Best of the Rest: John MacLean

[Richer's Ghost]

has anyone championed Mac as HOF worthy? I wouldn't.

 

[Bleedred]

I absolutely don't think he's hall of fame worthy. They even seem to induct certain players like it's nothing, like Bure and some of the players Jim mentioned. I still don't think so though. I've heard some good arguments for Claude Lemieux though. Not sure if I feel he's HOF worthy either.

Elias is borderline, but I have a feeling he might get snubbed. Perhaps not if he has another 3 or 4 years left and playing near the level he has as of this past season. He could have really beefed up his career production if he didn't miss half of the first year post lockout/inflated stats year, especially with the pace he was on when he actually did return. I'd say that easily cost him about 50 career points, maybe more.

 

[Missionhockey]

I absolutely don't think he's hall of fame worthy. They even seem to induct certain players like it's nothing, like Bure and some of the players Jim mentioned. I still don't think so though. I've heard some good arguments for Claude Lemieux though. Not sure if I feel he's HOF worthy either.

Elias is borderline, but I have a feeling he might get snubbed. Perhaps not if he has another 3 or 4 years left and playing near the level he has as of this past season. He could have really beefed up his career production if he didn't miss half of the first year post lockout/inflated stats year, especially with the pace he was on when he actually did return. I'd say that easily cost him about 50 career points, maybe more.

I think what will ultimately cost Elias are the lack of individual awards. He might have more of an argument if he received the Conn Smythe in 2000. Unfortunately he's never lead the league in goals or points or had a 100 point season. You might think Bure is unworthy, but he lead the league in goals 3 times. His case was much stronger than Patrik's.

 

[GentlemanOfLeisure]

Screw Brad Dalgarno.

 

[Bleedred]

I think what will ultimately cost Elias are the lack of individual awards. He might have more of an argument if he received the Conn Smythe in 2000. Unfortunately he's never lead the league in goals or points or had a 100 point season. You might think Bure is unworthy, but he lead the league in goals 3 times. His case was much stronger than Patrik's.

Bure wasn't even in the league that long. He played for like 12 years? I think he last played at age 31. Neely last played at age 31 also.

Not saying either were a bum, but their HOF inductions were pretty generous. And I know it isn't their faults that injuries cut their careers short at young ages.

 

[Missionhockey]

Bure wasn't even in the league that long. He played for like 12 years? I think he last played at age 31. Neely last played at age 31 also.

Not saying either were a bum, but their HOF inductions were pretty generous. And I know it isn't their faults that injuries cut their careers short at young ages.

Bobby Orr was only in the NHL for 12 years, I don't see anybody questioning his credentials. Neely I can see, but he was before my time to be honest. I think Bure should be in there though for sure.

 

[Bleedred]

Bobby Orr was only in the NHL for 12 years, I don't see anybody questioning his credentials. Neely I can see, but he was before my time to be honest. I think Bure should be in there though for sure.

I don't see how Bure and Neely were any different. Both had similar production and games played, though Neely did play in more of a higher scoring era.

I'm not old enough for Orr, but I think he had a much bigger impact on the game than either of those guys. I've heard many old timers claim Orr was the greatest player of all time. I can't say for sure. Orr retired before I was born I think.

 

[Missionhockey]

I don't see how Bure and Neely were any different. Both had similar production and games played, though Neely did play in more of a higher scoring era.

I'm not old enough for Orr, but I think he had a much bigger impact on the game than either of those guys. I've heard many old timers claim Orr was the greatest player of all time. I can't say for sure. Orr retired before I was born I think.

Just looking at the stats:

Bure: GP: 702 G:437 A342 P:779

Neely: GP: 726 G:395 A:299 P:694

Bure had two 100 point seasons and lead the league in goals 3 times. Neely never did either although he could have if his seasons weren't cut short.

 

[billingtons ghost]

I think what will ultimately cost Elias are the lack of individual awards. He might have more of an argument if he received the Conn Smythe in 2000. Unfortunately he's never lead the league in goals or points or had a 100 point season. You might think Bure is unworthy, but he lead the league in goals 3 times. His case was much stronger than Patrik's.

I love Patty - but he pretty much defines the type of player who shouldn't be in the hall of fame. He's a very good player, and a credit to the franchise - but he's not an HOFer.

 

[billingtons ghost]

btw, what the hell was the guy talking about with 'could beat the crap out of you'.

