Battle of Alberta

[Fish on The Sand]

I have a question. Today this rivalry is quite fierce, and I was curious as to the origins of the rivalry. Is it strictly a geographic rivalry, or did the playoff matches in the 80s forge a dislike between the two teams? More liekly it is a combination of the two, but I was wondering which factor played a larger role.

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[Zaphod]

I'd say it's quite specifically geographical, in that the two cities actually have quite a fierce rivalry that gets to express itself in sport.

 

[Big Phil]

Geographical, but it helps that both teams were good/great and almost always played each other in the playoffs. There's a couple of Game #7's in '84 and '86. There's the sweep in '88. Steve Smith. Messier almost killing Macoun. Tikkanen's Game #7 OT winner.

 

[VelvetJones]

Geographical but at the beginning they were the two best teams in the league and it was ugly at times. The battle of Alberta is nothing close to what it once was, people say a playoff series is needed to get it back up to speed.

It's more about the fans than the teams hating each other with a passion.

 

[Hoser]

I don't think you comprehend what 'the Battle of Alberta' encompasses. Flames vs. Oilers is a small, relatively new offshoot of a very long political, social, economic and cultural rivalry between the cities of Calgary and Edmonton. The NHL is just a relatively new arena for mock battle between the two cities; a half-ass civilized form of warfare where no one actually gets hurt. It has nothing to do with hockey.

 

[Ogopogo*]

Geographical. The rivalry exists in hockey, football, baseball, lacrosse and everything else you can think of that citizens of two cities would battle about.

Of course, Edmonton wins. We have more championships all around.

 

[Badger Bob]

Here's the REAL Battle of Alberta:




What goes on now is more of a rivalry b/t cities and fans than teams.

 

[Big Phil]

I cant find it anywhere on Youtube but does anyone have footage of Messier's mauling of Macoun back in '84 or so? That would tell you how fierce it was then

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Here's the REAL Battle of Alberta:




What goes on now is more of a rivalry b/t cities and fans than teams.

Definitely. I don't think they players on the ice now have the same disdain for each other that they did 20 years ago. But the fan rivalry seems to grow ever stronger. You can usually count on a number of scraps in the stands, and you better not go into a bar wearing the wrong jersey, or there's probably gonna be trouble.

 

[JaymzB]

Definitely. I don't think they players on the ice now have the same disdain for each other that they did 20 years ago. But the fan rivalry seems to grow ever stronger. You can usually count on a number of scraps in the stands, and you better not go into a bar wearing the wrong jersey, or there's probably gonna be trouble.

I think the lack of players rivalry is simply a case of the teams not meeting in the playoffs for a good 15 years or so.

 

[golfortennis]

I think the lack of players rivalry is simply a case of the teams not meeting in the playoffs for a good 15 years or so.

Not just that, but the players don't stay on the same teams for nearly as long. Not saying I'm a good ol' days, "you could list the lineup in your sleep" guy, but when you are just as likely to have been a teammate with a guy for a couple of years previously, the venom isn't likely to be quite the same.

I can think of Gretzky, Kurri, Messier, Lowe, Anderson, Coffey, Huddy, and Moog who were on the Oilers in 80-81 and were still there for the 87 Cup win. Calgary had Peplinksi, Reinhart, in that year. Their list is a little shorter, given that there's 5 HoFers in the Oiler list, but from the 83 team that first met the Oilers in the playoffs, there were those two plus Reinhart, MacInnis, McDonald, Vernon, and I probably missed one or two on both sides. Not only were the crests on the front the same each year, but the names on the back as well. *That* is what creates the venom.

 

[K1984]

As an Oiler fan I can say the rivalry is heated between Calgary and Edmonton supporters. Although I'm not sure the players really hate each other, the tempo and the physicality of B of A games is a notch higher than any other game. The crowd is always louder and much more roudy in a Calgary Edmonton game, so I think it rubbs off a bit on the players.

 

[greatgazoo]

I have a question. Today this rivalry is quite fierce, and I was curious as to the origins of the rivalry. Is it strictly a geographic rivalry, or did the playoff matches in the 80s forge a dislike between the two teams? More liekly it is a combination of the two, but I was wondering which factor played a larger role.

The 8 regular season games vs each other were also battles inside of the equivalent of a hockey war. It was always a treat to read the box score the next day to see how many line and bench brawls there were. Both teams had nuclear bombs and weren't afraid to use them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvX0AbaC6qc&feature=related

 

[oilfan9]

probably because the Oilers were so doiminant and the flames were jealous, so they tried to act tough and they still got beat

 

[VelvetJones]

probably because the Oilers were so doiminant and the flames were jealous, so they tried to act tough and they still got beat

Flames were the 2nd best in the league, if the Oilers weren't around it wouldn't be a stretch to say that the flames would have 3+ cups.

