Barclays paying Isles tens of millions each yr

[CREW99AW]

Plenty of fans criticized Wang for signing the Barclays lease , when his Coliseum lease still ran 1and 1/2 more seasons.

Not much info has leaked out, about Wang's new lease. The article below reports Barclay Center will pay Wang tens of millions each season.


http://islanderspointblank.com/isla...-per-year-to-relocate-to-brooklyn/#more-43369

Click to read more...

 

[krudmonk]

But....you can't put a price on obstructed views...

 

[Killion]

Plenty of fans criticized Wang for signing the Barclays lease , when his Coliseum lease still ran 1and 1/2 more seasons.....Not much info has leaked out, about Wang's new lease. The article below reports Barclay Center will pay Wang tens of millions each season.

http://islanderspointblank.com/isla...-per-year-to-relocate-to-brooklyn/#more-43369

Wow. Curiouser & curiouser. I surely did find it unusual & odd that Wang would go from owner/manager/developer to tenant and this explains much, to date merely rumored. The full details & amounts will eventually come out but sure enough on the surface it looks like he's seriously scored & negotiated himself one Hell of a deal.

 

[Fugu]

Lots of numbers!

http://stream.wsj.com/story/latest-headlines/SS-2-63399/SS-2-358599/


http://commercialobserver.com/2013/09/barclays-centers-first-year-by-the-numbers/


http://atlanticyardsreport.blogspot.com/2013/09/from-commercial-observer-barclays_25.html

 

[htpwn]

But....you can't put a price on obstructed views...

The fact that Barclay's may pay the Islanders tens of millions of dollars to convince them to move from the worst arena in the league tells you all you need to know about the unsuitability of it for NHL hockey.

 

[Ernie]

As the article points out, Barclay's has taken over the generation of much of the Islanders' revenue. This is likely just a guaranteed payout from that.

 

[Betamax*]

The fact that Barclay's may pay the Islanders tens of millions of dollars to convince them to move from the worst arena in the league tells you all you need to know about the unsuitability of it for NHL hockey.

What I don't get was why didn't they design the facility with also Hockey in mind if they felt they had a good chance of landing the Isles as a future tenant. I know their original plans for the arena was to make it hockey friendly, but cost-cutting resulted it in them turning it to only a basketball centric facility. Still, multi-purpose buildings have been recently built that are suitable for both hockey & basketball at probably less cost ... it seems to me that they spent a lot more on the form of the building over functionality when they decided on not giving the arena the flexibility to be a suitable dual purpose arena.

Anyone here that's more intimately familiar with the story is welcome to correct any inaccuracies I may have made in the above.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

What I don't get was why didn't they design the facility with also Hockey in mind if they felt they had a good chance of landing the Isles as a future tenant. I know their original plans for the arena was to make it hockey friendly, but cost-cutting resulted it in them turning it to only a basketball centric facility. Still, multi-purpose buildings have been recently built that are suitable for both hockey & basketball at probably less cost ... it seems to me that they spent a lot more on the form of the building over functionality when they decided on not giving the arena the flexibility to be a suitable dual purpose arena.

Anyone here that's more intimately familiar with the story is welcome to correct any inaccuracies I may have made in the above.

Things cost more in New York. Can't compare the cost of a building in 1 place to another.

 

[Betamax*]

Things cost more in New York. Can't compare the cost of a building in 1 place to another.

Can you get into more specifics. Of course land value would be substantially more costly in metropolitan New York than say Columbus, Ohio. Labour rates are probably higher too. But I'm talking about the design and cost of the building itself and the difference between designing it to be only basketball centric, to one that can accommodate both basketball and hockey at an acceptable level like they do with MSG and the Staples Center, stadiums in two major arenas in the two largest markets.

It seems to me that a lot of cost of the building was built on the facade or exterior design of the building. Hence my form versus function comment. Couldn't the building been more austere and more utilitarian but be more functional and ergo, offer more practical utility for hockey purposes?

 

[CREW99AW]

The fact that Barclay's may pay the Islanders tens of millions of dollars to convince them to move from the worst arena in the league tells you all you need to know about the unsuitability of it for NHL hockey.

Ridiculous.
Wang had zero reason to do Ratner and the Batclay's group favor, by signing a lease favorable to Barclays.

While Barclays was wooing the isles, Wang had the Nassau County Exec saying there was still time to get s deal reached Wang also had out of state buyers calling him.

