Bergevin Discussion - Episode VII - The Force Awakens

[donghabs98]

It's interesting how failed signings can be good for a team.

A few years ago, Bergevin offeres a good contract to Lecavalier, which he turned down, good.

A few years before that, Gainey offered really good contracts, as in 6 or 7 years, to Ryan Smythe and Daniel Briere, they turned down the Habs. Good.

I think there was a great offer made to Brad Richards at some point.

We should thank Vinny for his desire to never play here, thanks to him we avoided a trade that potentially could have set the franchise back and a free agent signing which would have went south.

 

[Nynja*]

Correct. I know we can't have those days, the league is different and much more even.

But for some newbie to say offense is not a problem without having seen what incredible players, and especially a french player like Jaques Lemaire, actually can play like for for the Habs is offensive to me. Jaques Lemaire then was better then, than Datsyuk is now. At that time he was incredible.

This is why I tire of the DD thread. What's the ****ing point?

And yeah, sorry guys, anyone under 45 here is a newbie. Anyone who never saw a game at the Forum is a newbie. Just accept it.

You're exemplifying every stereotype that non-habs fans have about habs fans.

Times have changed buddy, might want to catch up to 2015. You're hinging all your problems on the fact that the habs dont score 6 goals a game and win a cup every year like they did in the 40's, 50's, 60's

 

[Sorinth]

Are you serious??? Did you seriously read that email and that's your answer?

Nevermind that Bowman has been on the job almost 4 years longer than Bergevin has...

The comment about all Bowman had to do was keep the core together?? Isn't that true for Bergevin as well?

Come on... You knock Bergevin for only acquiring Petry, Weise, Kassian and Semin the last 3 years

I then post all the players acquired by Bowman, none of which are all that impressive

And THAT'S your response?,

Just say you don't like MB... We can end this right now

Bowman had a contender to start with. Bergevin didn't, he had one that was close. So yeah if Bowman does nothing but keep the team together he wins 3 stanley cups, if all Bergevin does is keep things together there are no cups.

 

[FormerLurker]

It's his 4th summer. Case closed.

That I can agree with, because it's true. But it's not the same thing as saying "nearly four years on the job". There is still the rest of the summer, training camp, a full season of hockey including trade deadline, and the playoffs before we can say that Bergevin has been on the job for four years. Can you agree with that?

 

[Kriss E]

That I can agree with, because it's true. But it's not the same thing as saying "nearly four years on the job". There is still the rest of the summer, training camp, a full season of hockey including trade deadline, and the playoffs before we can say that Bergevin has been on the job for four years. Can you agree with that?

Sure, I can agree, but really it's semantics.
Someone said close to 4 years as Bergevin is in his 4th summer...Really..Is this even worth arguing against? Who cares really..

 

[Kriss E]

Not quote what I said... But by all means, if that's what you want to do, it just goes against your theory that he hasn't done much since becoming GM

It's not as easy as you seem to think it is to build a Cup contender

At the end of the day he took over in May of 2012

It is now July 2015, that's 3yrs and almost 3 months

And all the Habs have done during that time is be one of the NHL's most winning teams

If I spend too much time on here, I really start believing the Habs are some bottom dwelling team... Then I step into reality and realize that things aren't nearly as bad as many of you claim they are

There's very little perspective here

Dude, you're a bit all over the place.
First you say we can't look at his first year because it was the lockout and he didn't have time to do much. Then you say it was an eval year so there isn't much he could have done, now you're saying he's done much in that first year.

I agree, there's very little perspective here. I mean, it's his 4th summer here and because I am not satisfied with Plek-DD as the top 2 centers and projects as our summer acquisition thus far, then I somehow have this preconcieved opinion of Bergevin according to you..

 

[Zorba]

Dude, you're a bit all over the place.
First you say we can't look at his first year because it was the lockout and he didn't have time to do much. Then you say it was an eval year so there isn't much he could have done, now you're saying he's done much in that first year.

I agree, there's very little perspective here. I mean, it's his 4th summer here and because I am not satisfied with Plek-DD as the top 2 centers and projects as our summer acquisition thus far, then I somehow have this preconcieved opinion of Bergevin according to you..

How is it not his 4 th summer? Isn't it obvious? You can't call backsies on an offseason if you do nothing to improve the team. Did Nill not acquire seguin in his first offseason ? Does that not count? Whether or not he shoulda or coulda done anything in his first off season is a different story. Regardless of any spin it's his 4th

 

[Nynja*]

Did Nill not acquire seguin in his first offseason ?

another player that had a negative chance of coming to montreal

 

[Zorba]

another player that had a negative chance of coming to montreal

That's not the point at all. We're talking about 1st off seasons not whether or not the Habs could get seguin. Why was it possible for Nill to make moves in his first offseason? It's bergevins 4th offseason for better or worse

 

[ECWHSWI]

That I can agree with, because it's true. But it's not the same thing as saying "nearly four years on the job". There is still the rest of the summer, training camp, a full season of hockey including trade deadline, and the playoffs before we can say that Bergevin has been on the job for four years. Can you agree with that?

pretty much this, shows how silly it is to hang on to the "4th sumer" narrative.

