Speculation: Bad teams eventually develop a Trap Style Game...

[ottomaddox]

Can you see Keefe going to this at some point?

I know this team has skill. I know that this might not excite fans. I just know that this team has no speed. Their forwards seem to be extremely off when it comes to turnovers and zone entries. They might have to lay back at this point. Muzzin is slow and banged up, Tavares seems to be slow, Rielly needs to simplify his game, and same goes for Marner.

Could a trap at least ensure they don't get beat in the speed game, or that there's enough bodies in the D-zone to stop opposing teams (with speed)?

Click to read more...

 

[notDatsyuk]

No. It's a lot harder to build a good defensive system than to allow forwards to just freewheel.

A good defensive system requires hard-working, dedicated team players throughout the lineup. Leafs would pretty much have to start from scratch, to build a team of players like Hyman, Komarov, Martin, Point, Marchand, Bergevin, and so on.

 

[cannucky]

No. It's a lot harder to build a good defensive system than to allow forwards to just freewheel.

A good defensive system requires hard-working, dedicated team players throughout the lineup. Leafs would pretty much have to start from scratch, to build a team of players like Hyman, Komarov, Martin, Point, Marchand, Bergevin, and so on.

Which is exactly what Lou built here and Babcock was forcing down the throats of the players , then low and behold we had an all time record breaking season playing that way before the undermining started . I forget are they spiraling clockwise or counter clockwise down the North American toilet under Dubass ?

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Can you see Keefe going to this at some point?

I know this team has skill. I know that this might not excite fans. I just know that this team has no speed. Their forwards seem to be extremely off when it comes to turnovers and zone entries. They might have to lay back at this point. Muzzin is slow and banged up, Tavares seems to be slow, Rielly needs to simplify his game, and same goes for Marner.

Not with this group...they like to freewheel way too much for that...
Could a trap at least ensure they don't get beat in the speed game, or that there's enough bodies in the D-zone to stop opposing teams (with speed)?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Can you see Keefe going to this at some point?

I know this team has skill. I know that this might not excite fans. I just know that this team has no speed. Their forwards seem to be extremely off when it comes to turnovers and zone entries. They might have to lay back at this point. Muzzin is slow and banged up, Tavares seems to be slow, Rielly needs to simplify his game, and same goes for Marner.

Could a trap at least ensure they don't get beat in the speed game, or that there's enough bodies in the D-zone to stop opposing teams (with speed)?

A major reason why the Leafs are getting beat has nothing to do with speed. We are a very aggressive offensive team that likes to deploy pinches and activating the defense. If that doesn't work out, then it leads to a lot of odd man chances the other way.

As many people know, not a lot of things were working the past two games especially.

When we are on, however, the other team is hemmed in and bleeding chances, which we have seen this year as well.

We need to work on executing basic plays. A lot of passes are off, shots missing the net, and wrong decisions being made on simple plays. There are a few things that could be coached out, and I still think something should be done with Marner being taken off of (at least the top) PP, but a lot of this is going to be the players figuring things out on their own for once.

 

[Havoc]

Which is exactly what Lou built here and Babcock was forcing down the throats of the players , then low and behold we had an all time record breaking season playing that way before the undermining started . I forget are they spiraling clockwise or counter clockwise down the North American toilet under Dubass ?

How does signing Marleau prove Lou built a trap system? What draft picks did Lou leave behind for us to suggest this as well? Leafs and Islanders are the exact same. The parts that carry the team were already there unless we are seriously going to suggest drafting Matthews requires savvy work.

If he wanted to build a trap system he had 11 mil + a couple second round picks to work with. He didn't do jack to improve the team defence until some past their prime trade deadline acquisitions.

 

[Pookie]

The reality is that ALL teams play a trap at some point in the game.

Sometimes, you are protecting a lead. Sometimes, you have a line mismatch. Sometimes, you just need a breather. Sometimes you switch it up between periods. Or between games in a series.

The idea that a team adopts 1 system, game in and game out, period in and period out... and expects a $1M rookie to execute it to the same level as an $11M veteran is really a disservice to the game.

The game is fluid. It’s not auto-play.

If we can’t play a trap yet... not wonder we are losing. I also expect us to know how to beat a trap. How to dump and chase. How to carry forward and maintain possession, how to use a torpedo. Etc. Etc.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

The reality is that ALL teams play a trap at some point in the game.

Sometimes, you are protecting a lead. Sometimes, you have a line mismatch. Sometimes, you just need a breather. Sometimes you switch it up between periods. Or between games in a series.

The idea that a team adopts 1 system, game in and game out, period in and period out... and expects a $1M rookie to execute it to the same level as an $11M veteran is really a disservice to the game.

The game is fluid. It’s not auto-play.

