Friedman: Belief that trade agreed on Clarkson and a first to Vegas

[Viqsi]

Could be I trade you Clarkson & 1st round pick and draft Tynan or Gallant in the expansion draft.

That would be twenty billion times better. It makes some sense if we're doing an Expansion Draft Future Considerations thing as well, because we stand to lose someone really good otherwise. If we give away those kinds of assets just to dump Clarkson and still stand to lose a Jenner/Anderson/JJ/Korpisalo... fire his ****ing ass now before he can actually make it happen.

 

[EnglishDevil]

It likely means that Vegas have agreed to select a certain player in the expansion draft as well, likely allowing Columbus to protect all four of their non-exempt defencemen (Savard, Johnson, Murray & Jones) and Korpisalo too.

My guess is Vegas have agreed to take Josh Anderson or Matt Calvert instead.

 

[Viqsi]

It likely means that Vegas have agreed to select a certain player in the expansion draft as well, likely allowing Columbus to protect all four of their non-exempt defencemen (Savard, Johnson, Murray & Jones) and Korpisalo too.

My guess is Vegas have agreed to take Josh Anderson or Matt Calvert instead.

Calvert is rough but acceptable. Anderson? Anderson's the sort of guy I'd expect to be protected as a result of such a deal.

 

[Jackets16]

It likely means that Vegas have agreed to select a certain player in the expansion draft as well, likely allowing Columbus to protect all four of their non-exempt defencemen (Savard, Johnson, Murray & Jones) and Korpisalo too.

My guess is Vegas have agreed to take Josh Anderson or Matt Calvert instead.

Wrong. We would do this type of deal to keep him.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Holy living ****. He does both of the above and I'm right back around to "Fire Kekalainen Right ****ing Now" mode.

They'd be compounding one error with another one.

As soon as it comes down to trying to pinch pennies, then the team is not being ran the correct way. Horton was an expensive mistake, sure, but they need to just pay it up rather than dig into the team's resources to move the problem.

Could be I trade you Clarkson & 1st round pick and draft Tynan or Gallant in the expansion draft.

Only going by what Friedman has said Prospect+1st+Clarkson to Vegas...(and likely expansion draft considerations) - who knows what Cbus gets back? 2nd?

 

[McspOiler]

He said "Nobody in Vegas or Columbus are talking."

Then how does he know other than just speculating?

Because there are other teams in the league and people hear things just can't confirm with the major players.

 

[Jozay]

I thought Clarkson was on their LTIR

 

[Viqsi]

Only going by what Friedman has said Prospect+1st+Clarkson to Vegas...(and likely expansion draft considerations) - who knows what Cbus gets back? 2nd?

That's the thing. If the bolded is actually there as described, then that would actually make for something like a reasonable deal - depends on the prospect, obviously. The concern is that the only thing being mentioned is "prospect+1st+Clarkson", and it's a little too easy to see that as "all that just to dump the contract".

One therefore ought to presume that the bolded will be there on the assumption that Kekalainen is not a drooling idiot, but we have no way to know right now. Frankly, normally I do better than this "jump to the worst possible conclusion immediately" mishegaas, but, c'mon, my other team got jobbed last night and I'm still a little raw.

* * *​

I thought Clarkson was on their LTIR

He is; that's the reason for the frustration / disbelief.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I thought Clarkson was on their LTIR

He is and it's dumb to surrender a 1st round pick to move a guy that doesn't count on your cap because he's on LTIR.

 

[Viqsi]

He is and it's dumb to surrender a 1st round pick to move a guy that doesn't count on your cap because he's on LTIR.

Yeah... which is why a second and semi-generous Expansion Draft Considerations coming back makes sense.

 

[Alklha]

He is and it's dumb to surrender a 1st round pick to move a guy that doesn't count on your cap because he's on LTIR.

You have to think it is also an agreement that Vegas also select an agreed player in the draft, so not Karlsson or whoever.

LTIR doesn't count towards the cap, but it is problematic for teams that are spending close to the cap. Players need to be put on LTIR at the start of each season, so it creates a headache of being cap compliant on day 1. The other aspect is that you can't accrue LTIR space, so it makes in-season trades more difficult, particularly at the deadline.

The other factor is that I don't believe that it is known if insurance covers 100% of the Clarkson contract, or only a proportion.

 

[WTFMAN99]

That's the thing. If the bolded is actually there as described, then that would actually make for something like a reasonable deal - depends on the prospect, obviously. The concern is that the only thing being mentioned is "prospect+1st+Clarkson", and it's a little too easy to see that as "all that just to dump the contract".

One therefore ought to presume that the bolded will be there on the assumption that Kekalainen is not a drooling idiot, but we have no way to know right now. Frankly, normally I do better than this "jump to the worst possible conclusion immediately" mishegaas, but, c'mon, my other team got jobbed last night and I'm still a little raw.

* * *​

He is; that's the reason for the frustration / disbelief.

Maybe if Vegas takes Hartnell for you or Harrington then it's do-able.

 

[Viqsi]

Maybe if Vegas takes Hartnell for you or Harrington then it's do-able.

I'd prefer Harrington, really; Hartnell's contributing more, and we have plenty of good LHDs.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Yeah... which is why a second and semi-generous Expansion Draft Considerations coming back makes sense.

Yep pretty much what i was thinking as well, Must be another player that Vegas is taking from Columbus as well so i guess then maybe it makes a little more sense then.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I'd prefer Harrington, really; Hartnell's contributing more, and we have plenty of good LHDs.

I guess we'll see soon but this does go to show that some teams want out of these salary cap headaches.

