Bergevin Discussion - Episode VII - The Force Awakens

[PricePkPatch*]

Past thread reached 1000...

So.. Hum, I think he is doing good. He hasnt crippled us with a long-term mistake, and is clearly working hard to increase our talent and weight pool without overpaying.

Click to read more...

 

[Agalloch]

Bergevin must be working to sign Galchenyuk long term to 6-8 years.

 

[Coldplay]

Bergevin must be working to sign Galchenyuk long term to 6-8 years.

It's not that unbelievable. There were reports weeks ago that we were close to a deal...then nothing.

Hopefully it's something like 5x20, though that's optimistic.

 

[Fozz]

Regardless of what some say, we're a better team than we were at this time last year. The moves Bergevin made might not be significant but they all add value in some respect.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Regardless of what some say, we're a better team than we were at this time last year. The moves Bergevin made might not be significant but they all add value in some respect.

I don't think that's the criticism though.

I think most would agree that he's made some good moves. The real issue is whether or not those moves are signficant enough to make us cup champs. The core of a winning team is there, but I think a real scorer would put us over the top. He hasn't addressed this and some have been available.

 

[417]

I don't think that's the criticism though.

I think most would agree that he's made some good moves. The real issue is whether or not those moves are signficant enough to make us cup champs. The core of a winning team is there, but I think a real scorer would put us over the top. He hasn't addressed this and some have been available.

Do you think it's a bit early to criticise him on this though? What the Habs need is going to be extremely difficult to acquire, should he just make a deal to make a deal?

I prefer he remains patient and waits for the right deal, it's July 16th, there's not a summer roster freeze, he has the rest of the summer and really, until trade deadline 2016 to address this need.

Who knows, maybe the answer lies within this organization?

 

[NotProkofievian]

Do you think it's a bit early to criticise him on this though? What the Habs need is going to be extremely difficult to acquire, should he just make a deal to make a deal?

I prefer he remains patient and waits for the right deal, it's July 16th, there's not a summer roster freeze, he has the rest of the summer and really, until trade deadline 2016 to address this need.

Who knows, maybe the answer lies within this organization?

What would the right deal look like to you though? And how much longer is it reasonable to wait for it?

 

[Agalloch]

What would the right deal look like to you though? And how much longer is it reasonable to wait for it?

Draft picks for NHL player ? Like Petry's deal.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

Do you think it's a bit early to criticise him on this though? What the Habs need is going to be extremely difficult to acquire, should he just make a deal to make a deal?

I prefer he remains patient and waits for the right deal, it's July 16th, there's not a summer roster freeze, he has the rest of the summer and really, until trade deadline 2016 to address this need.

Who knows, maybe the answer lies within this organization?

We hear this every season, though.

"It's too hard"

"He still has plenty of time"

"Even if he doesn't acquire anyone we have up-and-coming talent so you can't say he failed"

 

[417]

What would the right deal look like to you though? And how much longer is it reasonable to wait for it?

The right deal? That's so difficult to answer...not sure, but that's MB's job to execute and I think he knows this and is working on it.

As for how much longer is it reasonable to wait for it?

It's July 16th, we're not even into the new hockey year...if its December and this roster is the same and still struggling to score goals, then I might agree it might be time to start demanding some changes

But we're a long way from that

 

[417]

We hear this every season, though.

"It's too hard"

"He still has plenty of time"

"Even if he doesn't acquire anyone we have up-and-coming talent so you can't say he failed"

Again...did the NHL pass a new rule where rosters are frozen mid July 2015 all the way through until July 1st 2016 or something?

I know it's summer time and it's boring and we'd all like to discuss a Habs move, but whether you like to hear this or not, there is PLENTY of time left.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

Again...did the NHL pass a new rule where rosters are frozen mid July 2015 all the way through until July 1st 2016 or something?

I know it's summer time and it's boring and we'd all like to discuss a Habs move, but whether you like to hear this or not, there is PLENTY of time left.

And again, this has been the same movie going on 4 off-seasons now.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Again...did the NHL pass a new rule where rosters are frozen mid July 2015 all the way through until July 1st 2016 or something?

I know it's summer time and it's boring and we'd all like to discuss a Habs move, but whether you like to hear this or not, there is PLENTY of time left.

