Best French Footballer of all time

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

No tie, Umtiti all day long.

I knew you had problems. SMH

 

[Stray Wasp]

Ntcham obviously

Platini it is although Zidane would be the consensus choice in France right now. But legends aren't always accurate (see Maradona).
Platini was the Ballon d'Or three straight years. Nobody could touch him.
He took his team to the semis in the 82 WC before the refs and Schumacher ended his dream (and I have them winning the final), he got red hot for Euro 84 where he managed to set a scoring record that might never be broken. And then he willed France to the 86 semis by beating the best team in the world then in the QF. All of this while being the captain, leader and inspiring presence.

ZZ OTOH, while supremely talented, didn't weigh on WC 98 before the final. In fact, his only impact before the final was negative (red card). He played very well in Euro 00, but even then, the team around him weighed more than him. He had a great WC06, but Vieira was the guy doing the work and then he blew a fuse in the final NT game of his career. Possibly costing a WC (we'll never know).
In club career, he was never the obvious best player in the world. Ronaldo and others won Ballon d'Or over him. He was always among the best, but never clearly the best.

Possibly most elegant player to watch on the pitch. But Platini was all about efficiency.

As for the others, they're not in the discussion, even Kopa's wonderful career, even Fontaine's crazy WC record, etc...

I see you've managed to turn the conversation into being all about French football again. Predictable. Disgraceful.

I'd like to add something about Zidane's club career- it's often forgotten that going into WC 98 there were question marks over his performances in both the 97 and 98 European Cup final defeats. Unless memory misleads me, Juventus were favourites in both games- certainly 97.

Equally, from 1998 through to 2001 Juventus won only the Intertoto Cup. Zidane's replacement with Pavel Nedved in 2001, by contrast, was followed by successive league titles. (And when Zidane's Real Madrid met Nedved's Juve in the 2003 European Cup semis, look what happened).

A great player, yet his talent didn't translate to as many trophies as might have been expected- particularly if you take into account that when he joined Juve in 1996 they were reigning European club champions, and by Zidane rolled up at Real Madrid in 2001, they had won the same trophy twice in three years.

 

[les Habs]

I knew you had problems. SMH

I just have a long term view and can see things into the future. Don't worry, you'll see it eventually.

 

[Albatros]

Equally, from 1998 through to 2001 Juventus won only the Intertoto Cup. Zidane's replacement with Pavel Nedved in 2001, by contrast, was followed by successive league titles. (And when Zidane's Real Madrid met Nedved's Juve in the 2003 European Cup semis, look what happened).

Nedvěd was a fine player and proved his worth to Juventus later on, but the key signings turning things around on the field in 2001 were Buffon and Thuram. Nedvěd was no upgrade.

 

[le_sean]

It’s unfair to say Zidane wasn’t a factor in 1998 until the final. He played in 5 games and was a factor in 5 goals. Plus brushing aside that he scored a brace in the most important match against a top team is silly. He was player of the tournament in Euro 2000 and in WC 2006.

Was he a part of strong national teams? Yeah, defensively. But offensively he was the only one with any creativity.

This other stuff about his club performances is nonsense. Man of the match in 2002 CL final with the greatest CL final goal in history.

Is he the greatest player of all time? No. But is there anyone else that I would take to win me a single important match? Nope. That accounts for a lot.

 

[Evilo]

98's ZZ is pure myth.
He contributed against South Africa in the first game. Big deal. Then against Saudi Arabia, big deal. Then he got red carded for idiocy. That is a bigger deal.
Then when he came back (team barely managed to beat Paraguay thanks to Blanc), he was a non factor in the QF against Italy. He was also a non factor against Croatia (Thuram won that and Djorkaeff for the great assist).
Then the final.

So how was he a factor in this WC before the final? He wasn't.
In the final he scored two headers on set plays because right before the game Jacquet told him there was a weakness at the first post of the brazilian defense on corners.
He didn't score out of magic, talent or anything. In fact, he rarely scored in corners in his career.
In 00, he had a wonderful core around him and again, when it counted (read QF and final for instance), others carried the team.
In 06, Vieira was easily the best french player. ZZ was wonderful to watch, but he barely ran. Vieira was everywhere. Team wouldn't have been through the group stage without Vieira and Ribery.

