BCHL adding 5 Alberta teams

[MeHateHe]

I actually know why this happened, as I spent a year as the newspaper editor in Quesnel, and even had a chat with an ownership group looking to bring a BCHL team there pre-HC split.

Huh. This is, of course, not surprising. Small towns and junior hockey players can often go that way. I wondered if maybe Chilliwack or the BCHL retained the Mills' name when they moved.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Yeah, and Penticton will never ever ever compete with the Chicago Steel, which seems to be just head and shoulders above everyone.

You might say that the existence of a super program makes everyone else compete harder, but if, for example, Warren Buffet decided he didn't need a new ivory back scratcher every year and didn't mind losing a few million on a junior hockey team, no one is going to compete with that. Taken to its extremes, if all the best players show up at one or two programs, it threatens to set back development, because you don't necessarily get better beating up on nine terrible teams while playing one other good competitive team.

I know you picked Warren Buffet as just a random name of a billionaire, but Buffet is famous for actually being pretty frugal in is personal life. He still lives in the same house in Omaha he's lived in for years, he'll buy a nice car (a Cadillac or something) but then drives it for years and years. He both doesn't buy ivory back-scratchers - but he almost certainly would mind losing money on a hockey team.

Huh. This is, of course, not surprising. Small towns and junior hockey players can often go that way. I wondered if maybe Chilliwack or the BCHL retained the Mills' name when they moved.

The only thing for me is - don't junior hockey players in small towns always have this reputation?

 

[MeHateHe]

He both doesn't buy ivory back-scratchers - but he almost certainly would mind losing money on a hockey team.

This doesn't answer the question about his need for new ivory back scratchers.

 

[Corso]

Yeah, and Penticton will never ever ever compete with the Chicago Steel, which seems to be just head and shoulders above everyone.

You might say that the existence of a super program makes everyone else compete harder, but if, for example, Warren Buffet decided he didn't need a new ivory back scratcher every year and didn't mind losing a few million on a junior hockey team, no one is going to compete with that. Taken to its extremes, if all the best players show up at one or two programs, it threatens to set back development, because you don't necessarily get better beating up on nine terrible teams while playing one other good competitive

The Steel have taken a step back this year and the change in ownership from Robbins to the Wirtz corporation wasn't the positive development some people tried to spin it as. Robbins, who if I'm not mistaken had two sons play for the Steel, was a very hands-on owner that spared no expense in making the Steel successful. To the Wirts corporation, the Steel are a very minor asset that not a whole lot of attention (or money) will be given to. You could see the drop in last year's tenders (decent players but no Celebrini, Fantili , Powers or Hage types) and this year they are in a dog fight with the Soo Grey Hounds (no pun) over Callum Corskery.

The new powers in the USHL will be the Fargo Force, Sioux Falls Stampede and the Green Bay Gamblers, all markets that are much more profitable and will begin to flex their financial muscles more and more. Now this doesn't mean that the other markets will not have successful runs from time to time but they will have difficulty being consistently good (much like the lower and even mid tier NCAA programs) and you have to wonder how that will impact the fan base and the all important revenue streams.

 

[MeHateHe]

The Steel have taken a step back this year and the change in ownership from Robbins to the Wirtz corporation wasn't the positive development some people tried to spin it as. Robbins, who if I'm not mistaken had two sons play for the Steel, was a very hands-on owner that spared no expense in making the Steel successful. To the Wirts corporation, the Steel are a very minor asset that not a whole lot of attention (or money) will be given to. You could see the drop in last year's tenders (decent players but no Celebrini, Fantili , Powers or Hage types) and this year they are in a dog fight with the Soo Grey Hounds (no pun) over Callum Corskery.

The new powers in the USHL will be the Fargo Force, Sioux Falls Stampede and the Green Bay Gamblers, all markets that are much more profitable and will begin to flex their financial muscles more and more. Now this doesn't mean that the other markets will not have successful runs from time to time but they will have difficulty being consistently good (much like the lower and even mid tier NCAA programs) and you have to wonder how that will impact the fan base and the all importan revenue streams.

Thanks for the context. I am not fully versed in power structures within the USHL.