If we can’t play a trap yet... not wonder we are losing. I also expect us to know how to beat a trap. How to dump and chase. How to carry forward and maintain possession, how to use a torpedo. Etc. Etc.

Doesn't matter how much talent you have. This stuff falls on the coach 100%. People are delusional if they think Keefe isn't a problem. Extending Keefe might be what costs Dubas his job in the end.

 

[ottomaddox]

The reality is that ALL teams play a trap at some point in the game.

Sometimes, you are protecting a lead. Sometimes, you have a line mismatch. Sometimes, you just need a breather. Sometimes you switch it up between periods. Or between games in a series.

The idea that a team adopts 1 system, game in and game out, period in and period out... and expects a $1M rookie to execute it to the same level as an $11M veteran is really a disservice to the game.

The game is fluid. It’s not auto-play.

If we can’t play a trap yet... not wonder we are losing. I also expect us to know how to beat a trap. How to dump and chase. How to carry forward and maintain possession, how to use a torpedo. Etc. Etc.

I'm not going to disagree. I just think that for whatever reason the current system is working against TOR. Also hard to believe that Keefe can micro-manage all that in a game.

Also TOR looks very slow out there.

 

[m1ker]

A major reason why the Leafs are getting beat has nothing to do with speed. We are a very aggressive offensive team that likes to deploy pinches and activating the defense. If that doesn't work out, then it leads to a lot of odd man chances the other way.

As many people know, not a lot of things were working the past two games especially.

When we are on, however, the other team is hemmed in and bleeding chances, which we have seen this year as well.

We need to work on executing basic plays. A lot of passes are off, shots missing the net, and wrong decisions being made on simple plays. There are a few things that could be coached out, and I still think something should be done with Marner being taken off of (at least the top) PP, but a lot of this is going to be the players figuring things out on their own for once.

A major reason is, our team brings it in, curls back and passes to the defence joining the rush 99% of the time. It’s so easy to predict.

Watch when Keefe stacks the top line and Nylander dumps it down low, Matthews, and Marner look lost

 

[Stephen]

Not to sound flip but I think the Leafs are succeeding at trapping themselves all over the ice.

When they pinch in the offensive zone I feel like whatever advantage they get at overloading the other team also comes at the cost of bad unpredictable spacing. It kills open ice and the open man and clumps everyone together in strange places and makes them susceptible for a counter rush.

When they press the puck possession angle it forces themselves into a retreat or circle in easy predictable patterns whether circling the perimeter of the offensive zone which builds bodies in the slot that kills their spacing and clogs all passing lanes. Or it forces them into a retreat where they allow the opponent blueline to be clogged with players from both teams, sometimes skating the puck back into danger areas for a turnover.

I’m not a coach but it’s so stale it’s like watching a white board game after game.

 

[Golden_Jet]

All teams trap at one point or another during a game, whether it be protecting a lead late in a game, or when a team is breaking out, and you want to try and break it up in the neutral zone.

 

[29Potvin]

I'm not going to disagree. I just think that for whatever reason the current system is working against TOR. Also hard to believe that Keefe can micro-manage all that in a game.

Also TOR looks very slow out there.

When you are not trying/give up on plays you tend to look slow.. the only thing that gives me any hope for this team is that unlike the last 3 games against the Habs, I don't feel our bottom six have been that bad. If we get the big guns going and trade Holl we will be a much better team.

 

[The Iceman]

Which is exactly what Lou built here and Babcock was forcing down the throats of the players , then low and behold we had an all time record breaking season playing that way before the undermining started . I forget are they spiraling clockwise or counter clockwise down the North American toilet under Dubass ?

OK, I will bite.
What all time records did I miss, and what season are you referencing?

 

[bbgobie]

Hey, the team started ignoring defensive play under the coaching of Babcock. You telling me the players loved Lou so much they couldn't play D because he was upset a younger guy was preferred to run the team and he couldn't hold his pride to help that younger guy succeed? I get why people are upset at Dubas, but the earth isn't flat because he took over.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Can you see Keefe going to this at some point?

I know this team has skill. I know that this might not excite fans. I just know that this team has no speed. Their forwards seem to be extremely off when it comes to turnovers and zone entries. They might have to lay back at this point. Muzzin is slow and banged up, Tavares seems to be slow, Rielly needs to simplify his game, and same goes for Marner.

Could a trap at least ensure they don't get beat in the speed game, or that there's enough bodies in the D-zone to stop opposing teams (with speed)?