...and it's been the same answer for the last few years...and yet we still haven't "transitioned" or progressed any further, unless you count Price playing Superman more often as team progress...

 

[Slew Foots]

I can't help but wonder what a GM with cojones like Jim Nill could have achieved with the Habs core in 2012: http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/04/red_wings_22.html

Instead, we ended up with an extremely risk averse GM like MB who essentially is just reaping the rewards from the core that he inherited from the previous management. He tweaked the bottom 6 - bravo. He brought in Petry, which is good.

I'm not saying MB is horrible, although hiring MT and sticking with him through thick and thin is a borderline fireable offence in my mind. But MB certainly isn't doing a very good job so far. With Price as our G, he could have done so much better to make our team more exciting and dangerous in the playoffs. Instead, we are stuck playing some of the most boring anti-hockey I have ever seen in my life. I don't know if my heart can take another season of MT with DD in our top 6. It really does pain me to see how things are going when I know we could easily be more serious cup contenders...

 

[JohnLennon]

And yet... the Leafs ate some of that salary with Pittsburgh giving almost nothing back.

You're talking like his contract would be impossible for us to absorb, it's not. Deal off Emelin there's four million right there. Leafs retain some - there's some more. DD as a salary dump or buy him out... of course its feasible.

That's not how trades work! You can't just say "yup, give this guy away and we have cap room"! Your whole concept of how trading works is warped. Just because the Leafs retained 1.25M, it doesn't mean they would've retained more to make a trade with us, and they CERTAINLY weren't willing to take back any significant salary.

DD as a salary dump/buy-out? Buying him out would make our cap issues even less manageable, and I'd like you to find a team willing to take on Desharnais' contract without giving us a contract in return. No, the likelihood that the Habs take on Kessel's contract is so extremely miniscule, that when you factor in other teams with more cap space and assets to trade, the possibility is almost non-existent. You make trades seem so easy "trade this guy, buy out this guy, TA-DA! Cap space!" It's not that simple, especially for a star like Kessel.

Again, many people suffer from this issue. They think that trades are so easy to make, and that's why so many people are so angry at Bergevin. They think it's so simple, and he should've managed to get a top 6 forward easily! No. That's not how any of this works. There are 30 teams in the league, all of whom ALSO want cap space and top 6 forwards. There's a possibility Bergevin could've made a couple of trades/moves in order to make space to acquire Kessel, as you suggest, but then after all of that, where is the guarantee that our offer can beat Pittsburgh's? Or the other teams that wanted him?There isn't. It's just not as simple as you imagine it being.

 

[le_sean]

I don't think that's the criticism though.

I think most would agree that he's made some good moves. The real issue is whether or not those moves are signficant enough to make us cup champs. The core of a winning team is there, but I think a real scorer would put us over the top. He hasn't addressed this and some have been available.

Agreed. Better team, but offence is still an issue.

Having Petry all year will be a big boost, I think the same can be said for Kassian. But still a scoring threat away from being an actual contender.

 

[Bryson]

Past thread reached 1000...

So.. Hum, I think he is doing good. He hasnt crippled us with a long-term mistake, and is clearly working hard to increase our talent and weight pool without overpaying.

I disagree. Just because a gm doesn't make any crippling trades doesn't make him a good gm. If all the teams around you are getting better while you're just standing still, you're actually regressing. It's like having money sitting in the bank. Even if you never spend it. You're still losing money to inflation every year. The world does not still. The opportunity cost would also be the added revenue from having invested that money.

As someone else said it best. There's a fine line between being patient and wasting time.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Do you think it's a bit early to criticise him on this though? What the Habs need is going to be extremely difficult to acquire, should he just make a deal to make a deal?

I prefer he remains patient and waits for the right deal, it's July 16th, there's not a summer roster freeze, he has the rest of the summer and really, until trade deadline 2016 to address this need.

Who knows, maybe the answer lies within this organization?

It's not too soon to be critical. It should've been fixed last year. We basically squandered great years from our core because we couldn't score.

