Best D-men on the PK, by the numbers

[overpass]

Penalty killing performance is very difficult to judge by stats, especially before ice time was tracked. However, I'm going to give it a try here. I'm looking at defencemen who played since 1968 when ice time was tracked, who played on teams that were very good on the penalty kill, and who played a very high percentage of their team's penalty kill.

These numbers aren't precise enough to determine who was the best, but may be able to provide something to discuss. I've also listed the other most frequent penalty killers for the team, as well as the goaltenders who saw significant playing time, to provide some context for the team numbers.

Statistical notes: All penalty kill percentages are net PK%, where I've given credit for scoring shorthanded goals. The "% of PK played" number is calculated by dividing the player's PGA by the team PGA, and then multiplying by (team games)/(player games) to put it on a per-game scale and adjust for games missed.

Bobby Orr

Prime: 1967-68 to 1974-75
% of PK played: 65%

Top 5 teams on PK:

BOS | 87.1%
PHI |86.6%
CHI |86.2%
MON |85.9%
NYR |85.8%

PK teammates: Ed Westfall, Dallas Smith
Goalies: Gerry Cheevers, Eddie Johnston
Coaches: Sinden, Johnson, Guidolin, Cherry

Scoring shorthanded goals was a big part of Boston's PK success, and Orr was responsible for many of those goals. He logged big minutes on an excellent PK. He did have a good group of forwards, with players like Westfall, Sanderson, and Esposito. His goalies were fairly ordinary. While his statistical record here is very good, it doesn't clearly set him apart. But from the games I've seen, I think he was the best of the group.

Serge Savard

Prime: 1972-73 to 1978-79
% of PK played: 69%

Top 5 teams on PK:

PHI |86.6%
MON | 86.4%
BUF |86.4%
BOS |85.2%
NYI |84.4%

PK teammates: Guy Lapointe, Larry Robinson
Goalies: Ken Dryden, Michel Larocque
Coaches: Scotty Bowman

Savard has a strong resume, playing a huge percentage of the minutes on an excellent penalty kill. On the other hand, he had great teammates on the Montreal PK, with Lapointe, Robinson, Dryden, Gainey, Jarvis, etc. Montreal didn't take many penalties either, making it easier for him to take a high percentage of the PK minutes.

Denis Potvin

Prime: 1977-78 to 1984-85
% of PK played: 58%

Top 5 teams on PK:

BUF |85.1%
NYI | 84.7%
EDM |83.9%
BOS |83.5%
MON |83.3%

PK teammates: Bob Bourne, Stefan Persson
Goalies: Billy Smith, Chico Resch, Rollie Melanson
Coaches: Al Arbour

The Islanders turned over their penalty killers a fair bit during this period. Potvin was the one constant on a very good penalty kill.

Larry Robinson

Prime: 1977-78 to 1985-86
% of PK played: 61%

Top 5 teams on PK:

BUF |84.9%
EDM |84.5%
NYI |84.2%
PHI |83.7%
MON | 83.1%

PK teammates: Bob Gainey, Doug Jarvis
Goalies: Richard Sevigny, Michel Larocque, Rick Wamsley, Ken Dryden
Coaches: Bowman, Geoffrion, Ruel, Berry, Lemaire, Perron

Robinson's numbers are good, but not as good as you might expect, considering his reputation and the forwards on the team. Coaching and goaltending may have been issues.

Ray Bourque

Prime: 1981-82 to 1994-95
% of PK played: 57%

Top 5 teams on PK:

BOS | 85.1%
EDM |84.7%
WAS |84.6%
BUF |84.2%
PHI |83.8%

PK teammates: Steve Kasper, Rick Middleton
Goalies: Andy Moog, Reggie Lemelin, Pete Peeters, Doug Keans
Coaches: Cheevers, Sinden, Goring, O'Reilly, Milbury, Bowness, B. Sutter

Bourque, as always, is notable for the length of his prime. It's just too hard to pick a shorter length of time. Equally impressive is the fact that Boston had the best penalty kill over this 14 year stretch. Without HOF teammates and with a lot of turnover, Bourque consistently led Boston to an excellent penalty kill.