 

[Killion]

What I don't get was why didn't they design the facility with also Hockey in mind if they felt they had a good chance of landing the Isles as a future tenant....Anyone here that's more intimately familiar with the story is welcome to correct any inaccuracies I may have made in the above.

Ya, sorry, not "intimately familiar" but interested and followed Wangs meanderings with Nassau County... pure speculation on my part but Id "guess" Barclays budget was trimmed to cut costs in not making it entirely hockey friendly as at that time Charles Wang was still going at it and likely gave no indication nor guarantees, and thats if they even got a bead on the guy at all, so they just went ahead assuming not likely. He's a strange man. Honestly, who knows? However, whatever he's received, whatever concessions etc, bound to come out & Isles fans will be expecting him to re-invest that money in the franchise, spending to the ceiling & building a winner. Theyve put up with a lot as it is & patience with both he and Garth Snow has been wearing thin for years. I know I for one will be very interested to learn what kind of a deal he's managed to finagle which when combined with the long-term & lucrative local broadcast contract he's got all combined makes for a rather valuable asset to say the least.

 

[CREW99AW]

What I don't get was why didn't they design the facility with also Hockey in mind if they felt they had a good chance of landing the Isles as a future tenant. I know their original plans for the arena was to make it hockey friendly, but cost-cutting resulted it in them turning it to only a basketball centric facility. Still, multi-purpose buildings have been recently built that are suitable for both hockey & basketball at probably less cost ... it seems to me that they spent a lot more on the form of the building over functionality when they decided on not giving the arena the flexibility to be a suitable dual purpose arena.

Anyone here that's more intimately familiar with the story is welcome to correct any inaccuracies I may have made in the above.

Ratner had no way of knowing that both Wang's proposals would be halted by partisan politics and the nimby crowd.

Ratner was having his own roadblocks in Brooklyn. From what Ratner and Wang have said, they were each trying to convince the other to come aboard his project.

Wang wanted the Nets in Nassau and Ratner wanted the Isles in Brooklyn.

 

[Betamax*]

Ya, sorry, not "intimately familiar" but interested and followed Wangs meanderings with Nassau County... pure speculation on my part but Id "guess" Barclays budget was trimmed to cut costs in not making it entirely hockey friendly as at that time Charles Wang was still going at it and likely gave no indication nor guarantees, and thats if they even got a bead on the guy at all, so they just went ahead assuming not likely. He's a strange man. Honestly, who knows? However, whatever he's received, whatever concessions etc, bound to come out & Isles fans will be expecting him to re-invest that money in the franchise, spending to the ceiling & building a winner. Theyve put up with a lot as it is & patience with both he and Garth Snow has been wearing thin for years. I know I for one will be very interested to learn what kind of a deal he's managed to finagle which when combined with the long-term & lucrative local broadcast contract he's got all combined makes for a rather valuable asset to say the least.

Ratner had no way of knowing that both Wang's proposals would be halted by partisan politics and the nimby crowd.

Ratner was having his own roadblocks in Brooklyn. From what Ratner and Wang have said, they were each trying to convince the other to come aboard his project.

Wang wanted the Nets in Nassau and Ratner wanted the Isles in Brooklyn.

Yeah thanks for both of your input on the politics involved during that time. The thing I am still trying to rationalize according to the wiki link:

re: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barclays_Center

Excerpt:

The original design of the arena, by architect Frank Gehry, would have the arena's roof feature a park open only to residents of the Atlantic Yards complex, ringed by an open-air running track that doubled as an ice skating rink in winter with panoramic vistas facing Manhattan year-round; but those roof plans were scrapped due to Gehry's design being projected to put the cost of the arena at $1 billion, which was seen as being too expensive. Gehry's design was eventually replaced in September 2009 by the current Becket/SHoP design, which puts the arena costs at $800 million, although the final cost of the entire project is currently projected to be $1 billion.[2]

A ~billion dollar arena that isn't really suitable for hockey, when existing designs for an arena prove that you can have good sight lines for both hockey and basketball.

The retrofitting to make it more "hockey friendly" after the fact seems to me like putting "Lipstick on a Pig" from a hockey usability perspective.

But I would say that "Pig" is damn nice looking though ...

