OT: Bears and NFL Talk Thread XLVI: Kevin White placed on IR
- Thread starter Sarava
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"I think we're both to the point where each has substantial flaws and can't be taken into mind without the other."
I agree with that on the 'which position is safer' front, but you haven't responded to my main point which is sack artists are more important than LTs, and it's harder to find elite sack artists outside of the top 10-15 picks than it is LTs. A team can win a super bowl with an average LT, but not an average sack artist.
"The problem with your analysis is that a lot of the top 11 in sacks last year were not drafted as speed rushers. In fact several are defensive tackles."
True, three of the 11 are. I still think my point stands, though. In fact, taking Atkins and Short out of the equation makes my point stronger.
I agree with that on the 'which position is safer' front, but you haven't responded to my main point which is sack artists are more important than LTs, and it's harder to find elite sack artists outside of the top 10-15 picks than it is LTs. A team can win a super bowl with an average LT, but not an average sack artist.
"The problem with your analysis is that a lot of the top 11 in sacks last year were not drafted as speed rushers. In fact several are defensive tackles."
True, three of the 11 are. I still think my point stands, though. In fact, taking Atkins and Short out of the equation makes my point stronger.
MurrayBannerman
I post about baseball on a hockey forum
I think you need one or the other. Or both. Look at Seattle with Okung paired with all the talent they had in the front 7. Or the Patriots with Solder and guys like Jamie Collins.
This isn't true, the Patriots won the Super Bowl with Rob Ninkovic as their top sack getter that season (8 sacks), the year before that Seattle won with Michael Bennett as their top pass rusher (8.5 sacks). The year before Paul Kruger was the Raven's top pass rusher (9 sacks). Your entire premise is flawed.
The top 10 in sacks last year
1. Watt - top 10 pick
2. Mack - top 10 pick
3. Ansah - top 10 pick
4. Dunlap - 2nd round pick
5. Jones - late 1st round pick
6. Wilkerson - defensive tackle, late first round pick
7. Mercilus - late first round pick
8. Atkins - 4th round pick
9. Miller - top 10 pick
10. Short - defensive tackle - 2nd round pick
11. Donald - defensive tackle, mid-first round pick
The idea the best pass rushers are all top 10 picks is just wrong. Also the teams of most players in that top 10 were bad. So having a great pass rusher does not mean you have a great team. Also that list is guys that were on teams with bad offenses meaning they had more shots to rush the passer. Its why just using sacks is a silly metric.
ChiGuySez
Cody Parkey GOAT
- Oct 4, 2006
- 8,444
- 30
The Bears draft was truly ridiculous. You have incredible value from the 2nd to the 9th picks.
There are beasts left and right there- that project at the very least to be good on special teams.
Floyd is an all or nothing guy- but he is a hard worker and has the frame to add muscle while keeping his athleticism.
He played out of place in college much of the time. Fangio is a genius. With his size he is a similar type of prospect that Aldon Smith was coming out of the NCAA.
Slightly slower- and bigger. I'm excited to see what comes of him. Look at who he gets to play with: Houston, Young, McPhee, Acho- all high character guys ( I want to say Willie is the only one who can be a bit of an idiot at times). Next to Freeman and Trevathan.
There are beasts left and right there- that project at the very least to be good on special teams.
Floyd is an all or nothing guy- but he is a hard worker and has the frame to add muscle while keeping his athleticism.
He played out of place in college much of the time. Fangio is a genius. With his size he is a similar type of prospect that Aldon Smith was coming out of the NCAA.
Slightly slower- and bigger. I'm excited to see what comes of him. Look at who he gets to play with: Houston, Young, McPhee, Acho- all high character guys ( I want to say Willie is the only one who can be a bit of an idiot at times). Next to Freeman and Trevathan.
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Same scheme, same coordinator, same projected rookie role.
Otherwise, Floyd is faster and significantly more athletic. Smith has longer arms and is seemingly much stronger. Very different specimens.
Obviously saying he'll be as great (HOF quality) as Aldon is stupid unless it happens
.I only look at race and 40 times when comparing players tbh.
Only way to go.
No, they're both great athletes (albeit in different ways) coming as situational pass rushers into Vic's D.
ChiHawks10
Registered User
Let me know all of the player taken in the top 10 that have big question marks about their athletic ability. Its relative to their position, i.e. wide receivers are more athletic than middle linebackers, but bad athletes aren't drafted in the top 10.
ChiHawks10
Registered User
Quarterbacks? I'd say there's prolly been quite a few taken top 10 that weren't even "good" athletes by NFL standards.
MurrayBannerman
I post about baseball on a hockey forum
You think those guys weren't great athletes?
Bosworth ran a 4.6 40 and benched 450 lbs at the combine.
Here's a blurb on Mandrich
Before he was “The Incredible Bust,†steroid-fueled Tony Mandarich of Michigan State was “The Incredible Bulk†— a player who Sports Illustrated proclaimed to be “the best offensive line prospect ever.†His workout numbers are still the stuff of legend: 39 repetitions on the 225-pound bench press and a mind-boggling 4.69 seconds in the 40-yard dash.
b1e9a8r5s
Registered User
You could argue every player drafted at all in the NFL is a great athlete. This is dumb.
The comparison to Aldon Smith was because of Fangio.
The comparison to Aldon Smith was because of Fangio.
You have to compare athletes relatively. Of course in the grand scheme of things they're great athletes. Always.
But a lot of high picks aren't great athletes by NFL standards. I'm not referring to any semblance of actual NFL production.
Athletic ability is about the speed, strength, agility, etc.
Not about the intangibles that put some above the rest.
But a lot of high picks aren't great athletes by NFL standards. I'm not referring to any semblance of actual NFL production.
Athletic ability is about the speed, strength, agility, etc.
Not about the intangibles that put some above the rest.
ADifferentTim
Knowledgeable & Pure
I think it's $$$ for the NFC if the Packers, 49ers, and Cowboys win their respective divisions, with the Rams and the Bears as NFC wildcards.
0% chance of the 49ers winning over the cards and seahawks.
Wouldn't be surprised if the vikings win over the packers, too.
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