It's interesting though, that when the CHL started putting teams in NHL markets (Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton) there was an expectation that the big city teams would really run away with things, and that places like Kamloops (which had been dominant for large stretches leading to that point) or Lethbridge or Brandon would have to be content to swim in their sea, never getting to eat their chum (boy, did I torture that metaphor, or what?).

There are franchises more solid than others, for sure, but Prince Albert, and Swift Current and Brandon and Kelowna have all won championships in the last decade. This year, perennial also-ran Prince George has built a pretty solid team, even if they don't get past Portland this spring, and they have the pieces for another very good club next year, even if Heidt and Ziemmer don't come back.

There's no question the CHL needs to be a lot more introspective about how they treat their players and what they need to do to make their program more attractive to high-end talent, but at the same time, the league is producing its best crop of elite players in recent memory, with players like Bedard, McKenna and others. And they're doing it in the context of a system that gives franchises and communities at least some small hope that success isn't just a word in the dictionary.

 

[joestevens29]

The BCHL shouldn't want to get too big. Ideally, you want an entire league of players with a good chance of playing competitive NCAA D1 hockey. Ideally in a way where they jump straight there, and unlike now where so many do a stopgap in the USHL in-between. Part of what makes the USHL competitive is it remains very small. There are 15 teams plus the USNDTP as the 16th team. There are more future NCAA players than USHL spots, with lower teams drawing from Tier 2 leagues.

As far as Ontario, there is definitely a gap with a lot of OHL region kids going down south into the USHL currently. However, are there any Ontario Junior A clubs that are really ready to step up and become premiere NCAA feeders as many BCHL and the best of the AJHL had already been for some time prior to breakaway? Let alone enough of them to feasibly come together and form a breakaway league? You could start pulling the best across multiple regions but a narrow travel schedule compared to Major Junior is a large appeal to this path and helps keep the costs down in what is not really a profitable venture.

I wonder though if part of expanding is because they are going to lose other teams, so maybe they don't really get much bigger in the short-term

 

[Takuto Maruki]

Thanks for the context. I am not fully versed in power structures within the USHL.

It's interesting though, that when the CHL started putting teams in NHL markets (Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton) there was an expectation that the big city teams would really run away with things, and that places like Kamloops (which had been dominant for large stretches leading to that point) or Lethbridge or Brandon would have to be content to swim in their sea, never getting to eat their chum (boy, did I torture that metaphor, or what?).

There are franchises more solid than others, for sure, but Prince Albert, and Swift Current and Brandon and Kelowna have all won championships in the last decade. This year, perennial also-ran Prince George has built a pretty solid team, even if they don't get past Portland this spring, and they have the pieces for another very good club next year, even if Heidt and Ziemmer don't come back.

There's no question the CHL needs to be a lot more introspective about how they treat their players and what they need to do to make their program more attractive to high-end talent, but at the same time, the league is producing its best crop of elite players in recent memory, with players like Bedard, McKenna and others. And they're doing it in the context of a system that gives franchises and communities at least some small hope that success isn't just a word in the dictionary.

Lets be real, when it comes to the metro-Canadian markets (PNW markets I feel like need to be separated for this comparison) the CHL in general is going to be so far down the totem pole in terms of potential for sports dollars (and in the case of EDM/CGY, directly owned by the pro teams themselves) that I don't think that there is going to be much worry about things.

That being said...strictly speaking from my own backyard, there should probably be more worry about demographic changes in core WHL towns like Brandon, Swift Current, Red Deer etc. and how that ultimately plays into overall attendance and market health. I've lived in Brandon now since that WHL championship in 2016, actually, and I've seen a pretty noticeable drop in terms of people coming into games to where a 5k arena is probably filled at 2.5k on Wednesday nights, and maaaaybe 3, 3 and a half k on Friday and Saturday nights. Hell, the most I've seen the Keystone filled is for Bedard's last major junior game, and even the last two playoff runs have been pretty much at the same napkin numbers I've outlined above.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The Steel have taken a step back this year and the change in ownership from Robbins to the Wirtz corporation wasn't the positive development some people tried to spin it as. Robbins, who if I'm not mistaken had two sons play for the Steel, was a very hands-on owner that spared no expense in making the Steel successful. To the Wirts corporation, the Steel are a very minor asset that not a whole lot of attention (or money) will be given to. You could see the drop in last year's tenders (decent players but no Celebrini, Fantili , Powers or Hage types) and this year they are in a dog fight with the Soo Grey Hounds (no pun) over Callum Corskery.

