overpass
Registered User
- Jun 7, 2007
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Penalty killing performance is very difficult to judge by stats, especially before ice time was tracked. However, I'm going to give it a try here. I'm looking at defencemen who played since 1968 when ice time was tracked, who played on teams that were very good on the penalty kill, and who played a very high percentage of their team's penalty kill.
These numbers aren't precise enough to determine who was the best, but may be able to provide something to discuss. I've also listed the other most frequent penalty killers for the team, as well as the goaltenders who saw significant playing time, to provide some context for the team numbers.
Statistical notes: All penalty kill percentages are net PK%, where I've given credit for scoring shorthanded goals. The "% of PK played" number is calculated by dividing the player's PGA by the team PGA, and then multiplying by (team games)/(player games) to put it on a per-game scale and adjust for games missed.
Bobby Orr
Prime: 1967-68 to 1974-75
% of PK played: 65%
Top 5 teams on PK:
BOS
|
87.1%
PHI |86.6%
CHI |86.2%
MON |85.9%
NYR |85.8%
PK teammates: Ed Westfall, Dallas Smith
Goalies: Gerry Cheevers, Eddie Johnston
Coaches: Sinden, Johnson, Guidolin, Cherry
Scoring shorthanded goals was a big part of Boston's PK success, and Orr was responsible for many of those goals. He logged big minutes on an excellent PK. He did have a good group of forwards, with players like Westfall, Sanderson, and Esposito. His goalies were fairly ordinary. While his statistical record here is very good, it doesn't clearly set him apart. But from the games I've seen, I think he was the best of the group.
Serge Savard
Prime: 1972-73 to 1978-79
% of PK played: 69%
Top 5 teams on PK:
PHI |86.6%
MON | 86.4%
BUF |86.4%
BOS |85.2%
NYI |84.4%
PK teammates: Guy Lapointe, Larry Robinson
Goalies: Ken Dryden, Michel Larocque
Coaches: Scotty Bowman
Savard has a strong resume, playing a huge percentage of the minutes on an excellent penalty kill. On the other hand, he had great teammates on the Montreal PK, with Lapointe, Robinson, Dryden, Gainey, Jarvis, etc. Montreal didn't take many penalties either, making it easier for him to take a high percentage of the PK minutes.
Denis Potvin
Prime: 1977-78 to 1984-85
% of PK played: 58%
Top 5 teams on PK:
BUF |85.1%
NYI | 84.7%
EDM |83.9%
BOS |83.5%
MON |83.3%
PK teammates: Bob Bourne, Stefan Persson
Goalies: Billy Smith, Chico Resch, Rollie Melanson
Coaches: Al Arbour
The Islanders turned over their penalty killers a fair bit during this period. Potvin was the one constant on a very good penalty kill.
Larry Robinson
Prime: 1977-78 to 1985-86
% of PK played: 61%
Top 5 teams on PK:
BUF |84.9%
EDM |84.5%
NYI |84.2%
PHI |83.7%
MON | 83.1%
PK teammates: Bob Gainey, Doug Jarvis
Goalies: Richard Sevigny, Michel Larocque, Rick Wamsley, Ken Dryden
Coaches: Bowman, Geoffrion, Ruel, Berry, Lemaire, Perron
Robinson's numbers are good, but not as good as you might expect, considering his reputation and the forwards on the team. Coaching and goaltending may have been issues.
Ray Bourque
Prime: 1981-82 to 1994-95
% of PK played: 57%
Top 5 teams on PK:
BOS
|
85.1%
EDM |84.7%
WAS |84.6%
BUF |84.2%
PHI |83.8%
PK teammates: Steve Kasper, Rick Middleton
Goalies: Andy Moog, Reggie Lemelin, Pete Peeters, Doug Keans
Coaches: Cheevers, Sinden, Goring, O'Reilly, Milbury, Bowness, B. Sutter
Bourque, as always, is notable for the length of his prime. It's just too hard to pick a shorter length of time. Equally impressive is the fact that Boston had the best penalty kill over this 14 year stretch. Without HOF teammates and with a lot of turnover, Bourque consistently led Boston to an excellent penalty kill.