Rod Langway

Prime: 1982-83 to 1988-89
% of PK played: 59%

Top 5 teams on PK:

EDM |86.8%
PHI |85.5%
BOS |84.2%
WAS | 83.5%
MON |83.3%

PK teammates: Bobby Gould, Scott Stevens
Goalies: Al Jensen, Pat Riggins, Pete Peeters
Coaches: Bryan Murray

When Langway came to Washington, the most noticeable impact was on the penalty kill. Their power play goals against were cut in half in two years.

Chris Chelios

Prime: 1990-91 to 1996-97
% of PK played: 58%

Top 5 teams on PK:

CHI | 87.1%
DET |87.0%
BUF |86.7%
WAS |86.7%
BOS |86.2%

PK teammates: Dirk Graham, Steve Smith
Goalies: Ed Belfour
Coaches: Keenan, D. Sutter, Hartsburg

Chelios's prime is cut a little short here to focus on his Chicago years and simplify things. He actually won a Norris before Chicago and was part of an excellent Detroit penalty kill later in his career. But this stretch of his career is pretty impressive, as Chicago was the best penalty killing team in the league without a lot of all-star talent.

Scott Stevens

Prime: 1995-96 to 2002-03
% of PK played: 73%

Top 5 teams on PK:

DET |89.7%
NJD | 88.3%
PHI| 87.9%
BUF| 87.8%
STL |87.8%

PK teammates: Ken Daneyko, Scott Niedermayer
Goalies: Martin Brodeur
Coaches: Lemaire, Ftorek, Robinson, Constantine, Burns

Stevens played a very high percentage of New Jersey's penalty kill, the most that any player has played since 1968, in my estimation. But the Devils made that easier by not taking so many penalties. Like Chelios, Stevens shares the credit for his team success on the PK with an excellent goaltender.

Chris Pronger

Prime: 1997-98 to 2003-04
% of PK played: 61%

Top 5 teams on PK:

DET |89.5%
DAL |88.5%
STL | 88.2%
NJD |88.2%
BUF |87.9%

PK teammates: Al MacInnis, Craig Conroy
Goalies: Brent Johnson, Roman Turek, Grant Fuhr
Coaches: Quenneville, Kitchen

Pronger had a very good defence partner on the PK, but the forwards and goalies were nothing special. Lots of credit to Pronger and MacInnis for the excellent PK in St. Louis.

Nicklas Lidstrom

Prime: 1997-98 to 2007-08
% of PK played: 61%

Top 5 teams on PK:

DET | 88.6%
MIN |87.9%
DAL |87.8%
OTT |87.8%
BUF |87.4%

PK teammates: Chris Chelios, Kris Draper
Goalies: Chris Osgood, Dominik Hasek, Manny Legace
Coaches: Bowman, Lewis, Babcock

Lidstrom has been a mainstay on the best penalty kill in the league for a long time. It's impressive that most of it has come with ordinary goaltenders. He did have Chelios alongside him for much of that, if a post-prime version.

Discussion

These stats are certainly not enough on their own to determine who the best penalty killing defenders were. However, I think they help to at least see who the best were. It's also interesting to see how much the stats line up with perception. In general, the best defensive defencemen play on top penalty kills and log big minutes.

Several teams had top penalty kills and didn't have a defenceman included here. The Edmonton Oilers of the 1980s were one. Their main strength was in scoring shorthanded goals, and I think Wayne Gretzky deserves most of the credit there. The Philadelphia Flyers of the 1970s were another elite penalty kill without a representative here. But they didn't have a clear #1 defenceman, and they had all-time great penalty killers at other positions in Bobby Clarke and Bernie Parent. The Buffalo Sabres have had an excellent penalty kill at different points, but I would give much of the credit there to Craig Ramsay and Don Luce at forward, and more recently Dominik Hasek in goal.

Thoughts? Do these stats add anything? Who do you think are the best defenders on the penalty kill? Anyone pre-expansion?

Click to read more...

 

[reckoning]

I did some less detailed research a few years ago and found that Terry Harper (with Montreal and L.A.) was on the PK of the top PK team of the league more times than any other defenceman. How would his numbers with this compare to the others?

 

[Dark Shadows]

Very nice!

 

[seventieslord]

Nice work. And thank you for the quick Craig Ramsay shoutout.

 

[overpass]

I did some less detailed research a few years ago and found that Terry Harper (with Montreal and L.A.) was on the PK of the top PK team of the league more times than any other defenceman. How would his numbers with this compare to the others?