Michael Misa was likely to tender in '23 but not then got ES so he didn't end up coming, so that left only their 2nd choice tender in Lukas Sawchyn without that big stamp 1st round pick like prior years. That happens though, no different than college teams missing a recruiting target and having an occasional down year. One missed tender that was almost certainly because they gave him Exceptional Status is not a trend yet. Nobody around the Steel thinks Croskery isn't coming. There is a reason he went 40th in the OHL Draft. Not sure where you are hearing this "dog fight", seems much more akin to them holding the draft rights for a top kid incase he changes his path at some point.

The new powers in the USHL will be the Fargo Force, Sioux Falls Stampede and the Green Bay Gamblers, all markets that are much more profitable and will begin to flex their financial muscles more and more. Now this doesn't mean that the other markets will not have successful runs from time to time but they will have difficulty being consistently good (much like the lower and even mid tier NCAA programs) and you have to wonder how that will impact the fan base and the all important revenue streams.

You have a knack of saying for very conclusory things... Dubuque, Muskegon, Youngstown are all not going anywhere either. I think you're just looking at attendance and drawing too many conclusions. Sioux Falls has been a terrible team the past few years until this season. I have no idea where you come off that there is a new world order in place. As of very recently, USHL teams have done a nice job of turning small profits with a solid and stable business model. Corporate sponsorships and lack of travel are the biggest things here. the Omaha Lancers were the ones in financial turmoil, not sure how new ownership has helped there.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

That is why small market teams will have to be shed as they simply will not be able to compete against the larger programs. Of course the same issues is rearing it's head in college hockey as the imbalance between the larger richer programs and their smaller poorer brethren continues to grow.

Players today are demanding more and more benefits/perks and only the larger markets will be able to survive.

I even wonder about some USHL programs. Take a look at last night's playoff attendance (yes I know, Monday games but playoff attendance is often indicative of a season ticket base)

Apr. 15

Madison

7

Youngstown

4

Covelli Centre

647

Final

Apr. 15

Lincoln

1

Waterloo

0

Young Arena

1448

Final

Apr. 15

Sioux Falls

6

Tri-City

5

Viaero Center

881

Final OT

Apr. 15

Chicago

5

Green Bay

6

Resch Center

641

Final

Those are some terrible numbers and for comparison these are the attendance figures for midweek BCHL playoff games

Apr. 9

West Kelowna

3

Cranbrook

2

Western Financial Place

1167

Final

Apr. 9

Surrey

3

Cowichan Valley

5

Cowichan Community Centre

982

Final

Apr. 9

Salmon Arm

4

Merritt

1

Nicola Valley Memorial Arena

834

Final

Apr. 9

Victoria

3

Nanaimo

5

Frank Crane Arena

1145

Final

Apr. 9

Penticton

3

Prince George

2

Kopar Memorial Arena

776

Final OT2

Apr. 9

Vernon

5

Trail

3

Cominco Arena

1101

Final

Apr. 9

Alberni Valley

5

Coquitlam

3

Poirier Sports and Leisure Centre

885

Final

Very similar to the USHL and that begs the question, can most of these teams in these leagues survive when the top echelon of players that they all are competing for are demanding more and more benefits that will lead to much greater costs?

Just for a comparison, here's the last 3 games played in the GOJHL (Ontario Jr. B).

 

[WarriorofTime]

Of course the same issues is rearing it's head in college hockey as the imbalance between the larger richer programs and their smaller poorer brethren continues to grow.