Rod Langway
Prime: 1982-83 to 1988-89
% of PK played: 59%
Top 5 teams on PK:
EDM |86.8%
PHI |85.5%
BOS |84.2%
WAS | 83.5%
MON |83.3%
PK teammates: Bobby Gould, Scott Stevens
Goalies: Al Jensen, Pat Riggins, Pete Peeters
Coaches: Bryan Murray
When Langway came to Washington, the most noticeable impact was on the penalty kill. Their power play goals against were cut in half in two years.
Chris Chelios
Prime: 1990-91 to 1996-97
% of PK played: 58%
Top 5 teams on PK:
CHI
|
87.1%
DET |87.0%
BUF |86.7%
WAS |86.7%
BOS |86.2%
PK teammates: Dirk Graham, Steve Smith
Goalies: Ed Belfour
Coaches: Keenan, D. Sutter, Hartsburg
Chelios's prime is cut a little short here to focus on his Chicago years and simplify things. He actually won a Norris before Chicago and was part of an excellent Detroit penalty kill later in his career. But this stretch of his career is pretty impressive, as Chicago was the best penalty killing team in the league without a lot of all-star talent.
Scott Stevens
Prime: 1995-96 to 2002-03
% of PK played: 73%
Top 5 teams on PK:
DET |89.7%
NJD | 88.3%
PHI| 87.9%
BUF| 87.8%
STL |87.8%
PK teammates: Ken Daneyko, Scott Niedermayer
Goalies: Martin Brodeur
Coaches: Lemaire, Ftorek, Robinson, Constantine, Burns
Stevens played a very high percentage of New Jersey's penalty kill, the most that any player has played since 1968, in my estimation. But the Devils made that easier by not taking so many penalties. Like Chelios, Stevens shares the credit for his team success on the PK with an excellent goaltender.
Chris Pronger
Prime: 1997-98 to 2003-04
% of PK played: 61%
Top 5 teams on PK:
DET |89.5%
DAL |88.5%
STL | 88.2%
NJD |88.2%
BUF |87.9%
PK teammates: Al MacInnis, Craig Conroy
Goalies: Brent Johnson, Roman Turek, Grant Fuhr
Coaches: Quenneville, Kitchen
Pronger had a very good defence partner on the PK, but the forwards and goalies were nothing special. Lots of credit to Pronger and MacInnis for the excellent PK in St. Louis.
Nicklas Lidstrom
Prime: 1997-98 to 2007-08
% of PK played: 61%
Top 5 teams on PK:
DET
|
88.6%
MIN |87.9%
DAL |87.8%
OTT |87.8%
BUF |87.4%
PK teammates: Chris Chelios, Kris Draper
Goalies: Chris Osgood, Dominik Hasek, Manny Legace
Coaches: Bowman, Lewis, Babcock
Lidstrom has been a mainstay on the best penalty kill in the league for a long time. It's impressive that most of it has come with ordinary goaltenders. He did have Chelios alongside him for much of that, if a post-prime version.
Discussion
These stats are certainly not enough on their own to determine who the best penalty killing defenders were. However, I think they help to at least see who the best were. It's also interesting to see how much the stats line up with perception. In general, the best defensive defencemen play on top penalty kills and log big minutes.
Several teams had top penalty kills and didn't have a defenceman included here. The Edmonton Oilers of the 1980s were one. Their main strength was in scoring shorthanded goals, and I think Wayne Gretzky deserves most of the credit there. The Philadelphia Flyers of the 1970s were another elite penalty kill without a representative here. But they didn't have a clear #1 defenceman, and they had all-time great penalty killers at other positions in Bobby Clarke and Bernie Parent. The Buffalo Sabres have had an excellent penalty kill at different points, but I would give much of the credit there to Craig Ramsay and Don Luce at forward, and more recently Dominik Hasek in goal.