ZZ's amazing to watch, but was never the main player for the french team. He needed a great support to win (arguable best defense ever in 98 and an allstar team in 00).

As for club career, as I said, he was never the number one for a stretch. Arguably top 3 all the time. Never the clear best.

 

[Power Man]

Zidane and Platini were good, but nowhere near as good as Eric Di Meco

 

[Bon Esprit]

I don't even like Platini as a UEFA person, but he was really good as a player.

 

[le_sean]

In 06, Vieira was easily the best french player. ZZ was wonderful to watch, but he barely ran. Vieira was everywhere. Team wouldn't have been through the group stage without Vieira and Ribery.

ZZ's amazing to watch, but was never the main player for the french team. He needed a great support to win (arguable best defense ever in 98 and an allstar team in 00).

Lol Ribéry didn’t do anything in 2006 other than the Spain game.

15 GIFs That Sum Up Zinedine Zidane’s Flawless 2006 World Cup Performance

Maybe you should read this instead of just putting it all on the shoulders of Vieira. He was clinical offensively. He’s not Kanté who just runs and runs, so basing him off that is odd.

 

[Ceremony]

I'm sure Evilo will be convinced by some 200 pixel wide gifs.

 

[Evilo]

Seriously?
Maybe you should have watched the games before saying anything about WC 06.
You just said Ribery didn't do anything before the Spain game? Seriously?
He's the one that dynamited Togo in the last game when we couldn't score (well Trez did but the ref unjustly called it off). And guess who was the other player that finished with 1 goal and 1 assist? Zidane? No, Vieira.

Let's sum up Zidane's impact offensively (clinical as you said).
First game : 0-0 against Switzerland
Second game : 1-1 against Korea (Henry scores after a Wiltord play, no ZZ involved).
Third and decisive game : 2-0 against Togo with two second period goals by Vieira (assist by Ribery) and Henry (assist by Vieira). ZZ was ONCE AGAIN suspended and didn't play. Weirdly enough we won that game.

So ZZ's impact in the group stage : ZERO.

Let's move on to the knockout stage.

France 3-1 Spain.
Spain opens the scoring on a penalty.
France ties the game by Ribery. Who got the assist? Patrick MF Vieira.
Then who scores the game winner? Patrick MF Vieira. Kudos to Zidane, he shot the FK that Vieira scored on. First assist by ZZ in the tournament.
He follows that with a late goal after a Wiltord assist.
ZZ was super elegant in that game. Yet who won it? Vieira.

France 1-0 Brazil.
Another super elegant performance by ZZ and an assist on a set play on Henry's goal.
Semi final now. Who won the game? Henry. And the D.

France 1-0 Portugal.
Carvahlo fouls Henry. ZZ scores the ensuing penalty. Portugal pushes hard, especially in the dying minutes. Defense and DMs worked hard and did the job. Who won the game? The D.

Final : France 1-1 Italy
ZZ scores on a penalty he didn't obtain. Henry and Ribery had some dangerous chances but couldn't score. And ZZ is red carded.
Who lost the game? Tough to say what could have happenned without the red card, but it's hardly something to ignore.

So again, would France have reached the semis without Vieira and also Ribery? Not a chance. Without ZZ? Most likely.

So who was the best player for France in 06?
ZZ finished with a suspension in the group stage, a red card in the final, 3 goals including 2 off penalties he didn't obtain, and 2 assists on set plays. His only play that wasn't a set play or a penalty was the late goal he scored against Spain when we were leading 2-1 already.
Vieira finished with 2 goals, 2 assists, total defensive domination and zero suspension. All his goals or assists were either game tying or game winning goals/assists.
Henry finished with 3 goals and a penalty obtained in the SF. All his goals were also impactful.

 

[le_sean]

I'm sure Evilo will be convinced by some 200 pixel wide gifs.

