Balsillie/Phoenix part V

[King_Stannis]

And look what the Reinsdorf has done w/o Jordan.

For as much as Jordan ridiculed Krause, I'll bet he has a whole new appreciation for him now that he has failed miserably on the management/ownership side of things.

 

[King_Stannis]

Evil Doctor and Frank Mackey,
The threat to the Sabres has been clearly explicated earlier in this thread (around page 20, if I recall. The long and short, 15 - 20% of their ticket base comes from Southern Ontario.

Exactly. I also love how some think that a bunch of invading fans coming down from Hamilton twice a year is the key to long term success for the Sabres if a team goes there.

 

[KevFu]

Being a White Sox fan and Bulls fan, Reinsdorf gave us 6 NBA titles and 1 WS title but the a-hole still tried to move the White Sox to St Pete unless the state of Illinois got on it's knees, screwed Carlton Fisk, gave us the dreaded white flag trade and gave us Jerry Krause.

Quiet man? Yes , beacause he is in the back room negotiating the best way to stab the fans in the back.

You forgot the part where he killed the 1994 World Series and then turned around and signed Albert Belle for $11 million per year, when the previous high contract was $8 mil per year.

 

[bcrt2000]

Evil Doctor and Frank Mackey,
The threat to the Sabres has been clearly explicated earlier in this thread (around page 20, if I recall. The long and short, 15 - 20% of their ticket base comes from Southern Ontario.

Out of that 15-20% I'd wager 80% of them come from Niagara Falls.

 

[Big Country]

King_Stannis
Exactly so. Like three extra home games with a new rival makes up for a 15% loss of revenue through the rest of the year. I hope some of these people don't own a business.

 

[BigFatCat999]

Mod: deleted.

Now back to the proceedings. IF the FA period is moved, how will it effect FA's like Steve Sullivan who turn 35 just after the normal FA period of July 1st Sully becomes 35 on the 6th and his contract becomes even more immovable.

 

[Twilight]

If a team thats currently in Western US/Canada moved East we'd probably either see it stay in it's current division as punishment for moving to the East, or the 2 conference system would be abolished in favour of a 6 division format (4 eastern divisions, 2 central/western) and the top 16 teams would make the playoffs.

Punishment doesn't seem fair to the other teams in the division who will have to travel to Hamilton for the away games. So the only option would be realignment.

And if Balsilly expects to get this team before the start of this season that's a HUGE change to the entire NHL that needs to be made literally overnight.

 

[David_99]

Punishment doesn't seem fair to the other teams in the division who will have to travel to Hamilton for the away games. So the only option would be realignment.

And if Balsilly expects to get this team before the start of this season that's a HUGE change to the entire NHL that needs to be made literally overnight.

You could always move Florida and Atlanta to Seattle and Portland. I'm suprised no one has brought this up before.

 

[Hale Dawerchuk]

Here's an idea for an "amicable" resolution:

JB buys team, pays something of a relocation fee, and gives Glendale a minor equity stake, thereby guaranteeing a future revenue stream to offset their losses.

(I don't know enough about it to spout figures or percents, but if someone is willing to flesh this out or shoot it down, be my guest... I'm just blue-skying here.)

 

[Fugu]

King_Stannis
Exactly so. Like three extra home games with a new rival makes up for a 15% loss of revenue through the rest of the year. I hope some of these people don't own a business.

10-20% of fans (notice that 20 is double ten, but that was the range we got from the Sabres...).... doesn't equate to 15% of revenues.

 

[Evil Doctor]

So... After everything that has been said today, what are the odds that the team will end up in Hamilton?

Better than what they were at the start of the day, but like the ratings for Coyotes hockey in Arizona, with numbers so low to begin with any improvement, no matter how small, is considered a victory.

 

[KevFu]

Exactly. I also love how some think that a bunch of invading fans coming down from Hamilton twice a year is the key to long term success for the Sabres if a team goes there.

Mathematically it can't. I've illustrated this a number of times in these five threads.

It's circular logic:
Oh, they have plenty of fans so other fans not buying tickets will buy more (they draw well, but not total sellouts nightly. Even 95% isn't 100% with a waiting list)

The rivalry games with Hamilton will sell out, replacing everyone who leaves to follow Hamilton (No, because the number of people leaving across the 41-game season can't fit into the arena for three games. And if only a very small amount of people do leave, there are very few available seats for visiting Hamilton fans in those three games. The actual number of total tickets sold they can "afford" to lose, with sellouts against Hamilton making up the difference is less than 0.08% of their total season tickets sold).