Thoughts? Do these stats add anything? Who do you think are the best defenders on the penalty kill? Anyone pre-expansion?
These numbers aren't precise enough to determine who was the best, but may be able to provide something to discuss. I've also listed the other most frequent penalty killers for the team, as well as the goaltenders who saw significant playing time, to provide some context for the team numbers.
Statistical notes: All penalty kill percentages are net PK%, where I've given credit for scoring shorthanded goals. The "% of PK played" number is calculated by dividing the player's PGA by the team PGA, and then multiplying by (team games)/(player games) to put it on a per-game scale and adjust for games missed.
Bobby Orr
Prime: 1967-68 to 1974-75
% of PK played: 65%
Top 5 teams on PK:
PHI |86.6%
CHI |86.2%
MON |85.9%
NYR |85.8%
PK teammates: Ed Westfall, Dallas Smith
Goalies: Gerry Cheevers, Eddie Johnston
Coaches: Sinden, Johnson, Guidolin, Cherry
Scoring shorthanded goals was a big part of Boston's PK success, and Orr was responsible for many of those goals. He logged big minutes on an excellent PK. He did have a good group of forwards, with players like Westfall, Sanderson, and Esposito. His goalies were fairly ordinary. While his statistical record here is very good, it doesn't clearly set him apart. But from the games I've seen, I think he was the best of the group.
Serge Savard
Prime: 1972-73 to 1978-79
% of PK played: 69%
Top 5 teams on PK:
MON | 86.4%
BUF |86.4%
BOS |85.2%
NYI |84.4%
PK teammates: Guy Lapointe, Larry Robinson
Goalies: Ken Dryden, Michel Larocque
Coaches: Scotty Bowman
Savard has a strong resume, playing a huge percentage of the minutes on an excellent penalty kill. On the other hand, he had great teammates on the Montreal PK, with Lapointe, Robinson, Dryden, Gainey, Jarvis, etc. Montreal didn't take many penalties either, making it easier for him to take a high percentage of the PK minutes.
Denis Potvin
Prime: 1977-78 to 1984-85
% of PK played: 58%
Top 5 teams on PK:
NYI | 84.7%
EDM |83.9%
BOS |83.5%
MON |83.3%
PK teammates: Bob Bourne, Stefan Persson
Goalies: Billy Smith, Chico Resch, Rollie Melanson
Coaches: Al Arbour
The Islanders turned over their penalty killers a fair bit during this period. Potvin was the one constant on a very good penalty kill.
Larry Robinson
Prime: 1977-78 to 1985-86
% of PK played: 61%
Top 5 teams on PK:
EDM |84.5%
NYI |84.2%
PHI |83.7%
MON | 83.1%
PK teammates: Bob Gainey, Doug Jarvis
Goalies: Richard Sevigny, Michel Larocque, Rick Wamsley, Ken Dryden
Coaches: Bowman, Geoffrion, Ruel, Berry, Lemaire, Perron
Robinson's numbers are good, but not as good as you might expect, considering his reputation and the forwards on the team. Coaching and goaltending may have been issues.
Ray Bourque
Prime: 1981-82 to 1994-95
% of PK played: 57%
Top 5 teams on PK:
EDM |84.7%
WAS |84.6%
BUF |84.2%
PHI |83.8%
PK teammates: Steve Kasper, Rick Middleton
Goalies: Andy Moog, Reggie Lemelin, Pete Peeters, Doug Keans
Coaches: Cheevers, Sinden, Goring, O'Reilly, Milbury, Bowness, B. Sutter
Bourque, as always, is notable for the length of his prime. It's just too hard to pick a shorter length of time. Equally impressive is the fact that Boston had the best penalty kill over this 14 year stretch. Without HOF teammates and with a lot of turnover, Bourque consistently led Boston to an excellent penalty kill.