Not sure I understand this statement. The imbalance is less "continues to grow", there has always been a huge imbalance. However, this is not necessarily a bug in NCAA sports. Not sure if you follow NCAA Men's Basketball which is pretty healthy. It's less useful to think of NCAA as one league. Rather each conference is more so its own thing, so the rich programs tend to congregate in the same conferences while the poor programs congregate in their own conferences. You don't necessarily a balance between conferences, this is where "power conference" and "mid-majors" arise or even with programs within the conference as teams have a bit of a natural order to them. College Sports (whether it exists in NCAA form or not) also had the advantage unlike junior hockey of being tied to overall athletic departments and a broader university, so there is a bigger backstop that doesn't require a hockey team to turn a profit or having an owner funding operations out of pocket.

 

[MeHateHe]

That being said...strictly speaking from my own backyard, there should probably be more worry about demographic changes in core WHL towns like Brandon, Swift Current, Red Deer etc. and how that ultimately plays into overall attendance and market health. I've lived in Brandon now since that WHL championship in 2016, actually, and I've seen a pretty noticeable drop in terms of people coming into games to where a 5k arena is probably filled at 2.5k on Wednesday nights, and maaaaybe 3, 3 and a half k on Friday and Saturday nights. Hell, the most I've seen the Keystone filled is for Bedard's last major junior game, and even the last two playoff runs have been pretty much at the same napkin numbers I've outlined above.

Hockey teams specifically and sports franchises in general in this country do a terrible job of marketing their product. For too many, their key focus is finding someone to open the door, thinking that the fans are going to flood right in.

Canadian sports fans are kinda lazy, and kinda homebound. If they want to watch sports, their are 14 TV channels (and eleventy trillion legal and illegal streams) showing something on some screen somewhere. Why go out and spend $100 for a family to see a game live?

As Tom ServoMST3K has pointed out, the loss of local media has meant that no one is talking about the team except at the stadium, and that means the local connection is gone. That's worse in larger centres, because their focus will always be on the bigger clubs, so in some ways, the Brandons and the Kamloopses have an inherent edge - if they choose to use it.

I don't know what it's like in Prince George this spring, but I was there the year that they went to the conference final in the 90s, with Chara and Brewer in the lineup and people would be talking about the club with strangers on the street. There were 2 1/2 newspapers in town, plus the TV station and three radio stations (not including the university station) all talking non-stop about the club.

Absent that media attention, teams have to do more to get the club and its players directly in the line of sight of the people who live there. They miss out on the easy wins - when Bedard was packing the rinks, they should have been walking through the arena handing out free single tickets to any kid under the age of 8, because you need to get kids thinking about going to games early, and those kids aren't coming without at least one parent.

It's way harder than it used to be to market hockey in Canada, make no mistake about that, but too many sports franchises in this country are stuck in 1984 thinking. A kiss cam and loud music is just not enough to bring people in the doors.

 

[joestevens29]

Hockey teams specifically and sports franchises in general in this country do a terrible job of marketing their product. For too many, their key focus is finding someone to open the door, thinking that the fans are going to flood right in.

Canadian sports fans are kinda lazy, and kinda homebound. If they want to watch sports, their are 14 TV channels (and eleventy trillion legal and illegal streams) showing something on some screen somewhere. Why go out and spend $100 for a family to see a game live?

As Tom ServoMST3K has pointed out, the loss of local media has meant that no one is talking about the team except at the stadium, and that means the local connection is gone. That's worse in larger centres, because their focus will always be on the bigger clubs, so in some ways, the Brandons and the Kamloopses have an inherent edge - if they choose to use it.

I don't know what it's like in Prince George this spring, but I was there the year that they went to the conference final in the 90s, with Chara and Brewer in the lineup and people would be talking about the club with strangers on the street. There were 2 1/2 newspapers in town, plus the TV station and three radio stations (not including the university station) all talking non-stop about the club.

Absent that media attention, teams have to do more to get the club and its players directly in the line of sight of the people who live there. They miss out on the easy wins - when Bedard was packing the rinks, they should have been walking through the arena handing out free single tickets to any kid under the age of 8, because you need to get kids thinking about going to games early, and those kids aren't coming without at least one parent.

It's way harder than it used to be to market hockey in Canada, make no mistake about that, but too many sports franchises in this country are stuck in 1984 thinking. A kiss cam and loud music is just not enough to bring people in the doors.

