Balsillie/Phoenix part III
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Jesus Christ Horburn
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- Aug 22, 2008
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Anyone know when the hearing is tomorrow?
Will we know by the end of the day whether Balsillie can and will move the team to Hamilton, or are there going to be further dates in court before that can be determined?
Will we know by the end of the day whether Balsillie can and will move the team to Hamilton, or are there going to be further dates in court before that can be determined?
LadyStanley
Registered User
BOH mod mouser plans to attend the hearing, and report on proceedings (perhaps from courtroom).
All we *may* know tomorrow is who controls the team (NHL or Moyes).
If the NHL is in control, the bankruptcy filing is kinda null and void.
LadyStanley
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...t/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20090518.wsptbettman0518
Someone's reading/hijacking NHL internal emails?
Someone's reading/hijacking NHL internal emails?
Jesus Christ Horburn
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- Aug 22, 2008
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I wonder if there's any chance of that still coming true?
At this point, who in their right mind is going to buy the Coyotes with the intention of keeping them in Phoenix, especially after all the millions that Moyes lost since buying the team in 2001 have now become public.
Clearly the NHL (or at least Bettman) seems to be on board with the idea of relocating them to Winnipeg, meaning it would be a much easier course of action than what Balsillie is trying to do with Hamilton. This way Bettman still "makes it seven" and gets at least part of the Canadian market back on his side.
It'll be an interesting day tomorrow.
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TaketheCannoli
RIP
It was filed with the court by the League as a part of the case.
If we read the email:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/v5/content/pdf/bettman.pdf
I think it shows a number of things:
Bettman discussed that Moyes did not have the right to discuss moving the team with anyone, and his attorney Scudder said that he understood that. Additionally, it shows Bettman was keeping Moyes up to date on the Reinsdorf situation. Anyone who claims Bettman is taking out any anti-Canadian anger needs to read the e-mail; Upon reading the email, it demonstrates that in my opinion, Moyes was clearly involved in a conspiracy with Balsillie.
mouser
Business of Hockey
Hearing is at 1:30PM Arizona time.
Will everything be decided completely then? Unknown. The first and key issue is whether Moyes or the NHL is in control of the team. That will have repercussions on all the other court motions.
Even if all the possible rulings were to go in Balsillie's favor tomorrow, it would open up an auction process where another prospective ownership group could attempt to outbid Balsillie and presumably move the team wherever they wanted in the GTA or otherwise.
TaketheCannoli
RIP
Mouser, you don't really think the court will rule on the anti-trust portion tomorrow, do you? Unless the court makes that ruling, moving the team without league agreement is not on the table.
bodybreak
Whiteshell Wild
- Jul 11, 2006
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Huge news for Winnipeg. Saturday morning's story in the Globe and Mail (which was sent to many, many more media outlets via the Canadian Press) was worded to the effect that IF the Coyotes were to move to CANADA, Winnipeg would be preferred over Hamilton. It turns out the league would actually put Winnipeg ahead of any potential markets in America, too.
mouser
Business of Hockey
The anti-trust suit is a separate prong of attack.
Moyes/Balsillie are still asking the bankruptcy court to force the NHL to accept ownership change & relocation independent of how the anti-trust action plays out.
In my opinion it's doubtful a bankruptcy court would decide it has that authority, but then that's just my opinion.
MsMeow
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- Nov 4, 2005
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This email looks like it's a pre-emptive strike because he knew Balsillie was circling. Why would he mention Winnipeg when Vegas and Kansas City have been mentioned so many times? He knows that if anyone is going to put a team in Southern Ontario it will be Balsillie and that there would be a very real likelihood of the courts being involved so this document could make it look like Winnipeg is an option. Besides that, how many other emails regarding this sale went between he and Daly that he doesn't want us to know about?
TaketheCannoli
RIP
It's very simple. Moyes counsel can request all documents pertaining to any discussions of the sale or movement of the Coyotes. If the league didn't deliver all of them, they could face court sanctions.
Federal Rules of Civil Procedure would include emails (all documents) within the League's defined retention policy. Anything that involves a contract would I believe need to be retained for the life of the contract, plus the retention period. What I've seen in correspondence of this type is a typical retention period of somewhere between 3 and 7 years.
So again I ask, what happened to all the Bettman hates Canada posters? he clearly shows he prefers having a team there, whenever that should happen..
Vegas, like the Southern Ontario option, represents a $300+ million expansion fee. The only time talk of Vegas has come up is with expansion in mind, and figures of $300-400 million have been floated. Furthermore, I think Bruckheimer is part of a group that was planning on building an arena to house the new team. I doubt he'd want to house it in a competing venue in the meantime.
I think it's safe to say that it's not so much about Canada, but more about territorial rights, indemnity fees and expansion fees. If you have to move a team, you have to find a situation that is the most favorable to all the other 29 owners... In a perfect world, the BOG would want a location that isn't reliant on revenue sharing for survival, has an NHL ready arena, and doesn't encroach on another team's territory-- or the money that would come from an expansion fee.
MsMeow
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- Nov 4, 2005
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I totally think he has no love for Canada. He showed that by never going to the ends of the earth to save the Nords or Jets like he's done for Phoenix, Nashville and Pittsburgh. The fun part is watching it all unravel in Phoenix and whatever other sunbelt team that's next.