Johnny Mac was a paper doll, man -

 

[Devils Dominion]

Screw Brad Dalgarno.

Next chant at The Rock, Dalgarno sucks.

 

[Bleedred]

Just looking at the stats:

Bure: GP: 702 G:437 A342 P:779

Neely: GP: 726 G:395 A:299 P:694

Bure had two 100 point seasons and lead the league in goals 3 times. Neely never did either although he could have if his seasons weren't cut short.

I was wrong. I was actually thinking Neely was at a closer PPG pace to what Bure was on, but it appears Bure was a bit higher.

Still not too fond of either in the HOF, but neither did go in until about 6 or 7 years after eligibility.

Kind of off topic, but I remember a main board debate a couple of years ago. Would Ovechkin and Crosby be hall of famers if their careers ended today? I think both probably would. Both have multiple Hart Trophies I believe? Does Ovechkin have an Art Ross?

 

[TheUnseenHand]

I was wrong. I was actually thinking Neely was at a closer PPG pace to what Bure was on, but it appears Bure was a bit higher.

Still not too fond of either in the HOF, but neither did go in until about 6 or 7 years after eligibility.

Kind of off topic, but I remember a main board debate a couple of years ago. Would Ovechkin and Crosby be hall of famers if their careers ended today? I think both probably would. Both have multiple Hart Trophies I believe? Does Ovechkin have an Art Ross?

Crosby would be in the HOF if his career ended after one game...

 

[Desert Devil]

I grew up as an outsider to the organization. I lived in Chicago for the first few years I was a Devils fan probably starting in 96 or 97. It's hard for me to really understand how much of an impact he had on the Devils, but I definitely respect what he was able to do for the Devils. I honestly don't even think about the short tenure as a coach when he was here, nor does it ruin my respect or opinion of him. He was a great player, one of New Jersey's best, but he doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame in my opinion. Too many players make it in already. This is what retiring, or honoring, numbers are for.

Crosby would be in the HOF if his career ended after one game...

I don't think so at all. If either were hurt now, then yes, there would be a serious argument for them. But after one game? I don't think so at all.

What really are the requirements for being a HOF selectee? Is it a long career with mostly dominance? A long career of dominance alone? I view the HOF as a place for the very elite, not those who played long enough to earn them records in certain categories.

 

[Missionhockey]

I was wrong. I was actually thinking Neely was at a closer PPG pace to what Bure was on, but it appears Bure was a bit higher.

Still not too fond of either in the HOF, but neither did go in until about 6 or 7 years after eligibility.

Kind of off topic, but I remember a main board debate a couple of years ago. Would Ovechkin and Crosby be hall of famers if their careers ended today? I think both probably would. Both have multiple Hart Trophies I believe? Does Ovechkin have an Art Ross?

If you consider the amount of hardware they have I really don't see how you could leave them out.

 

[devilsblood]

No way is Mac a hall of famer.

Not even close to Bure's level.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I love Patty - but he pretty much defines the type of player who shouldn't be in the hall of fame. He's a very good player, and a credit to the franchise - but he's not an HOFer.

Elias is better than like 1/4 of the modern players in the HHOF. If he did what he did in Toronto, he'd be called a 1st ballot lock by the media. Speaking of Toronto, I don't see what Mats Sundin has on Elias.

As for this topic, MacLean is probably the best Devil with absolutely no shot at the Hall

 

[devilsblood]

What if Patty gets to 500 goals?

 

[schoenfeld]

patty has an outside chance at 500, 1000 points is within his grasp right now.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

patty has an outside chance at 500, 1000 points is within his grasp right now.

If Patty gets to those numbers, he should be a lock, considering that he spent most of his career as the best offensive player of a very successful defense-first team. If he played for a lesser team that gave him more ice time and didn't ask him to play a two-way game, how much greater would his numbers be?

Not to mention, Elias was the leading playoff scorer of the first decade of the 21st century (obviously 3 trips to the finals helped, but Elias was a big part of those teams).

 

[TheUnseenHand]

I don't think so at all. If either were hurt now, then yes, there would be a serious argument for them. But after one game? I don't think so at all.

What really are the requirements for being a HOF selectee? Is it a long career with mostly dominance? A long career of dominance alone? I view the HOF as a place for the very elite, not those who played long enough to earn them records in certain categories.

That was a pretty tongue-in-cheek type comment jabbing at the NHLs, and particularly Gary Bettmans, love affair with Crosby and the pens.