It is probably da only way to get wins for a coach with this team BUT I don't think these players will do what it takes to to play 5 men low prevent shot type game .. it is a very tough way to get wins .. there is too much sacrifice required to play that game .. defenders will back out of blue ice .. wingers will slide away from shooting lanes .. centres won't take da hits to make da plays .. none of these guys ever learned how to get a win da hard way

 

[The Iceman]

Hey, the team started ignoring defensive play under the coaching of Babcock. You telling me the players loved Lou so much they couldn't play D because he was upset a younger guy was preferred to run the team and he couldn't hold his pride to help that younger guy succeed? I get why people are upset at Dubas, but the earth isn't flat because he took over.

And don't forget when Lou was hired it was with a succession plan in place that he would step back when he did.

 

[mydnyte]

Can you see Keefe going to this at some point?

I know this team has skill. I know that this might not excite fans. I just know that this team has no speed. Their forwards seem to be extremely off when it comes to turnovers and zone entries. They might have to lay back at this point. Muzzin is slow and banged up, Tavares seems to be slow, Rielly needs to simplify his game, and same goes for Marner.

Could a trap at least ensure they don't get beat in the speed game, or that there's enough bodies in the D-zone to stop opposing teams (with speed)?

we arent a 'bad team' and certainly are not a slow team, in fact we are one of the faster teams in the league overall.
Also, we dont have the defense capable of playing the trap properly, and thats our biggest issue.
our defensemen arent good at playing defense.
our 'best' defender Muzzin is currently our worst defender, followed by his main partner in Holl.
we need a major shakeup on the blue line, and need a solid 'defender' who can play top mins not another 2-way or puck carrier!

 

[mydnyte]

I'm not going to disagree. I just think that for whatever reason the current system is working against TOR. Also hard to believe that Keefe can micro-manage all that in a game.

Also TOR looks very slow out there.

thats because the passing has been garbage ...you cant move forward if the puck is passed behind you, or your defense is playing keep away with the puck and passing to the wrong team.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I dislike the term 'trap', probably for the same reason people who don't understand what it really is, like it: it sounds like something illegal, or at least morally wrong.

For them, any defensive system, or any system that stifles their offence (like a good forecheck) is called a trap, as though that means they are the good guys, who only lost because the bad guys cheated.

Neither a hard forecheck nor a defensive shell are anything like a trap, but using that name immediately makes them seem dirty.


One thing that Hyman gave the Leafs was the element of a hard forecheck on the top lines, which is missing right now. When we have the puck in the offensive zone we cycle it well, but we have trouble getting it back once we lose it.

We don't seem to have enough commitment from several forwards to execute a good defensive shell strategy.

Even a trap, which is really just a structured clogging up of the neutral zone, requires more discipline and attention to detail than several of our players display.

 

[Golden_Jet]

we arent a 'bad team' and certainly are not a slow team, in fact we are one of the faster teams in the league overall.
Also, we dont have the defense capable of playing the trap properly, and thats our biggest issue.
our defensemen arent good at playing defense.
our 'best' defender Muzzin is currently our worst defender, followed by his main partner in Holl.
we need a major shakeup on the blue line, and need a solid 'defender' who can play top mins not another 2-way or puck carrier!

The trap is a 5 man unit on defence, not just the D.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

we arent a 'bad team' and certainly are not a slow team, in fact we are one of the faster teams in the league overall.
Also, we dont have the defense capable of playing the trap properly, and thats our biggest issue.
our defensemen arent good at playing defense.
our 'best' defender Muzzin is currently our worst defender, followed by his main partner in Holl.
we need a major shakeup on the blue line, and need a solid 'defender' who can play top mins not another 2-way or puck carrier!

Why do you keep up this total BS garbage .. we are bottom 5 in NHL in team speed .. we have 5 guys who can skate at or above league average .. and we have 5 of slowest guys in entire league .. we are a SLOW team .. we are also one of most SKILLED teams in league too .. I have never seen a team built like this before

 

[egd27]

Hey, the team started ignoring defensive play under the coaching of Babcock. You telling me the players loved Lou so much they couldn't play D because he was upset a younger guy was preferred to run the team and he couldn't hold his pride to help that younger guy succeed? I get why people are upset at Dubas, but the earth isn't flat because he took over.

I assume you don't believe that Dubas undermined the previous coach as he is undermining the current one with this "good cop" office chats?

And don't forget when Lou was hired it was with a succession plan in place that he would step back when he did.

Yea, but I doubt that plan had the new guy signing an $11m UFA as his first major move. Thereby making the upcoming RFA negotiations as critical as they were.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Peak NJ Devils had the rep of being a trap team. They were hardly a bad team.

 

[17 Clark]

No. It's a lot harder to build a good defensive system than to allow forwards to just freewheel.

A good defensive system requires hard-working, dedicated team players throughout the lineup. Leafs would pretty much have to start from scratch, to build a team of players like Hyman, Komarov, Martin, Point, Marchand, Bergevin, and so on.

And that’s how you win the Stanley Cup The players everybody called sh#t lmao