Bad ice kills the entertainment value.

[usernamezrhardtodo]

The Raptors were always a scapegoat for the conditions of the ice, concerts and other events too. That the ice is still crap when the Leafs are the only game in town should dispel any notions of that. There are other rinks that share their venues with other basketball teams or hosting events, yet their ice is fine.

I don’t know what the bloody issue is but they need to do something about it. It’s embarrassing and actively hurts our team.

You can blame Climate Change...I partners in an HVAC company and the new gases they have developed for AC units is shite. Its been about 12yrs now that they have made it mandatory and for some reason it doesn't get the ice cold enough. I read an article that talked to some ICE guru dude who helped plan the outdoor events and the ice was usually great. When asked how he did it...and why he couldn't do it in an NHL rink...he said it was because he was allowed to use R-22 gas (the old stuff that is almost phased out now) compared to the newer 401-A gas. For whatever reason...401a gas gets too cold and freezes up the coils compared to R22. We tell people when they call asking for pricing on the new AC units...'If its not broken...stick with it..the new ones are nothing but headaches for having to be repaired for leaks'

I myself have the Reliance home comfort warranty on my stuff at home...its cheaper for me to do that than to get one of my guys to fix it when it breaks....pretty sad state we are in now in the HVAC business.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Well it went from freezing cold earlier in the week to pretty spring like in the city today. Humidity was up a lot.

but you would think there are air systems for that

The excuse was always the humidity caused by fans on top of the external weather...but now they can't use those 2 excuses...Its the ICE system that sucks.

 

[TorMapleJays]

In the old days they use to keep the pucks in the freezer before game time, in an effort to keep the puck from hopping, for visiting teams that were known to be quick and highly skilled, the home team would leave the pucks out at room temp to make it harder for them to play quick. You'd think that a team who is all about playmaking would create conditions that are favorable for them. Bouncing pucks, inconsistent ice would help a less skilled team slow the Leafs down.

they still do

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Brutal ice ... excess water ... sure it was a spring day in winter in TO but common boys ... is COVID so bad on financial resources that da ice is suffering ... turn on da damn air and fix it pregame .. we look like a poor COVID team when we can't even do that

Look at Edmonton as an example. The Northlands had the best ice in the league and everyone assumed it was because of the location....now the new building is in the same city and the ice is not even close to being as good. They don't have an NBA team to blame...its the way the ice is cooled that is the problem...the newer systems are shit.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

The raptors haven’t played in Toronto at all this year, and all other arenas get used for things other than hockey when the home team is away.

Is it the ice or are the pucks softer? Does anybody know? The ice has looked the same on the road.

They stopped using Amonia in the pipes that cool the ice surface...the product they use now is not as efficient at removing the heat. It won't get better until someone either develops a new way or they go back to amonia (which has a bad rap and they won't ever do)

 

[67 others]

How can the ice be so bad in the middle of winter in a pandemic with no body heat in the building or other events? Maybe they're trying the weird tech puck again.

Depends.

What is wrong with Toronto ice? I haven't watched the games lately.

I make ice regularly in halifax and If they rushed their ice due to being shorthanded(not bringing a full crew back to cut costs) by taking big hose shortcuts instead of small hose layering to harden each layer, they would end up with soft ice more suited to ice capades, which is terrible for hockey. Soft ice is good for landings and toe curls but bad for puck movement.

We usually end up adding 3/4th of an inch with the big hose and another layer of paintwhen ice capades or stars on ice comes to town. If it is thicker than an inch the top stays softer.

If their brine system isn't operating well and sucking the hest down and out, well, then that would also affect it. We have to yell at the crews that work on the concourse level regularly because they open the curtains to pass through then don't close them.

The brine system is incidentally also why letting a nasty fart go on the ice is frowned upon. Stinkers hang in the air for like 10 minutes due to the brine system pulling warm air down. In this case, heat doesn't rise, it is being slowly inexorably pulled down to be ejected through the arena floor.

I've gotten some nasty looks for it before lol. Drop a bad one during a commercial break when you are out shoveling the crease and then head back through the gate and stand by the zamboni and you.might see the goalie pull up his helmet and give a glare to the ice crew. Once it was so bad the goalie started gagging, shot a nasty look and then beelined away from the crease to the hash marks. Mac was coming through the gate with a big grin on his face. It wasn't me so I was like "wut?" Until I caught a whiff of what Mac had dropped and realized why the goalie just evacuated the crease. And why the rest of the ice crew suddenly evacuated the vom.

It hangs FOREVER. It's so annoying lol

 

[Leaftors]

They stopped using Amonia in the pipes that cool the ice surface...the product they use now is not as efficient at removing the heat. It won't get better until someone either develops a new way or they go back to amonia (which has a bad rap and they won't ever do)

Link?

 

[67 others]

I bet they turned on air in 1st period ... i heard it costs them around 50-75K for air each game ... i bet with cold weather they don't need to bother and can save $$$ but with 10 degree day in TO someone likely forgot and by time a corrective action was taken it was too late

It's more like $10000 a day to keep chillers running at top capacity and that includes the brine system

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Link?

Sorry...I can't find that exact article...but it was about one of the outdoor games and they were marveling at how good the ice was considering the weather was much warmer than they had anticipated. The Ice Guru said they allowed him to use 'older' systems for the ice that no newer building has currently.

Like I said in the other posts...I am in HVAC and I can tell you the newer AC systems suck compared to the old ones. They break down and leak out the gas from the A-coil at a tremendous rate. The pressure in the A-coil for R-401 or PURON as it sometimes called is 3x that of R-22...and the pipes spring tiny leaks where the welds are.

 

[hoglund]

How would you know if the players complained?

They'd mention it during post game interviews.

 

[Bluelines]

they still do

Really? I thought that was an old school thing that stopped in the 90's.