Rod Langway
Prime: 1982-83 to 1988-89
% of PK played: 59%
Top 5 teams on PK:
PHI |85.5%
BOS |84.2%
WAS | 83.5%
MON |83.3%
PK teammates: Bobby Gould, Scott Stevens
Goalies: Al Jensen, Pat Riggins, Pete Peeters
Coaches: Bryan Murray
When Langway came to Washington, the most noticeable impact was on the penalty kill. Their power play goals against were cut in half in two years.
Chris Chelios
Prime: 1990-91 to 1996-97
% of PK played: 58%
Top 5 teams on PK:
DET |87.0%
BUF |86.7%
WAS |86.7%
BOS |86.2%
PK teammates: Dirk Graham, Steve Smith
Goalies: Ed Belfour
Coaches: Keenan, D. Sutter, Hartsburg
Chelios's prime is cut a little short here to focus on his Chicago years and simplify things. He actually won a Norris before Chicago and was part of an excellent Detroit penalty kill later in his career. But this stretch of his career is pretty impressive, as Chicago was the best penalty killing team in the league without a lot of all-star talent.
Scott Stevens
Prime: 1995-96 to 2002-03
% of PK played: 73%
Top 5 teams on PK:
NJD | 88.3%
PHI| 87.9%
BUF| 87.8%
STL |87.8%
PK teammates: Ken Daneyko, Scott Niedermayer
Goalies: Martin Brodeur
Coaches: Lemaire, Ftorek, Robinson, Constantine, Burns
Stevens played a very high percentage of New Jersey's penalty kill, the most that any player has played since 1968, in my estimation. But the Devils made that easier by not taking so many penalties. Like Chelios, Stevens shares the credit for his team success on the PK with an excellent goaltender.
Chris Pronger
Prime: 1997-98 to 2003-04
% of PK played: 61%
Top 5 teams on PK:
DAL |88.5%
STL | 88.2%
NJD |88.2%
BUF |87.9%
PK teammates: Al MacInnis, Craig Conroy
Goalies: Brent Johnson, Roman Turek, Grant Fuhr
Coaches: Quenneville, Kitchen
Pronger had a very good defence partner on the PK, but the forwards and goalies were nothing special. Lots of credit to Pronger and MacInnis for the excellent PK in St. Louis.
Nicklas Lidstrom
Prime: 1997-98 to 2007-08
% of PK played: 61%
Top 5 teams on PK:
MIN |87.9%
DAL |87.8%
OTT |87.8%
BUF |87.4%
PK teammates: Chris Chelios, Kris Draper
Goalies: Chris Osgood, Dominik Hasek, Manny Legace
Coaches: Bowman, Lewis, Babcock
Lidstrom has been a mainstay on the best penalty kill in the league for a long time. It's impressive that most of it has come with ordinary goaltenders. He did have Chelios alongside him for much of that, if a post-prime version.
Discussion
These stats are certainly not enough on their own to determine who the best penalty killing defenders were. However, I think they help to at least see who the best were. It's also interesting to see how much the stats line up with perception. In general, the best defensive defencemen play on top penalty kills and log big minutes.
Several teams had top penalty kills and didn't have a defenceman included here. The Edmonton Oilers of the 1980s were one. Their main strength was in scoring shorthanded goals, and I think Wayne Gretzky deserves most of the credit there. The Philadelphia Flyers of the 1970s were another elite penalty kill without a representative here. But they didn't have a clear #1 defenceman, and they had all-time great penalty killers at other positions in Bobby Clarke and Bernie Parent. The Buffalo Sabres have had an excellent penalty kill at different points, but I would give much of the credit there to Craig Ramsay and Don Luce at forward, and more recently Dominik Hasek in goal.
Thoughts? Do these stats add anything? Who do you think are the best defenders on the penalty kill? Anyone pre-expansion?