I'm curious how Edmonton getting a local radio station back helped out sports in Edmonton and surrounding areas.

When they were gone there for a few months even the CFL team got little to no attention on local radio, but now with them back they are very good at talking about the CFL, AJHL, University sports, whatever league the Edmonton Stingers are apart of etc...

Especially with the AJHL they really pump it up as a good cheap alternative for some quality hockey action.

Sure they talk about the Oilers a ton, but when they were gone the only sports talk on radio was the Oilers.

Edit: And not locally, but having Andi Petrillo on every Monday sure brings attention to the PWHL and Canadian soccer.

 

[Corso]

Thanks for the context. I am not fully versed in power structures within the USHL.

It's interesting though, that when the CHL started putting teams in NHL markets (Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton) there was an expectation that the big city teams would really run away with things, and that places like Kamloops (which had been dominant for large stretches leading to that point) or Lethbridge or Brandon would have to be content to swim in their sea, never getting to eat their chum (boy, did I torture that metaphor, or what?).

There are franchises more solid than others, for sure, but Prince Albert, and Swift Current and Brandon and Kelowna have all won championships in the last decade. This year, perennial also-ran Prince George has built a pretty solid team, even if they don't get past Portland this spring, and they have the pieces for another very good club next year, even if Heidt and Ziemmer don't come back.

There's no question the CHL needs to be a lot more introspective about how they treat their players and what they need to do to make their program more attractive to high-end talent, but at the same time, the league is producing its best crop of elite players in recent memory, with players like Bedard, McKenna and others. And they're doing it in the context of a system that gives franchises and communities at least some small hope that success isn't just a word in the dictionary.

No question some small market teams have competed but I am sure it is getting more and more difficult to run operations and acquire top end talent. The WHL and CHL in general is going to have to increase benefits paid to players and that will put pressure on smaller markets. Gate attendance will matter a great deal and if they cannot draw fans, the less revenue they generate causing a downward spiral. Looking at playoff attendance, however, it seems that Kelowna, Brandon and even Swift Current are drawing close to 3000 paying customers a game through the playoffs so far. That is a solid base on which to build on.

Just for a comparison, here's the last 3 games played in the GOJHL (Ontario Jr. B).

View attachment 852932

For Junor B hockey, those are some impressive numbers!

 

[jetsmooseice]

It's way harder than it used to be to market hockey in Canada, make no mistake about that, but too many sports franchises in this country are stuck in 1984 thinking. A kiss cam and loud music is just not enough to bring people in the doors.

One big difference between 1984 and 2024 is that in 1984, the typical Canadian had one televised NHL game a week accessible to them on HNIC. Maybe an extra game a week on the local rightsholder (they were pretty infrequent here in Winnipeg, but maybe Toronto had most games televised).

Today, all it takes is a cable subscription to see your local team play all of its games on TV. Even a Centre Ice subscription is not that onerous if you like an out of market team.

In light of that, it's almost miraculous that junior hockey is still as supported as well as it is given that you could stay home and watch the best of the best in HD or 4K, no tickets necessary, no driving to the arena on a cold night, no overpriced snacks and drinks, etc. But that said, "the biggest game in town" will always serve as a rallying point for a community... whether that's the Oilers in Calgary, the Roughriders in Saskatchewan or the Wheat Kings in Brandon. So the smaller markets do have that advantage for sure. The Wheat Kings matter a lot more to Brandon than the Hitmen do to Calgary, for instance.

 

[Yukon Joe]

One big difference between 1984 and 2024 is that in 1984, the typical Canadian had one televised NHL game a week accessible to them on HNIC. Maybe an extra game a week on the local rightsholder (they were pretty infrequent here in Winnipeg, but maybe Toronto had most games televised).

Today, all it takes is a cable subscription to see your local team play all of its games on TV. Even a Centre Ice subscription is not that onerous if you like an out of market team.