And you know what, even if hockey wasn't pegged to be a primary tenant if they felt the Lighthouse Project by Charles Wang would get approved ... wouldn't they want to have some flexibility that other events like the Ice Capades or other events that would utilized a full ice rink, be something they would accommodate on a more optimal level?

 

[Mungman]

wouldn't they want to have some flexibility that other events like the Ice Capades or other events that would utilized a full ice rink, be something they would accommodate on a more optimal level?

A decline in popularity ensued, and the show went out of business around 1995

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_Capades

I know it was only an example, but due to the tie in with this exact claim being made as a reason for keeping the Yotes in PHX I just had to jump on it.

Maybe they can get the Idol shows the kids like, or Jr. High grads to fill dates?

 

[CREW99AW]

Yeah thanks for both of your input on the politics involved during that time. The thing I am still trying to rationalize according to the wiki link:

re: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barclays_Center
F
Excerpt:



A ~billion dollar arena that isn't really suitable for hockey, when existing designs for an arena prove that you can have good sight lines for both hockey and basketball.

The retrofitting to make it more "hockey friendly" after the fact seems to me like putting "Lipstick on a Pig" from a hockey usability perspective.

But I would say that "Pig" is damn nice looking though ...

And you know what, even if hockey wasn't pegged to be a primary tenant if they felt the Lighthouse Project by Charles Wang would get approved ... wouldn't they want to have some flexibility that other events like the Ice Capades or other events that would utilized a full ice rink, be something they would accommodate on a more optimal level?

Below is a link to Barclays scheduled events, which include Disney on Ice, concerts, college basketball games and nba games.

http://www.barclayscenter.com/events

 

[Betamax*]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_Capades

I know it was only an example, but due to the tie in with this exact claim being made as a reason for keeping the Yotes in PHX I just had to jump on it.

Maybe they can get the Idol shows the kids like, or Jr. High grads to fill dates?

Below is a link to Barclays scheduled events, which include Disney on Ice, concerts, college basketball games and nba games.

http://www.barclayscenter.com/events

Yeah thanks for looking things up. Whether it be a resurrected Ice Capades ... or the Professional Figure Skating Events that occur and especially after the Winter Olympics where their "amateur" athletes turn pro and they have those skating exhibitions, the fact that the sight lines are sub-optimal for a ice rink configuration would annoy the Hell out of me if I was a NYI fan or anyone who attends hockey games live there (even with the knowledge that the rink is a lot better than what they currently play in).

 

[CREW99AW]

Point Blank has a new article up, with more info about the Brooklyn lease.

Like the isles local cable deal, the lease payments rise a slight amount each season. One big difference is a stipulation in the Barclay lease, that a payment amount can be reduced . What condition would cause Wang's payment to be reduced?

I am just guessing, but based on Yormark and Wang's comments and Barclays getting isles tix and merchadise sales, I think Wang has probably had to agree to have payroll at a certain level and ice a competitive product. Isles payroll is a league low $49m+.


http://islanderspointblank.com/excl...rena-deal-risk-isles-get-financial-certainty/

 

[LadyStanley]

From the WSJ article (finally completed my registration so I can read it):

Barclays had $19mm for first nine months of operational income (extrapolating $25mm for year, compared to $79mm projected in bond issue, and less than the $29mm annual debt service cost).

But attracting big acts can put pressure on margins. Music executives and analysts say that the Barclays Center’s high expenses likely come in part from generous deals to woo big names, either by offering low rent or by guaranteeing a performer a high portion of ticket sales.

Forest City executives say the arena has been aggressive in cutting deals with big stars in some instances. They said high expenses also stemmed from over-staffing events and adding services like shuttle buses to nearby neighborhoods—services that are slated to be cut back or eliminated now that executives have a better sense of how to run the arena.

Officials believe they can cut costs by 15%.

So, hopefully that learning curve means better returns for the arena, but tight margins, especially with the lure of MSG, for concerts will be an ongoing concern, I think.

 

[htpwn]

Ridiculous.
Wang had zero reason to do Ratner and the Batclay's group favor, by signing a lease favorable to Barclays.

While Barclays was wooing the isles, Wang had the Nassau County Exec saying there was still time to get s deal reached Wang also had out of state buyers calling him.

I don't believe you've refuted my point.

 

[CREW99AW]

I don't believe you've refuted my point.

You did not make a point, [mod].

Barclays co-owner Ratner, says he and Wang are friends who when they would meet, the last several yrs, would try to convince the other to join his development project.