The time to win is now and we shouldn't be hoping that some rookie can step up. We need a scorer. If a rookie steps up that's a bonus not something we should depend on.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

I disagree. Just because a gm doesn't make any crippling trades doesn't make him a good gm. If all the teams around you are getting better while you're just standing still, you're actually regressing. It's like having money sitting in the bank. Even if you never spend it. You're still losing money to inflation every year. The world does not still. The opportunity cost would also be the added revenue from having invested that money.

As someone else said it best. There's a fine line between being patient and wasting time.

...he's not just wasting time, he's beginning to waste the primes of Pacioretty, Price, and Subban's just ready to reach his...with a tweak or two in the Top 6, we're a strong contender now...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

That's not how trades work! You can't just say "yup, give this guy away and we have cap room"! Your whole concept of how trading works is warped. Just because the Leafs retained 1.25M, it doesn't mean they would've retained more to make a trade with us, and they CERTAINLY weren't willing to take back any significant salary.

DD as a salary dump/buy-out? Buying him out would make our cap issues even less manageable, and I'd like you to find a team willing to take on Desharnais' contract without giving us a contract in return. No, the likelihood that the Habs take on Kessel's contract is so extremely miniscule, that when you factor in other teams with more cap space and assets to trade, the possibility is almost non-existent. You make trades seem so easy "trade this guy, buy out this guy, TA-DA! Cap space!" It's not that simple, especially for a star like Kessel.

Again, many people suffer from this issue. They think that trades are so easy to make, and that's why so many people are so angry at Bergevin. They think it's so simple, and he should've managed to get a top 6 forward easily! No. That's not how any of this works. There are 30 teams in the league, all of whom ALSO want cap space and top 6 forwards. There's a possibility Bergevin could've made a couple of trades/moves in order to make space to acquire Kessel, as you suggest, but then after all of that, where is the guarantee that our offer can beat Pittsburgh's? Or the other teams that wanted him?There isn't. It's just not as simple as you imagine it being.

You are making excuses. Emelin is easily tradeable. Stop arguing against what is obvious and saying it can't be done. Of course it can.

 

[sampollock]

MB phone Carolina and ask about Staal.

then we start to make the top 6 stronger

 

[JohnLennon]

You are making excuses. Emelin is easily tradeable. Stop arguing against what is obvious and saying it can't be done. Of course it can.

It's not an excuse. You literally said "trade Emelin, that's 4M right there" as if it's simple as that. Not only would simply trading Emelin not be enough to take on Kessel's contract, even with retained salary, but how do you know his contract is "easily tradeable"? You don't. Trading for Kessel is so unlikely that it most probably would never happen. These aren't excuses; you just think trading is much easier than it actually is. And that isn't even addressing the fact that the trade market and free agency market was terrible this offseason.

Like I said, 30 TEAMS want cap space and top 6 forwards, not just your Montreal Canadiens. Stop arguing as if the Habs are at the fore-front of every single trade and that making moves to clear cap space is as easy as you imagine.

 

[417]

And again, this has been the same movie going on 4 off-seasons now.

Go look at this teams roster when Bergevin took it over and look at it today and come back and tell me that he hasn't made improvements.

That's just a plain lie...

It's not easy to build a Stanley Cup contending team, maybe some of you around here are too young to remember, but the Chicago Blackhawks when through some very dark years before being the team they are today, same with the Kings.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I disagree. Just because a gm doesn't make any crippling trades doesn't make him a good gm. If all the teams around you are getting better while you're just standing still, you're actually regressing. It's like having money sitting in the bank. Even if you never spend it. You're still losing money to inflation every year. The world does not still. The opportunity cost would also be the added revenue from having invested that money.

As someone else said it best. There's a fine line between being patient and wasting time.

As I said earlier, it's not enough to make minor moves if it doesn't put you over the top. We need that kind of trade now.

 

[417]

It's not too soon to be critical. It should've been fixed last year. We basically squandered great years from our core because we couldn't score.

The time to win is now and we shouldn't be hoping that some rookie can step up. We need a scorer. If a rookie steps up that's a bonus not something we should depend on.

He tried...although I was never a fan of acquiring Parenteau. I could of never imagined he would have been as brutal as he was this year.

He did try to add offense, he also went out and signed Sekac who was expected to be an offensive contributor, that experiment proved to be a failure.

I agree the time to win is now, but now doesn't have to mean July 16th at noon.