Hamilton means Buffalo loses money. Period. The only question is "can the team lose that money and still survive?"

 

[BogsDiamond]

Evil Doctor and Frank Mackey,
The threat to the Sabres has been clearly explicated earlier in this thread (around page 20, if I recall. The long and short, 15 - 20% of their ticket base comes from Southern Ontario.

But who's to say that 15-20% jumps ship to support Hamilton?

Ballsillie's not going to hand out $20 tickets like they do in Buffalo. His ticket prices will be comparable to Toronto's. And I believe the ticket demand will also be through the roof. They'll probably get 15,000 seasons ticket holders with many more on the waiting list.

I think the impact on the Sabres would be minimal. And if Hamilton were relocated into the Eastern conference, it would help ticket sales even more with another close rival to wage war with.

 

[Bittco]

i wonder how amicable sides would be to a solution to put the team in winnipeg? i mean a few things would have to happen but its possible- if this 'least cost' test the judge is talking about includes a potential 'revenue loss' for the leafs and sabres would it be possible that the parties could agree to this 3rd solution which would get the team fans and not interfere with any current market?

 

[Chileiceman]

I don't think that all or even most Ontario Sabre fans will just jump ship and become Hamilton fans. It's called loyalty.

 

[Big Country]

Fugu,
Quite so. I probably should have said "ticket revenue."

 

[Evil Doctor]

Hamilton is also less than an hour away from Toronto.

Sure if you want to risk the chance of your car being impounded. My best time (downtown Hamilton to downtown Toronto (essentially Copps to ACC)) was 42 minutes, pre-rush hour, very early in the morning. And I speed....

 

[Stars99Lobo37]

And I speed....

Who doesn't these days?

Has the hearing started back up yet?

 

[Bittco]

Sure if you want to risk the chance of your car being impounded. My best time (downtown Hamilton to downtown Toronto (essentially Copps to ACC)) was 42 minutes, pre-rush hour, very early in the morning. And I speed....

whats hamilton to buffalo? if im not mistaken isnt that about an hour also? (w/o border issues)

 

[Big Country]

But who's to say that 15-20% jumps ship to support Hamilton?

Ballsillie's not going to hand out $20 tickets like they do in Buffalo. His ticket prices will be comparable to Toronto's. And I believe the ticket demand will also be through the roof. They'll probably get 15,000 seasons ticket holders with many more on the waiting list.

I think the impact on the Sabres would be minimal. And if Hamilton were relocated into the Eastern conference, it would help ticket sales even more with another close rival to wage war with.

Again, please see the previous posts on this thread. It's all been covered in exquisite detail.

 

[MoreOrr]

i wonder how amicable sides would be to a solution to put the team in winnipeg? i mean a few things would have to happen but its possible- if this 'least cost' test the judge is talking about includes a potential 'revenue loss' for the leafs and sabres would it be possible that the parties could agree to this 3rd solution which would get the team fans and not interfere with any current market?

That option would have no appeal to Balsillie. As for the League, it would be better than being forced into a legal confrontation between all parties and MLSE.

One thing though, if somehow that would happen and Winnipeg would end up getting the Coyotes/Jets back as a result of this... Winnipegers better give Balsillie a big Thanks for creating the circumstances that caused it to happen.

 

[Brodie]

I don't think that all or even most Ontario Sabre fans will just jump ship and become Hamilton fans. It's called loyalty.

No, no, no. No Ontario Sabres fans have any loyalty. Almost 40 years of history? Pfft, eff that, there's another team the same distance away! Sabres fans in Southern Ontario already have another team in the region, they continue to choose crossing an international border instead of supporting the Leafs.

I think what you'll see, especially if they stay in the west, is a lot of fans who cheer for both teams as long as they aren't playing each other.

 

[BigFatCat999]

The problem for season ticket holders for Buffalo will be a problem. What about the walk ups. There are LOTS and LOTS of walk ups for games and what is the percentage of Canadians for that? Take the ticket base:

15K - 10% is 1,500 seats. That leaves walk ups of 3,500. Let's take away 15% of that 525.

So for a conservative estimate, that's 2,000 seats a game which could be bought but will be at a lower price. it's basic economic facts more competition means lower prices. So let's say 1,750 a game of empty seats at 2008/2009 prices times 35. We'll give 6 games to Hamilton and those will be sold out....we hope. 61,250 seats that are unsold a year. Average cost per seat $45. Total ticket monies lost: $2,756,250 a year.

 

[Snoil11]

Please move on to part 6 of the Phoenix/Balsille saga.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=649358