Wang and Ratner were at one point competing, each trying to buy the NJ Nets. Ratner's group ended up buying the team.

Several.press sources, Ratner , Bettman and Wang have all said Wang had offers to buy the isles and move them out of NY.

You act as if Wang had no other options for the isles and Ratner had plenty other options for a 2nd pro team to move into Barclays.

 

[htpwn]

You did not make a point, [mod].

Barclays co-owner Ratner, says he and Wang are friends who when they would meet, the last several yrs, would try to convince the other to join his development project.

Wang and Ratner were at one point competing, each trying to buy the NJ Nets. Ratner's group ended up buying the team.

Several.press sources, Ratner , Bettman and Wang have all said Wang had offers to buy the isles and move them out of NY.

You act as if Wang had no other options for the isles and Ratner had plenty other options for a 2nd pro team to move into Barclays.

We're talking about an arena here, not even a team. No need to get personal.

I don't doubt that Wang and Ratner know each other, have discussed business with each other, or are even friends.

It also doesn't surprise me that Wang was contacted by buyers looking to move the team.

I just question whether this lease gets signed, or if the lease is signed as quick as it was (now, as opposed to when the lease with Nassau County expires), if the Ratner Group doesn't offer such an advantageous lease. The Arena is the furthest thing from an ideal venue for NHL Hockey.

 

[CREW99AW]

We're talking about an arena here, not even a team. No need to get personal.

I don't doubt that Wang and Ratner know each other, have discussed business with each other, or are even friends.

It also doesn't surprise me that Wang was contacted by buyers looking to move the team.

I just question whether this lease gets signed, or if the lease is signed as quick as it was (now, as opposed to when the lease with Nassau County expires), if the Ratner Group doesn't offer such an advantageous lease. The Arena is the furthest thing from an ideal venue for NHL Hockey.

MOD

Ratner and Wang had tried several times the last few yrs, to convince the other to come play in 'his' arena'. Each wanted a 2nd tenant.

Why would Wang, with other options besides Barclays, sign a Barclays deal that greatly benefitted the Barclays group?

 

[htpwn]

MOD

Ratner and Wang had tried several times the last few yrs, to convince the other to come play in 'his' arena'. Each wanted a 2nd tenant.

Why would Wang, with other options besides Barclays, sign a Barclays deal that greatly benefitted the Barclays group?

We seem to be on a different page here.

Let me try to rephrase the narrative:

The question I'm putting forward is not why Wang would want to sign a lease that is in his best interests, but why Barclay's felt compelled to offer a sweet heart deal and whether that played any role in the Islanders trying to get out of Nassau earlier than they otherwise would.

Wang has already stated his preference to stay on Long Island, he had the opportunity (IIRC) to look into the Barclay's opportunity back in 2008 (?), and he was still publicly talking new arena options (Queens and otherwise) in the weeks and months leading up to the lease being signed.

 

[Jester9881]

We're talking about an arena here, not even a team. No need to get personal.

I don't doubt that Wang and Ratner know each other, have discussed business with each other, or are even friends.

It also doesn't surprise me that Wang was contacted by buyers looking to move the team.

I just question whether this lease gets signed, or if the lease is signed as quick as it was (now, as opposed to when the lease with Nassau County expires), if the Ratner Group doesn't offer such an advantageous lease. The Arena is the furthest thing from an ideal venue for NHL Hockey.

I think in Wangs mind, he had a chance to develop that land and keep the Islanders in Nassau, right up until the point where construction or overhaul of the arena was still feasible prior to the 2015 season. If Nassau turned around and told Wang he could build his mini city a day after he signed, there wouldn't have been enough time to get it done anyway.

This is just my opinion, I have nothing to back this up. He did say it would take over two years to refurbish/rebuild NVMC though, and we were past that point when the deal with Brooklyn was made.

 

[htpwn]

I think in Wangs mind, he had a chance to develop that land and keep the Islanders in Nassau, right up until the point where construction or overhaul of the arena was still feasible prior to the 2015 season. If Nassau turned around and told Wang he could build his mini city a day after he signed, there wouldn't have been enough time to get it done anyway.

This is just my opinion, I have nothing to back this up. He did say it would take over two years to refurbish/rebuild NVMC though, and we were past that point when the deal with Brooklyn was made.

Ah, okay. Makes some sense.