 

[Go Wings]

This whole things screams cap circumvention to me.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

You have to think it is also an agreement that Vegas also select an agreed player in the draft, so not Karlsson or whoever.

LTIR doesn't count towards the cap, but it is problematic for teams that are spending close to the cap. Players need to be put on LTIR at the start of each season, so it creates a headache of being cap compliant on day 1. The other aspect is that you can't accrue LTIR space, so it makes in-season trades more difficult, particularly at the deadline.

The other factor is that I don't believe that it is known if insurance covers 100% of the Clarkson contract, or only a proportion.

You're right i forgot that's there's probably an agreed upon player heading from Columbus to Vegas as well so that would make a little more sense then.

Yeah the LTIR is a big headache for Detroit as well with Franzen on LTIR and then Kronwall was on LTIR as well, So that really messed up Detroit as well and Ken Holland has us tight up against the salary cap. So we wind up in a bad situation as well when it comes to making trade deadline deals. Because it affects our salary cap big time. So i can kind of get the picture at what Columbus is trying to do here. Columbus like Detroit needs to shed salary both teams are tight up against the cap here. And if the salary cap stays stagnant here for awhile. Both teams could be in big trouble.

Yeah don't know much about the Clarkson contract if insurance covers 100% of it or only a portion, That could have a lot to do with it as well.

 

[Curufinwe]

He is and it's dumb to surrender a 1st round pick to move a guy that doesn't count on your cap because he's on LTIR.

"Doesn't count" is not how it works for teams near the cap ceiling, which is why teams like the Flyers with Pronger and Boston with Savard went out of their way to move those contracts.

 

[Curufinwe]

This whole things screams cap circumvention to me.

No more so than Detroit trading Datsyuk to Arizona, which was also not circumvention.

 

[Blue Goose]

I still think Clarkson to Arizona makes more sense because the Coyotes will have more trouble getting to the cap floor than the Knights. But that's where letting CBJ dictate who Vegas picks in the expansion draft comes into play.

I saw it in another thread, but it appears that insurance is paying 80% of Clarkson's salary. I wonder if McPhee could work the deal to happen after Clarkson gets his signing bonus on July 1, and that 1st round pick could be the 2018 first rounder?

 

[Curufinwe]

This trade makes a lot of sense for Vegas. Like it or not they will have to absorb bad contracts if they want to reach the cap floor.

They have three months of free agency to reach the cap floor.

Meeting the 60% of the cap ceiling ($43.8m) with 30 contracts, which is all they have to do at the ED, is easy without taking any really bad contracts.

My mock from last month came to $52.4m, and that number doesn't even include Shipachyov.

Zucker-Stajan-Stempniak
Comeau-Karlsson-Eaves(UFA)
Raffl-Jankrok-Lewis
McKenzie-Sheahan-Copp(RFA)
Jaskin-Chaput-Rychel
Deslauriers

Methot-Martin
Coburn-K.Miller
Cole-Petrovic(RFA)
Davidson-TVR
Merril-Schenn
Pulock

Raanta
Grubauer(RFA)
Brossoit

 

[Zorf]

Unless I am mistaken, insurance doesn't cover 100% of the contract value for injured players. It's closer to 80%, and 80% of what Clarkson is due for the rest of his contract works out to around $3M.

So CLB is saving that $3M at the cost of a 1st round pick.


Last summer Ottawa gave NYR a 2nd round pick to delay the agreement on the Brass-Zib trade and save the $2M signing bonus that Brassard was scheduled to get. **This wasn't reported as such but was widely speculated and generally agreed upon by just about everyone**

 

[Zippy316]

You have to think it is also an agreement that Vegas also select an agreed player in the draft, so not Karlsson or whoever.

LTIR doesn't count towards the cap, but it is problematic for teams that are spending close to the cap. Players need to be put on LTIR at the start of each season, so it creates a headache of being cap compliant on day 1. The other aspect is that you can't accrue LTIR space, so it makes in-season trades more difficult, particularly at the deadline.

The other factor is that I don't believe that it is known if insurance covers 100% of the Clarkson contract, or only a proportion.

Insurance covers 80% of the salary.

It is also likely that insurance doesn't cover Clarkson's signing bonuses which is the bulk of his deal. It's very likely that Columbus has to pay those out of pocket which would be the real incentive to do this deal for them.

 

[phillipmike]

So CBJ would give up a 1st + prospect + whoever Vegas takes just to drop Clarkson who is on LTIR (doesn't hinder our capspace during the season) and is largely being paid by insurance. Plus they would give up a pick/prospect to NJ. Just to get a 34 year old Kovalchuk?

What am I missing?

CBJ ownership should just pay Clarkson themselves and keep the prospects and picks.

Yeah i dont see this making sense for Columbus unless they take Hartnell clearing more cap and avoid taking one of their D... which is unlikely due to Hartnell's NMC as you stated.

 

[Viqsi]

I still think Clarkson to Arizona makes more sense because the Coyotes will have more trouble getting to the cap floor than the Knights. But that's where letting CBJ dictate who Vegas picks in the expansion draft comes into play.

I saw it in another thread, but it appears that insurance is paying 80% of Clarkson's salary. I wonder if McPhee could work the deal to happen after Clarkson gets his signing bonus on July 1, and that 1st round pick could be the 2018 first rounder?

It's unclear as to whether or not "salary" in the context of "80% of Clarkson's salary" means salary as in the actual paid salary as defined by the CBA (not including signing bonuses), or "salary" as in the cash he receives that year independent of cap hit (including signing bonuses). It's been used interchangeably and confusingly for both and so we don't know for sure.