He was developed by the Gens. I see him as a Gen just like MDZ.

 

[cosmicnavigator]

What happened to Weinhandl?
Can anybody give me a short overview of his career?

He was considerd as good as the Sedin twins but he got a stick in one of his eyes (blind one eye) that set him back.

He now is one of the top scorers in the KHL, still think he could put up 50-60 points in the NHL if hes playing with a good playmaker.

 

[lillypad33]

I wish that I could understand why the NCAA considers the OHL guys to be professionals...

Basicly, they get paid a perdiem for food and small entertainment, while earning tuition rights based on the time they've played.

The NCAA gives out scholarships which are worth much more, but don't consider themselves to be professional...

Anyways... I think that the perfect system of development would be to allow the players to play from 16-19 in the CHL, and then go on to the NCAA at ages 19-22.

As it is now, the guys who are playing in the NCAA either come from:
USNDTP
USHL
CHA Jr. A in Canada...

Wouldn't their fan base, and their talent base be larger in the NCAA if they allowed these CHL 'Professionals' to play?

 

[thomasincanada]

Can we saying Tavares is actually a Knight?? He was developed by the Gens. I see him as a Gen just like MDZ.

The knights did little to develop Tavares, no argument here.

However I was strictly speaking #1 picks the knights have had, regardless of where they developed, and he is one of them.

 

[MN_Gopher]

I wish that I could understand why the NCAA considers the OHL guys to be professionals...

Basicly, they get paid a perdiem for food and small entertainment, while earning tuition rights based on the time they've played.

The NCAA gives out scholarships which are worth much more, but don't consider themselves to be professional...

Anyways... I think that the perfect system of development would be to allow the players to play from 16-19 in the CHL, and then go on to the NCAA at ages 19-22.

As it is now, the guys who are playing in the NCAA either come from:
USNDTP
USHL
CHA Jr. A in Canada...



Wouldn't their fan base, and their talent base be larger in the NCAA if they allowed these CHL 'Professionals' to play?

One giant problem right away. How would you stop players from jumping ship. If you were in the CHL and did not like it. Ask for a trade or threaten to go the NCAA early. It could really ruin some franchises. Think of all the leverage these kids could have.

You have to place strict rules on age limit. Transfering back and forth. AHL elegibilty. You would need the NCAA and the CHL governing body sit down and agree in certain criteria.

I would like it if it was done right. But i doubt both sides along with the NHL will ever agree to plan that makes sense for boh sides.

 

[SPORTSMANIAC]

You could do an all Eveleth HS team, they've got 10 NHL'ers... two of which are HOF'ers.

I used just existing players in the game plus prospects I created...These aren't true all-time teams I created...I should have made that clear.

I also did the Peterborough Petes

 

[Granlund2Pulkkinen*]

LA Jr Kings
Team Illinois
Compuware
USNTDP
Little Caesars
Chicago Mission
Shattuck St. Mary's

 

[Rally Donkey]

I wish that I could understand why the NCAA considers the OHL guys to be professionals...

Basicly, they get paid a perdiem for food and small entertainment, while earning tuition rights based on the time they've played.

The NCAA gives out scholarships which are worth much more, but don't consider themselves to be professional...

Anyways... I think that the perfect system of development would be to allow the players to play from 16-19 in the CHL, and then go on to the NCAA at ages 19-22.

As it is now, the guys who are playing in the NCAA either come from:
USNDTP
USHL
CHA Jr. A in Canada...

Wouldn't their fan base, and their talent base be larger in the NCAA if they allowed these CHL 'Professionals' to play?

As for your last question, the answer is No Doubt. But, a lot of the CHL kids (say top half) are negotiating full tuition (ie. scholarships) plus more in some exceptional cases before playing a single game. The minimum is one year of tuition & books per year played (which means you're on the bottom of the incoming class or you have a terrible agent). I don't know what the top end is, but I've heard it's well beyond tuition & books (think cash, cars, & more). That kind of flexibility for the fortunate few definitely puts the entire thing out of bounds by NCAA standards - that's why. If they all they offerred was tuition and books for each year, they'd never get the same level of players to bolt from the NCAA, USHL, etc. (at least not the Americans) imho

 

[KRM]

In Sweden it was MODO but talent goes to other places now

MODO is not the best team in Sweden for producing talent, not even top five. Yes they had an unreal '73 crop and then also the Sedins and Hedman, but outside of that they have produced few players compared to other Swedish teams, and their junior program is no where near the top.

Frölunda, Djurgården, and Brynäs. That's Sweden's three best junior programs.

 

[pdxshark]

How quickly we forget...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_Winterhawks#NHL_alumni

Some of those are stupid (mike vernon played one memorial cup with the hawks and mark messier was an insane small amount of games) but over the hawks history they've put a lot of players into the NHL.

Been a bit since we've put any good prospects forward (dubinsky/sauer were probably the last two) but this draft year and next will be big for the hawks.

As for developing talent, how many people thought ryan johansen would be a potential first/secound rounder before the season? Who in the WHL drafted troy rutkowski? Nobody. Hawks listed him at training camp and now he's a very promising young defenseman who will likely go in the first two rounds.

Londons recent history is very impressive but the hawks certainly should not be forgotten.