 

[Dreakmur]

I make ice regularly in halifax and If they rushed their ice due to being shorthanded(not bringing a full crew back to cut costs) by taking big hose shortcuts instead of small hose layering to harden each layer, they would end up with soft ice more suited to ice capades, which is terrible for hockey. Soft ice is good for landings and toe curls but bad for puck movement.

We usually end up adding 3/4th of an inch with the big hose and another layer of paintwhen ice capades or stars on ice comes to town. If it is thicker than an inch the top stays softer.

If their brine system isn't operating well and sucking the hest down and out, well, then that would also affect it. We have to yell at the crews that work on the concourse level regularly because they open the curtains to pass through then don't close them.

That would be a fair explanation if they took the ice out and rebuilt it regularly. This season, it’s just sitting there in an empty building.

I think their new zamboni flooding system is a problem. They changed from the old towel and water pipe to a new misting system.

 

[ACC1224]

They'd mention it during post game interviews.

what would that do? I’d think the team would let the ice crew know.

 

[hoglund]

what would that do? I’d think the team would let the ice crew know.

That could work too, but I think after watching interviews from the players would be as effective, I don't know if the players have any contact with the ice crew.

 

[ACC1224]

That could work too, but I think after watching interviews from the players would be as effective, I don't know if the players have any contact with the ice crew.

Management would have contact. Their work would be reviewed like any other employee. Why would they assume ice crew members watch their interviews? I know I don’t.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

That cost of AC has to be lower with no fans in the stands.

For sure it must be but I think that 1 crazy hot day in da city and it screwed over da ice ... and likely no one figured it out until pregame skate and then it is too late unless game time moved back a couple hours which they can't do with TV ... so it goes when you practice at Ford and play at Scotia ... by 3rd ice was better

 

[MattySnipes]

How did you guys find the ice quality last night?

Puck was definitely bouncing a bit, but I thought it looked pretty good all things considering.

 

[meefer]

Depends.

What is wrong with Toronto ice? I haven't watched the games lately.

I make ice regularly in halifax and If they rushed their ice due to being shorthanded(not bringing a full crew back to cut costs) by taking big hose shortcuts instead of small hose layering to harden each layer, they would end up with soft ice more suited to ice capades, which is terrible for hockey. Soft ice is good for landings and toe curls but bad for puck movement.

We usually end up adding 3/4th of an inch with the big hose and another layer of paintwhen ice capades or stars on ice comes to town. If it is thicker than an inch the top stays softer.

If their brine system isn't operating well and sucking the hest down and out, well, then that would also affect it. We have to yell at the crews that work on the concourse level regularly because they open the curtains to pass through then don't close them.

The brine system is incidentally also why letting a nasty fart go on the ice is frowned upon. Stinkers hang in the air for like 10 minutes due to the brine system pulling warm air down. In this case, heat doesn't rise, it is being slowly inexorably pulled down to be ejected through the arena floor.

I've gotten some nasty looks for it before lol. Drop a bad one during a commercial break when you are out shoveling the crease and then head back through the gate and stand by the zamboni and you.might see the goalie pull up his helmet and give a glare to the ice crew. Once it was so bad the goalie started gagging, shot a nasty look and then beelined away from the crease to the hash marks. Mac was coming through the gate with a big grin on his face. It wasn't me so I was like "wut?" Until I caught a whiff of what Mac had dropped and realized why the goalie just evacuated the crease. And why the rest of the ice crew suddenly evacuated the vom.

It hangs FOREVER. It's so annoying lol

This had me howling! Brought back a memory from years gone by when a player on our team, notorious for his ability to drop a bomb, collected the puck behind the net while the other team was changing lines. He did his best and then left the puck for his D partner, the guy who had wheels. Buddy goes to pick up the puck behind the net and almost loses his lunch. Our goalie was trapped in net and the stink eye he gave the perp at the end of the period had the rest of us in stitches. Good times

 

[justashadowof]

Bad ice can have its benefits. Look at Kerfoot's goal last night's out of town game. On his break with about 4 minutes left in the period, the puck wouldn't stay flat for Kerfoot so he just took a shot at roofing it in tight and it worked.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I agree that the ice has been poor this year - snowy, bouncing pucks, etc. On the plus side though, we're near the top of the league in a lot of defensive metrics, so it shouldn't necessarily hurt us going forward. At face value you would think a skill team would be disadvantaged but it appears that we've rounded a corner.

The ice will probably get worse as the weather gets warmer.

 

[Lightsol]

Link?

Refrigerant - Wikipedia

They stopped using Amonia in the pipes that cool the ice surface...the product they use now is not as efficient at removing the heat. It won't get better until someone either develops a new way or they go back to amonia (which has a bad rap and they won't ever do)

I think Ammonia is still periodically used in large commercial cooling. But it's expensive as all hell to keep running and it's toxic to humans to boot, which makes it somewhat undesirable. Apparently there's a new refrigerant they just came up with in the last 5 years that's much better at cooling than R-401, and it's good for the environment, too...

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Refrigerant - Wikipedia

I think Ammonia is still periodically used in large commercial cooling. But it's expensive as all hell to keep running and it's toxic to humans to boot, which makes it somewhat undesirable. Apparently there's a new refrigerant they just came up with in the last 5 years that's much better at cooling than R-401, and it's good for the environment, too...

They come up with a new one every 15yrs or so...the patents are 20yrs and they always come out with a new "better" Freon just in time. It's a racket..the R-401A leaks 50x more than R-22 because the pressure is so high. We stopped selling A/C's a few years back because of the constant complaints from people. Carrier used to be the best...now they are no different than the cheapest brand. Just get the longest parts and labor warranty if you are getting a new one...you will be grateful for it at some point.