In light of that, it's almost miraculous that junior hockey is still as supported as well as it is given that you could stay home and watch the best of the best in HD or 4K, no tickets necessary, no driving to the arena on a cold night, no overpriced snacks and drinks, etc. But that said, "the biggest game in town" will always serve as a rallying point for a community... whether that's the Oilers in Calgary, the Roughriders in Saskatchewan or the Wheat Kings in Brandon. So the smaller markets do have that advantage for sure. The Wheat Kings matter a lot more to Brandon than the Hitmen do to Calgary, for instance.

I go to 1-2 Oil Kings games per year. It's always kind of remarkable how they market the hell out of that team. They know they can't just sit on their laurels. So they have tons of special nights (Teddy Bear Toss, Star Wars night comes to mind). They market the hell to minor hockey teams. They have minor hockey teams holding the flag, playing a mini game, group discounts, and a ton of other things.

It's not so much the in-arena spectacle (I think they're constrained because they can't do more than the Oilers) but just a lot of marketing.

 

[Corso]

So the smaller markets do have that advantage for sure. The Wheat Kings matter a lot more to Brandon than the Hitmen do to Calgary, for instance.

Yes, if they can garner the necessary community support, if not then well....

I would love for someone to provide a break even point for revenue and expenses for your typical Junor A franchise that provides for equipment, travel and billeting (in short, all costs covered to play). I would imagine that such costs would have to run close to 350K per year. Throw in coaches and GM salaries and that figure most likely rises to 550k per annum (and I'm being really conservative here).

A CHL franchise's expense is easily double that as coaches are paid far more and they are required to pay all post secondary educational expenses.

 

[MeHateHe]

One big difference between 1984 and 2024 is that in 1984, the typical Canadian had one televised NHL game a week accessible to them on HNIC. Maybe an extra game a week on the local rightsholder (they were pretty infrequent here in Winnipeg, but maybe Toronto had most games televised).

Yeah, and that's kind of my point. A local hockey game isn't the only game in town the way it was in 1984, so you can't market like it's 1984.

That's why I keep saying the opportunity is there: people are looking for - desperately in some cases - things they can attach themselves to. You can get Canadians off their couches and away from their screens, but if they're going to show up more than once or twice a year, it has to matter to them. These clubs miss that opportunity by not having a local connection. I've said that having a bunch of local kids on the team might do that to some extent, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the only way of accomplishing it.

I'm not saying any of this is easy - it is way harder than 30 years ago, for sure - but the opportunity remains.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

The Wheat Kings matter a lot more to Brandon than the Hitmen do to Calgary, for instance.

True...but with shifting demo numbers, and with a massive surplus in entertainment, how much will that community tie be worth in fifteen, twenty years?

I will give the previous ownership - and especially Jacobson - credit for one thing: they've continued to pride themselves on offering the cheapest tickets in the Dub, through thick and thin. And Jacobson especially has realized that the Keystone isn't getting any younger, so they're investing money into the general experience especially after COVID (the party deck, new seats coming in next year, the house band that came and went, which was nice for a change) and trying to change things and make a more whole experience game over game.

But again, considering the amount of new Canadians coming in to work in the Maple Leaf plant, and either having their own sports interests from their homelands (especially soccer, which is becoming bigger in Westman) or look at sport programs in Westman and see the exorbitant ice time and equipment and realize 'why bother', it's a ticking time bomb that the entirety of second tier cities outside of major metros are going to bear the brunt of - and Hockey Canada has been wholly ignorant at best in trying to fix or mitigate the problem.

 

[jetsmooseice]

But again, considering the amount of new Canadians coming in to work in the Maple Leaf plant, and either having their own sports interests from their homelands (especially soccer, which is becoming bigger in Westman) or look at sport programs in Westman and see the exorbitant ice time and equipment and realize 'why bother', it's a ticking time bomb that the entirety of second tier cities outside of major metros are going to bear the brunt of - and Hockey Canada has been wholly ignorant at best in trying to fix or mitigate the problem.

I have heard this type of criticism about the accessibility of hockey before, with the high costs relative to fast-growing sports like soccer and basketball. But what is the alternative? How do you avoid that given that hockey requires a lot of specialized equipment and ice to play on? At the end of the day someone has to pay those bills whether it's the parents or otherwise.