4th summer isnt over anyway...

 

[HABNIKO]

Bergy is not perfect but is doing a hell of a job for not trading away our young talent and yet manages to pull rabbits out of his hat! Clever and smart and were lucky to have him.

 

[jaffy27]

That's not the point at all. We're talking about 1st off seasons not whether or not the Habs could get seguin. Why was it possible for Nill to make moves in his first offseason? It's bergevins 4th offseason for better or worse

....and Nill still hasn't made the playoffs!

How do we measure success??...the players a GM acquires or team position in the standings??
Benn, Spezza, Seguin all big time players yet still not in the playoffs
Prust, Weise, Mitchell....all small time players..and we make the playoffs

Coincidence or strategy??
Doesn't make Bergevin perfect but he's very far from incompetent...the proof is in the results!

 

[DAChampion]

Overall, Bergevin has done a good job, there's no argument he's been bad.

 

[Zorba]

....and Nill still hasn't made the playoffs!

How do we measure success??...the players a GM acquires or team position in the standings??
Benn, Spezza, Seguin all big time players yet still not in the playoffs
Prust, Weise, Mitchell....all small time players..and we make the playoffs

Coincidence or strategy??
Doesn't make Bergevin perfect but he's very far from incompetent...the proof is in the results!

You sure Nill never made the playoffs? Wanna re check your stats? And again that wasn't the point. Why did bergevins first year not count? That's the debate. Nothing else. Btw I guess Carey price isn't a big time player who carries us

 

[jaffy27]

You sure Nill never made the playoffs? Wanna re check your stats? And again that wasn't the point. Why did bergevins first year not count? That's the debate. Nothing else. Btw I guess Carey price isn't a big time player who carries us

I'm not saying his first year didn't count, never said that, but you can't measure a Gm's success by who he acquires, it's how the players gel with the team.....Bergevin understands this!!

 

[Zorba]

I'm not saying his first year didn't count, never said that, but you can't measure a Gm's success by who he acquires, it's how the players gel with the team.....Bergevin understands this!!

Again that's not th point. A lot of posters are saying bergevins first off season didn't count. I was just bringing up other GMs first off season. Ok how Jim Benning , acquired Vrbata first off season. No one said that his first off season doesn't count. They all count

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Again that's not th point. A lot of posters are saying bergevins first off season didn't count. I was just bringing up other GMs first off season. Ok how Jim Benning , acquired Vrbata first off season. No one said that his first off season doesn't count. They all count

To say that offseason didn't count is ridiculous.

 

[Kriss E]

I'm not saying his first year didn't count, never said that, but you can't measure a Gm's success by who he acquires, it's how the players gel with the team.....Bergevin understands this!!

Success is only relevant to winning. We're the sharks a success all those years of dominating the regular season and then losing in POs??? I don't think so.
So you can't measure success other than by winning a cup, or at the very least, have SCF appearances.

 

[Rapala]

Overall, Bergevin has done a good job, there's no argument he's been bad.

He's lived up to most of his initial masterplan despite handcuffing himself to MT.
I guess it's Molson's money so that can go away at any time.
I don't like when he says one thing and then acts out something completely different as if we wouldn't notice. The whole how we went from "Pas d'Excuses" one year to "It's a Transition year" the next is a great example. He should have continued in the same vein by admitting we had over-achieved and that we were very much a work in progress. Fans could continue buying into that spiel without the seeds of doubt creeping in. These next two years will determine his legacy IMO. He has had a better summer than I thought he would starting with Petry but a real test is coming. Who will hold down the C positions come playoffs 2016.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Correct. I know we can't have those days, the league is different and much more even.

But for some newbie to say offense is not a problem without having seen what incredible players, and especially a french player and center like Jaques Lemaire, actually can play like for for the Habs is offensive to me. Jaques Lemaire then was better than Datsyuk is now. At that time he was incredible.

I saw him score goals watching from 20 feet away in a corner seat with shots that were so hard they could not be seen. His power was huge. He passed when that was the right play. He shot when that was the right play, and he defended when that was the right play.

This is why I tire of the DD thread. It's a ****ing joke.

And yeah, sorry guys, anyone under 45 here is a newbie. Anyone who never saw a game at the Forum is a newbie. Just accept it. But I love you all.

Awesome!