A quick check of his PGA shows that he wasn't even on the penalty kill in 1967-68 or 1968-69. But here are his team numbers for Montreal.

From 1963-64 to 1971-72 (although I'm not sure if Harper killed penalties regularly before 1967-68).

CHI |87.8%
MON | 86.2%
BOS |85.2%
TOR |85.1%

And from 1969-70 to 1971-72, when we know Harper was on the PK:

CHI |87.8%
NYR |87.7%
BOS |87.0%
MON | 86.9%
STL |84.6%

Harper's % of PK played was 57% over this time. But Jacques Laperriere was the main man on the back end for the Habs at this time, with 77% of the PK played. In fact, Laperriere would probably fit better than Harper in this group. Montreal only had the fifth best penalty kill from 1968-1974, but Laperriere played big minutes, with 73% of the PK played.

Harper did have good numbers in LA. He was by far their most frequent penalty killer in his three years there, playing 61% of the time, and they had the 4th best PK over those three years.

PHI| 88.3%
BOS |87.2%
BUF |86.8%
LA | 86.4%
MON |85.2%

Harper looks like a good penalty killer, but I wouldn't put him in the group with the other players listed by reputation or by the numbers.

One other player that I thought about including was Derian Hatcher. The Stars had an excellent penalty kill during his prime, behind only Detroit. I ended up not doing so because both Hatcher and Matvichuk played roughly equal minutes, and they had excellent support with Modano, Lehtinen, Carbonneau, and Belfour. Also, there were several players listed from that time period already.

 

[KingJoyal]

A quick check of his PGA shows that he wasn't even on the penalty kill in 1967-68 or 1968-69. But here are his team numbers for Montreal.

From 1963-64 to 1971-72 (although I'm not sure if Harper killed penalties regularly before 1967-68).

CHI |87.8% MON | 86.2%
BOS |85.2%
TOR |85.1%

And from 1969-70 to 1971-72, when we know Harper was on the PK:

CHI |87.8%
NYR |87.7%
BOS |87.0%
MON | 86.9%
STL |84.6%

Harper's % of PK played was 57% over this time. But Jacques Laperriere was the main man on the back end for the Habs at this time, with 77% of the PK played. In fact, Laperriere would probably fit better than Harper in this group. Montreal only had the fifth best penalty kill from 1968-1974, but Laperriere played big minutes, with 73% of the PK played.

Harper did have good numbers in LA. He was by far their most frequent penalty killer in his three years there, playing 61% of the time, and they had the 4th best PK over those three years.

PHI| 88.3%
BOS |87.2%
BUF |86.8%
LA | 86.4%
MON |85.2%

Harper looks like a good penalty killer, but I wouldn't put him in the group with the other players listed by reputation or by the numbers.

Looks like Chicago had terrific penalty killing. Would that mainly be the handiwork of Pat Stapleton?

If you want an example of how good Terry Harper was, and why the rich got richer and the poor got poorer, just look at Harper's trade to the Kings. Los Angeles gave up a second round draft choice in 1974, a first and a third round choice in 1975, and a first round choice in 1976, for Terry.

 

[overpass]

Looks like Chicago had terrific penalty killing. Would that mainly be the handiwork of Pat Stapleton?

Chicago did have a very good penalty kill, but it's not clear that one defenceman in particular was responsible. It looks like Doug Jarrett, Pierre Pilote, Pat Stapleton, Bill White, and Keith Magnuson all spent time on the first unit at different times, as it changed from year to year. Eric Nesterenko was the main forward, along with Stan Mikita, Lou Angotti, and others. Tony Esposito certainly should get some credit.

Here's one more defenceman who played a ton on a great penalty kill. I mentioned that I thought Buffalo's success was mostly due to forwards or goalies, but here's their defenceman who may have the best case for being a great PKer.

Bill Hajt

Prime: 1979-80 to 1985-86
% of PK played: 69%

Top 5 teams on PK:

BUF | 84.9%
EDM |84.5%
NYI |84.2%
PHI |83.4%
BOS |83.2%

PK teammates: Craig Ramsay, Mike Ramsey
Goalies: Sauve, Barrasso, Edwards
Coaches: Bowman, Neilson, Roberts, Schoenfeld

Hajt played a ton of minutes on a great Buffalo penalty kill. Scotty Bowman was coaching him for most of this time...but Bowman's Montreal teams weren't this good on the PK. Craig Ramsay was a great PK forward, and Mike Ramsey was pretty good too in the second half of this time period, but Hajt's hardly the only player here to have good teammates, and Ramsay and Ramsey aren't HHOFers or anything.

