Bergevin Discussion Part VI [Mod Warning Posts #450, #906]

[Smokey Thompson]

Subban and Price have agreed to play for the Habs and in return receive ample compensation for their services.They are treated like royalty and are reverered (for the most part) by countless fans. And the team is squandering their best years how?

With a coach who antiquated system puts up worse possession numbers than most lottery teams.

 

[417]

Uh... yeah. Duh. But they could have spent it on PK AND another player (or at least a portion of his salary) instead of just PK, in this alternate world where he is in the middle of a 5x5 contract instead of early days of an 8x8. That's kind of obviously how that works.

Yes they could of spent it on PK AND another player...and that player could of been a total bust like Parenteau or Briere... and we're back at square one.

I don't know how you can say definitively either way...it's all speculation

 

[417]

Earlier you said the cap doesn't matter to the hawks... now you say it's important ?
I guess I don't understand what you're trying to say then..

Cool story...but I never said that

 

[JohnLennon]

If the cap hit for Kessel is too much, get them to eat salary or give them a salary dump. It's not hard to do.

What? Of course that is hard to do. That is literally the main challenge of the trade. That's the problem here: everyone thinks trades are so easy to make. Didn't you notice anything interesting? The Penguins didn't send any players with a notable cap hit back the other way, as Toronto wasn't willing to take back salary. The only thing they were willing to do was retain a little bit of Kessel's salary (1.25M) and that still wouldn't have been NEARLY enough for the Habs to work around.

It's just not as easy as you claim it to be. There are two teams involved in a trade, and there's no way the Habs could've fit Kessel under our cap while also re-signing Galchenyuk.

 

[NotProkofievian]

What? Of course that is hard to do. That is literally the main challenge of the trade. That's the problem here: everyone thinks trades are so easy to make. Didn't you notice anything interesting? The Penguins didn't send any players with a notable cap hit back the other way, as Toronto wasn't willing to take back salary. The only thing they were willing to do was retain a little bit of Kessel's salary (1.25M) and that still wouldn't have been NEARLY enough for the Habs to work around.

It's just not as easy as you claim it to be. There are two teams involved in a trade, and there's no way the Habs could've fit Kessel under our cap while also re-signing Galchenyuk.

Actually, they retained 15% of Kessel's salary which is quite a bit. We'd need to get rid of a single player in order to fit him, Galchenyuk and Tinner under the cap. There is a cap buffer in the off season which allows GMs time to get their team cap compliant (for example Boston and Chicago last year). And do you have a source for Toronto being unwilling to take back any salary, or is this your own speculation that you've substituted as support for your argument?

And further, most people here and in the montreal media are far more willing to excuse, and even applaud Bergevin's inaction than are willing to criticize him for yet again failing to improve our top 6. I would argue this is a bigger problem than people expecting results on a message board.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Yes they could of spent it on PK AND another player...and that player could of been a total bust like Parenteau or Briere... and we're back at square one.

I don't know how you can say definitively either way...it's all speculation

Maybe, but at least it's 3 more years of 3 more million dollars worth of options. That part ISN'T speculation, that's just how it works. On top of that, it's not like his raise after the 5 years could have taken him much higher than the salary that he has for the rest of his new contract... he's already hitting 10/11 million as it is.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

With a coach who antiquated system puts up worse possession numbers than most lottery teams.

Thanks for filling in. Exactly what I meant. Look at it this way. Compare the personnel against other teams. The goalie certainly stacks up to other goalies. The defensemen, as a whole and as individuals, stack up against other teams. Obviously the forward corps needs work, but with the impending influx of young players is still a work in progress. The general manager, with the exception of who he hires to coach, seems to be upper-echelon. But when you compare coaching staff to other teams, in terms of strategy and player deployment, they strike me as the weak link here, at best mediocre and probably worst than mediocre, with the exception of the goalie coach. And yet, I've often said that paying for the best coach possible, in any team sport, is money well spent. MT and his AHL counterpart are holding this team back.

 

[417]

Maybe, but at least it's 3 more years of 3 more million dollars worth of options. That part ISN'T speculation, that's just how it works. On top of that, it's not like his raise after the 5 years could have taken him much higher than the salary that he has for the rest of his new contract... he's already hitting 10/11 million as it is.

Maybe you're right...but there are ways to create cap space if required.

If this unknown player with was available for the Habs, I don't see why MB couldn't make a move simply because Subban is making 9M per year on the cap as opposed to 5M or 6M.

if there was a player out there that Bergevin identified that could help the Habs right now and was available, and the Habs didn't have the cap space to get him, he would find a way to make it happen.

That's what every single team does and like MB or not, one of the things he's proven very capable of doing, is finding ways to unload salary.

Cole, Bourque, Parenteau, Moen, Prust...etc...

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

I don't see why MB couldn't make a move simply because Subban is making 9M per year on the cap as opposed to 5M or 6M.

Then I can't help you. Salary cap. 50 contract maximum. Can't trade draft picks to get a player if his salary doesn't fit in the team's cap. Etc.

It's not about the ability to make moves in general, it's about the ability to make moves that make the team better.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

What? Of course that is hard to do. That is literally the main challenge of the trade. That's the problem here: everyone thinks trades are so easy to make. Didn't you notice anything interesting? The Penguins didn't send any players with a notable cap hit back the other way, as Toronto wasn't willing to take back salary. The only thing they were willing to do was retain a little bit of Kessel's salary (1.25M) and that still wouldn't have been NEARLY enough for the Habs to work around.

It's just not as easy as you claim it to be. There are two teams involved in a trade, and there's no way the Habs could've fit Kessel under our cap while also re-signing Galchenyuk.

And yet... the Leafs ate some of that salary with Pittsburgh giving almost nothing back.

You're talking like his contract would be impossible for us to absorb, it's not. Deal off Emelin there's four million right there. Leafs retain some - there's some more. DD as a salary dump or buy him out... of course its feasible.