It’s probably a waste of my time anyways for someone whose criticism is that “Zidane barely ran”

I’m sure he was simply awarded player of the tournament in 2000 and 2006 because of his looks.

 

[Evilo]

No, he was awarded in 06 because he was a joy to watch, that it was his swan song, that the romantics loved the way he came back to his NT and lead them to the final.
That's simply not how it happenned though. Vieira did more.

As for 98, Leboeuf said it the other day : "I'm fed up with people hyping ZZ for the 98 WC win. Guy didn't show up before the final and the whole team played hard to get there yet he gets all the praise".

 

[Evilo]

As for 00, the whole team was magic. ZZ getting the award is hardly wrong, but several other players could have had it.

 

[le_sean]

Interesting that you say “big deal” to Zidane performing against South Africa in 1998 but your first point about Ribéry is a performance against Togo.

You’re just clearly finding reasons to hate on Zidane. That’s fine. Just a waste of time for me.

 

[Evilo]

Erh, you've lost the plot mate.
In 98, we won 7-0 against SA and SA.
In 06, we were out if we didn't beat Togo and we couldn't score on them until Ribery and Vieira found the net.

 

[Albatros]

As for 98, Leboeuf said it the other day : "I'm fed up with people hyping ZZ for the 98 WC win. Guy didn't show up before the final and the whole team played hard to get there yet he gets all the praise".

Is this the same Leboeuf that himself started in one meaningless group stage match and then again in the final?

 

[Suiteness]

I always thought that, from the same era, Rivaldo was, pound for pound, a superior footballer to Zidane. From reading this thread, I'd say Rivaldo had a better mix of artistry and efficiency than Zidane. Sadly, for all his qualities, the general opinion seems stuck on remembering Rivaldo for his diving antics against Turkey rather than his hat trick against Valencia for instance.

 

[Evilo]

Is this the same Leboeuf that himself started in one meaningless group stage match and then again in the final?

And? Did he say HE was the one responsible?
No he pointed to the team. And he's damn right.

 

[Albatros]

And? Did he say HE was the one responsible?
No he pointed to the team. And he's damn right.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if we choose a reasonably neutral and analytical one like the respected German football magazine Kicker that rates individual performances in every game from 1 (best) to 6 (worst), then Zidane was the second best French player in the tournament after Thuram (1,92) with his average rating of 2,00. In no game was he rated lower than 2,5 which is still a fine performance.

 

[Stray Wasp]

98's ZZ is pure myth.
In the final he scored two headers on set plays because right before the game Jacquet told him there was a weakness at the first post of the brazilian defense on corners.
He didn't score out of magic, talent or anything. In fact, he rarely scored in corners in his career.

The detail about Jacquet's briefing is one I'd never before heard, but fascinating to learn.

 

[Evilo]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if we choose a reasonably neutral and analytical one like the respected German football magazine Kicker that rates individual performances in every game from 1 (best) to 6 (worst), then Zidane was the second best French player in the tournament after Thuram (1,92) with his average rating of 2,00. In no game was he rated lower than 2,5 which is still a fine performance.

If Kicker doesn't rate Vieira as the best french performer of that WC, then they're wrong.
Nobody said ZZ wasn't good in WC 06. He was. But Vieira was better.

 

[Evilo]

Oh wait, you're talking about WC 98.

LOL. Reputation stuff only.
Djorkaeff, Thuram, Blanc, Desailly, Lizarazu, Barthez were better throughout the tournament. ZZ was the best offensive player in the final over Djorkaeff.

 

[Albatros]

That's regarding 1998, in 2006 Zidane's Kicker rating was 2,75 which was again second after exactly Vieira (2,71).

None of the players you mentioned (except Thuram obviously) was rated anywhere near Zidane in 1998. Petit would have been the closest with 2,25.

 

[Evilo]

Which is ridiculous.
ZZ had a great first game, a good second before getting red carded.
Suspended two games.
Invisible in the QF and SF.

So maybe his rating is skewed by the fact he missed two games.
Doesn't change the fact the whole D was much better individually and collectively.