 

[Trottier]

I've watched a lot of hockey in my time, and a lot of great rivalries.

None was as intense as Edmonton/Calgary in the 80s.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

probably because the Oilers were so doiminant and the flames were jealous, so they tried to act tough and they still got beat

You're free to your opinion, although based on this post and your profile, my guess is that you weren't old enough to know what was going on during the 1980s rivalry.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Well as some born in Edmonton---it is not just hockey.

In the 80's the eski's sacked a coah cause he couldn't beat calagary--he had a winning record--but could not beat calgary

 

[JaymzB]

I've watched a lot of hockey in my time, and a lot of great rivalries.

None was as intense as Edmonton/Calgary in the 80s.

I'd still put Habs/Nords above it, but maybe that is just my hazy memory from living in Montreal as a kid.

 

[Badger Bob]

I think the lack of players rivalry is simply a case of the teams not meeting in the playoffs for a good 15 years or so.

That's definitely part of it, but other factors are at work too. Like somebody else pointed out, there's the constant player movement. Salary escalation was another potential reason - the motivation isn't always competition, the Cup, etc. Even the larger influx of European players might mean that they don't relate to it as much. Before somebody jumps in to protest, this isn't a Don Cherry rant. Just throwing it out.

I'd still put Habs/Nords above it, but maybe that is just my hazy memory from living in Montreal as a kid.

No way. That rivalry could get intense, but it's not as if they were the two best in the league for the better part of a half decade. The Flame were all that stood in the way of total Oilers domination during the mid to late 80's.

 

[Canadiens Fan]

I'd still put Habs/Nords above it, but maybe that is just my hazy memory from living in Montreal as a kid.

Remember the nights when they would go from the Montreal/Quebec playoff game to the Edmonton/Calgary playoff game. Now that was a doubleheader.

Personally, the Montreal/Quebec rivalry was just as good and in fact had more aspects to the rivalry than Edmonton/Calgary. Habs/Nords was not only geographic, it was political, it was corporate (Labatt's/Molson's), it was personal between coaches (Bergeron vs. anybody), there was a lot of player movement (Lafleur playing for the Nords was the equivalent of Gretzky playing for the Flames) and even coach movement. And unlike Edmonton/Calgary every series they were always competitive and suspenseful.

1982 - went the full 5 games, winner scored in OT by Stastny at the Forum
1984 - went six games, concluding with the classic Vendredi Saint
1985 - went the full seven games, winner scored in OT Stastny at the Forum
1987 - went the full seven games, famous Alain Cote game
1993 - went six games, habs begin improbable cup ride

Either way, both rivalries to me epitomize hockey in the eighties.

 

[greatgazoo]

Remember the nights when they would go from the Montreal/Quebec playoff game to the Edmonton/Calgary playoff game. Now that was a doubleheader.

Personally, the Montreal/Quebec rivalry was just as good and in fact had more aspects to the rivalry than Edmonton/Calgary. Habs/Nords was not only geographic, it was political, it was corporate (Labatt's/Molson's), it was personal between coaches (Bergeron vs. anybody), there was a lot of player movement (Lafleur playing for the Nords was the equivalent of Gretzky playing for the Flames) and even coach movement. And unlike Edmonton/Calgary every series they were always competitive and suspenseful.

1982 - went the full 5 games, winner scored in OT by Stastny at the Forum
1984 - went six games, concluding with the classic Vendredi Saint
1985 - went the full seven games, winner scored in OT Stastny at the Forum
1987 - went the full seven games, famous Alain Cote game
1993 - went six games, habs begin improbable cup ride

Either way, both rivalries to me epitomize hockey in the eighties.

Oilers and Flames went the distance in a 7 game series several times...
1984
1986
1991

 

[Canadiens Fan]

Oilers and Flames went the distance in a 7 game series several times...
1984
1986
1991

But there was also a sweep I recall in 1988, my point, my fellow Cobourger, was that Montreal and Quebec never had a series that wasn't long and epic.

 

[Hoser]

Personally, the Montreal/Quebec rivalry was just as good and in fact had more aspects to the rivalry than Edmonton/Calgary.

Preposterous. Frankly you just don't get it.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Preposterous. Frankly you just don't get it.

He made a good point about the brewery rivalry, and that's something that Calgary/Edmonton certainly didn't have.

Since you're arguing that his claim of "more aspects" is preposterous, and since he's named at least one aspect in MON/QUE's favour, how about listing a few in EDM/CGY's favour?

If he truly "doesn't get it", then how about helping him "get it"?