I really don't know who would have the best case for Philadelphia. Their PK was awesome through the 1970s and 1980s, but they may have had the best group of PK forwards over that time with Bobby Clarke and Bill Barber, and later Brian Propp and Dave Poulin. Mark Howe also spent time up front on the PK.

 

[Dark Shadows]

Is there any to refine "% of PK played", or to change its title?

The method being used seems more along the lines of % of PK goals on ice for, rather than % of PK played.

I am not sure if I am wording it right, but for a modern example. Nick Lidstrom. I am very sure he played more than 61% of his teams PK. He is a guy that stayed out for the majority of each PK.

Its more likely that he was out for 75%+ of his teams PK during that time, and that the number of PK goals scored while he was not on the ice(Say, when he was in the box, or just finished a long shift) ballooned a certain percentage since they no longer had their best Pkers on the ice.

Sorry if I am not wording this right.

 

[poise]

Several teams had top penalty kills and didn't have a defenceman included here. The Edmonton Oilers of the 1980s were one. Their main strength was in scoring shorthanded goals, and I think Wayne Gretzky deserves most of the credit there.

Our of curiosity, what are Edmonton's numbers?

Anyway while Gretzky deserves a ton of credit for all aspects of the Oilers' game, including penalty killing, you are selling short a lot of players there. Gregg, Lowe, and Fogolin were huge parts on the defensive side. Coffey too, and he took the prominent role later on both ways. Messier got a ton of time shorthanded. Kurri showed why he was a natural center on the penalty kill, especially when 2 men down he was often a center.

 

[overpass]

Our of curiosity, what are Edmonton's numbers?

Anyway while Gretzky deserves a ton of credit for all aspects of the Oilers' game, including penalty killing, you are selling short a lot of players there. Gregg, Lowe, and Fogolin were huge parts on the defensive side. Coffey too, and he took the prominent role later on both ways. Messier got a ton of time shorthanded. Kurri showed why he was a natural center on the penalty kill, especially when 2 men down he was often a center.

1981-82 to 1987-88

EDM | 86.2%
PHI |84.3%
BOS |84.2%
WAS |83.4%
NYI |83.3%

The reason I said that Gretzky gets a lot of credit is that the Oilers' record at scoring shorthanded goals is the main reason they finished atop the list above. Gretzky was their biggest weapon in this area, along with Kurri and Messier. When looking purely at goal prevention on the penalty kill, they are lower on the list.

WAS |81.0%
BOS |80.9%
NYI |80.3%
MON |80.2%
EDM | 80.0%

That's also a fine record, but it's not as impressive.

But the main reason I didn't include an Oiler is that no Oiler defenceman logged major minutes, like 50% or more of the penalty kill. Kevin Lowe was first with 44%, and Lee Fogolin, Charlie Huddy, Paul Coffey, and Randy Gregg all spent significant time there too. I was looking to identify top defencemen more than team efforts.

I certainly sold a few players short in the process, but my analysis had to focus on something, and I chose to focus on the top defensive defencemen, or those who had the largest individual roles and contributions on the penalty kill. I didn't see one of those on the Oilers.

Is there any to refine "% of PK played", or to change its title?

The method being used seems more along the lines of % of PK goals on ice for, rather than % of PK played.

I am not sure if I am wording it right, but for a modern example. Nick Lidstrom. I am very sure he played more than 61% of his teams PK. He is a guy that stayed out for the majority of each PK.

Its more likely that he was out for 75%+ of his teams PK during that time, and that the number of PK goals scored while he was not on the ice(Say, when he was in the box, or just finished a long shift) ballooned a certain percentage since they no longer had their best Pkers on the ice.

Sorry if I am not wording this right.

No, I understand what you're getting at.

Maybe I should have called it "estimated % of PK played" or something like that, although I was trying to keep it short if possible.

But I don't think it will be that far off as a percentage. While we expect the Lidstroms to be better defensively than the second unit defenders, they are also facing the first unit power plays and playing on 5-on-3's, so they may allow goals at a similar rate.