 

[joestevens29]

I have heard this type of criticism about the accessibility of hockey before, with the high costs relative to fast-growing sports like soccer and basketball. But what is the alternative? How do you avoid that given that hockey requires a lot of specialized equipment and ice to play on? At the end of the day someone has to pay those bills whether it's the parents or otherwise.

There isn't much you can do other than try limit your costs. Use outdoor rinks for practice once and awhile, by second hand equipment, work the fundraisers.

Even after all that it's still not exactly cheap and hopefully once kids are older they realize the sacrifice that their parents made to allow you to play the game.

 

[jetsmooseice]

There isn't much you can do other than try limit your costs. Use outdoor rinks for practice once and awhile, by second hand equipment, work the fundraisers.

Even after all that it's still not exactly cheap and hopefully once kids are older they realize the sacrifice that their parents made to allow you to play the game.

I agree with you there! There probably aren't many sports that require the sustained level of commitment and spending that hockey does. Except maybe for the equestrian sports, haha. But most of us hockey parents know the drill, start with backyard rinks/skating lessons when the kids are preschoolers, then the minor hockey rigamarole, then for the kids who make it to elite levels, all the big bills that come with that. It's pretty demanding.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

I have heard this type of criticism about the accessibility of hockey before, with the high costs relative to fast-growing sports like soccer and basketball. But what is the alternative? How do you avoid that given that hockey requires a lot of specialized equipment and ice to play on? At the end of the day someone has to pay those bills whether it's the parents or otherwise.

There isn't much you can do other than try limit your costs. Use outdoor rinks for practice once and awhile, by second hand equipment, work the fundraisers.

Even after all that it's still not exactly cheap and hopefully once kids are older they realize the sacrifice that their parents made to allow you to play the game.

And in a way, this is the catch 22 that lies at the very heart of the matter, and something that especially the equipment manufacturers and Hockey Canada probably aren't going to budge on trying to alleviate things even more for families then they possibly can. And it really just belies what is probably going to be a nuclear bomb in terms of overall development for the sport at large, especially within North America. With wages stagnating, more families living pay check to pay check, and so many more sporting options available (that are either incredibly cheap in terms of equipment, or in the case of football, subsidized) for kids to go into, why bother with hockey?

And in a way, that's probably going to be the larger issue that leagues like the Dub, hell even the BCHL, will have to deal with in the very near future.

 

[Corso]

And in a way, this is the catch 22 that lies at the very heart of the matter, and something that especially the equipment manufacturers and Hockey Canada probably aren't going to budge on trying to alleviate things even more for families then they possibly can. And it really just belies what is probably going to be a nuclear bomb in terms of overall development for the sport at large, especially within North America. With wages stagnating, more families living pay check to pay check, and so many more sporting options available (that are either incredibly cheap in terms of equipment, or in the case of football, subsidized) for kids to go into, why bother with hockey?

And in a way, that's probably going to be the larger issue that leagues like the Dub, hell even the BCHL, will have to deal with in the very near future.

The real ticking time bomb is the birthrate collapse in North America that began during the Great Recession and accelerated post Covid. There will be fewer and fewer kids that play due to cost in an ever shrinking available pool of talent due to less and less births.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The real ticking time bomb is the birthrate collapse in North America that began during the Great Recession and accelerated post Covid. There will be fewer and fewer kids that play due to cost in an ever shrinking available pool of talent due to less and less births.

It’ll be interesting to see if Junior A/Junior B teams have to start closing their doors. The lower you go, the harder it is to justify a large player base on the elite hockey track.

 

[Bubbles]

True...but with shifting demo numbers, and with a massive surplus in entertainment, how much will that community tie be worth in fifteen, twenty years?

I will give the previous ownership - and especially Jacobson - credit for one thing: they've continued to pride themselves on offering the cheapest tickets in the Dub, through thick and thin. And Jacobson especially has realized that the Keystone isn't getting any younger, so they're investing money into the general experience especially after COVID (the party deck, new seats coming in next year, the house band that came and went, which was nice for a change) and trying to change things and make a more whole experience game over game.

It also helps his son will be playing for the WK for the next 3 years (at least).