Jake16
Registered User
What are you talking about? ....the Bettman e-mail released today specifically says if the Coyotes move "it should first be offered to Winnipeg." That doesn't sound like someone who's anti-Canada or anti-Winnipeg to me.
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same can be said for Quebec province NOT CARING about whether they had a competitor to the Canadiens
This is possibly just an uninformed comment, but the more I think about this whole situation of Balsillie trying to bring a team to the Hamilton area, the more I believe that it's not so much anti-Balsillie that comes into play, though that may be a part of it, but rather it's the strong arm of the MLSE working behind the scenes to prevent another team from being established in the area, at least not a team that they don't have some involvement with (whether that's possible at all).
Now with all the info coming out that Winnipeg could be considered if the Coyotes have to be moved, I just don't see how Winnipeg can be seen as being any more attractive a location than the Hamilton area. I'm not putting Winnipeg down, but if the League is considering financial practicality, I just don't see the sense of fighting hard against Hamilton, but saying ok to Winnipeg (if someone comes forward who can make Winnipeg work).
Oh sure, I've read talk about getting expansion fees rather than just having a team bought and relocated, but how does that make any difference whether it's Hamilton or Winnipeg?
And of course there are the arenas, but neither the Copps nor the MTS is the ideal situation. Is one so much worse than the other? At least in the Hamilton case, we can imagine that a new arena would probably be built in the area sometime in the not too distant future. I don't think that's the case in Winnipeg.
So, would the League stab themselves in their feet just for the sake of Balsillie's personality, or is there something more here? I'm feeling sure that the primary force in play against Hamilton is the MLSE.
Now, after writing that, someone is quickly going to post a reply that shows I'm wrong... right?
Now with all the info coming out that Winnipeg could be considered if the Coyotes have to be moved, I just don't see how Winnipeg can be seen as being any more attractive a location than the Hamilton area. I'm not putting Winnipeg down, but if the League is considering financial practicality, I just don't see the sense of fighting hard against Hamilton, but saying ok to Winnipeg (if someone comes forward who can make Winnipeg work).
Oh sure, I've read talk about getting expansion fees rather than just having a team bought and relocated, but how does that make any difference whether it's Hamilton or Winnipeg?
And of course there are the arenas, but neither the Copps nor the MTS is the ideal situation. Is one so much worse than the other? At least in the Hamilton case, we can imagine that a new arena would probably be built in the area sometime in the not too distant future. I don't think that's the case in Winnipeg.
So, would the League stab themselves in their feet just for the sake of Balsillie's personality, or is there something more here? I'm feeling sure that the primary force in play against Hamilton is the MLSE.
Now, after writing that, someone is quickly going to post a reply that shows I'm wrong... right?
LadyStanley
Registered User
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2009/05/18/daily7.html
Moyes arguing that a loan does not control take.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=279163
CP previewing hearing in bankruptcy court.
Moyes arguing that a loan does not control take.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=279163
CP previewing hearing in bankruptcy court.
kdb209
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- Jan 26, 2005
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Another bizjournals piece that I don't think has been posted here yet.
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2009/05/11/daily73.html
There's certainly something to it. If I recall correctly the revenue and cost projections put forth by the Chipman group, revenue sharing was included in the equation. There had been concern at what a sustainable avg ticket price would be in Winnipeg; whereas in Hamilton/Kitchener, people are accustomed to Leafs prices and would view something that was $20-30 lower per ticket a relative bargain. That number, by the way, would still be at or above the NHL avg price per ticket. I don't know that Balsillie is counting on revenue sharing. Wasn't there some talk during the Nashville offer he put forth that he wouldn't need/want revenue sharing?
Perhaps this is oversimplification, but the NHL has loaned Moyes ~$30 million, and now claims that they can dispense with the asset as they see fit. Moyes has invested/spent/lost some $300 million and hopes to get ~30 cents on the dollar back with JB's offer. The NHL/Reinsdorf deal would give him 9 cents on the dollar back....
I guess I see a huge gulf between a $30 million loan and, in essence, ownership of a franchise that has - by virtue of two offers - a far greater value (one of which is $100 million greater than the other).
- Feb 27, 2002
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i dont know about this Bettman hates Canada stuff ... as a well noted anti owner person during the lockout, i think Bettman is brilliant at his job and i really dont see how he would leave this large a loophole open.
if the NHL loaned Moyes money, i am sure GB had all his ducks in a row, i wouldn bet against him.
if the NHL loaned Moyes money, i am sure GB had all his ducks in a row, i wouldn bet against him.
What about Moyes though? 40+ years in Glendale... he's a local guy, he has spent $300 million thus far, and now he simply cannot keep the team afloat. Is it okay to ask him to walk away because the league loaned him $30 million? I'm just asking.
To me that email makes it look like there are no real, legitimate, offers for the team, and that Bettman at some point does think that relocation will be the only solution. If Balsille tried to strike this deal and move the team to Winnipeg, I bet the NHL would let it happen. He says "we are running out of time" and "no one is interested in funding $40 million in losses." The GIANT elephant in the room is the Goldwater Institute who will challenge any subsidy Glendale puts forward which will make the Reinsdorf deal not work, which in turn could allow the league to either disband or put them into bankruptcy. There is only one ending to this story and it will be with the Coyotes dead. It is just a mtter of when and who will pull the trigger.
Also its proof to all of the blind Coyotes fans that have been arguing all year that everything will be ok, that actually it was as bad as Shoalts and the G&M said it was all along. How you like them apples?
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