B. Mendy found not guilty

[Evilo]

Football career finished, and the guy is found not guilty.
Wow.

Click to read more...

 

[Pink Mist]

Football career finished, and the guy is found not guilty.
Wow.

He still has another trial for other rape charge and an attempted rape charge.

He's not in the clear yet.

 

[Evilo]

He still has another trial for other rape charge and an attempted rape charge.

He's not in the clear yet.

Yeah 6 out of 7 not guilty.
I'm one of those who never believed he was innoncent though so I'll admit I was wrong on this.

It still asks the question of the policy of "suspending before trial" which has been discussed here for a while. In his case, he was even in jail.

 

[luiginb]

Football career finished, and the guy is found not guilty.
Wow.

Happened to Ched Evans before, and that was just one case.

However if you have seven freaking cases against you, you're not a good guy, full stop.

 

[Blender]

Yeah 6 out of 7 not guilty.
I'm one of those who never believed he was innoncent though so I'll admit I was wrong on this.

It still asks the question of the policy of "suspending before trial" which has been discussed here for a while. In his case, he was even in jail.

Found not guilty does not equal proven innocent. The burden of proof to deprive someone of their freedom is extremely high and for good reason, because sending innocent people to prison is considered worse than not being able to convict some people who committed the acts. Sexual assault cases are especially very difficult to convict people on, it's been a known issue for a long time. The burden of proof in civil cases such as employment is far lower, so you can't equate criminal consequences with civil consequences.

 

[bluesfan94]

Yeah 6 out of 7 not guilty.
I'm one of those who never believed he was innoncent though so I'll admit I was wrong on this.

It still asks the question of the policy of "suspending before trial" which has been discussed here for a while. In his case, he was even in jail.

To be fair, I don't think he would have been let of the jail for training.

 

[Evilo]

Happened to Ched Evans before, and that was just one case.

However if you have seven freaking cases against you, you're not a good guy, full stop.

That's what I thought beforehand, but I mean if the judges found him innoncent, I hardly see why we should think different.

Found not guilty does not equal proven innocent. The burden of proof to deprive someone of their freedom is extremely high and for good reason, because sending innocent people to prison is considered worse than not being able to convict some people who committed the acts. Sexual assault cases are especially very difficult to convict people on, it's been a known issue for a long time. The burden of proof in civil cases such as employment is far lower, so you can't equate criminal consequences with civil consequences.

The judges found him innoncent of the charges.
Again, I'm among those who thought he was obviously guilty because of the sheer number of cases.

 

[Blender]

That's what I thought beforehand, but I mean if the judges found him innoncent, I hardly see why we should think different.


The judges found him innoncent of the charges.
Again, I'm among those who thought he was obviously guilty because of the sheer number of cases.

I can't speak to how France works, but in common law countries (UK, Canada, USA, Australia, etc.) people are not found innocent by a court, that's outright false. They are found not guilty, as the threshold for conviction is "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt". If a judge or jury thinks there's a 90% chance someone is guilty, they are to acquit under that standard.

 

[Chimaera]

Yeah, with his economic status, the burden of proof, and the issues with the judicial systems, having the charges cleared is not completely the same as being innocent of wrong doing.

It is sad that the entire situation is likely ruining many lives, and that there's a difficulty of protecting all parties involved in this situation.

But... from the accounts he's giving, he's still relatively toxic for clubs to employ, innocent or not. It's not uncommon for many footballers, sure, but definitely a disappointment for all.

 

[phisherman]

So he's not guilty but people insinuate he's still guilty?

 

[bluesfan94]

So he's not guilty but people insinuate he's still guilty?

Have you met OJ?

Also he's still being tried for rape and attempted rape, so it's not like he's in the clear.

 

[Blender]

Have you met OJ?

Even just to stay on this crime many sexual assault victims sue in civil court as getting awarded damages based on a 51% probability is far more likely than a criminal conviction.

 

[Evilo]

I can't speak to how France works, but in common law countries (UK, Canada, USA, Australia, etc.) people are not found innocent by a court, that's outright false. They are found not guilty, as the threshold for conviction is "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt". If a judge or jury thinks there's a 90% chance someone is guilty, they are to acquit under that standard.

I think it works the same everywhere. You're innoncent until proven guilty. And thus you're innoncent when NOT found guilty.

So he's not guilty but people insinuate he's still guilty?

Pretty much. Because he has money and good lawyers, apparently, he's still guilty.

 

[Blender]

I think it works the same everywhere. You're innoncent until proven guilty. And thus you're innoncent when NOT found guilty.

This goes back to the original comment though, you're assumed innocent by the criminal court system because the penalties are severe, but that does not protect you from civil/contract actions such as termination, being ordered to pay damages, etc. Many people found not guilty in a criminal court have been found responsible by civil courts as the burden of proof is much lower.

 

[phisherman]

Have you met OJ?

Also he's still being tried for rape and attempted rape, so it's not like he's in the clear.

What does OJ's case have to do with Mendy's?

Yes there are cases where the verdict is wrong but unless there are facts out there that proves the verdict is wrong then people are just speculating based on their personal bias.

 

[bluesfan94]

What does OJ's case have to do with Mendy's?

Yes there are cases where the verdict is wrong but unless there are facts out there that proves the verdict is wrong then people are just speculating based on their personal bias.

That a not guilty verdict doesn't necessarily mean people don't still think you did the crime.

 

[phisherman]

That a not guilty verdict doesn't necessarily mean people don't still think you did the crime.

Right but what is the thought based on?

Does every not guilty verdict elicit the same "but OJ or just because he's not guilty doesn't mean he's innocent" reaction?

 

[Evilo]

This goes back to the original comment though, you're assumed innocent by the criminal court system because the penalties are severe, but that does not protect you from civil/contract actions such as termination, being ordered to pay damages, etc. Many people found not guilty in a criminal court have been found responsible by civil courts as the burden of proof is much lower.

Many yes but as of now he's innocent....

 

[bluesfan94]

Many yes but as of now he's innocent....

I mean, in that case nothing has changed

 

[robertmac43]

I wonder if anyone takes a punt on signing this guy.....

 

[Chimaera]

I clearly do not know the specific ins and outs of this case. But having what, 8 women accuse you? At a minimum there's a pattern of bad behavior. He still has another case to go through, and likely, I would expect some type of civil trial (though I don't know how that works in their system). However, the amount of convictions in these types of cases are pretty low. Even if there is someone willing to come forward, and evidence is presented.

He might be innocent, but it's a difficult situation for him.

I wonder if anyone takes a punt on signing this guy.....

There's a league somewhere where they will sign him. Plenty of creeps and scumbags have been signed that are likely much worse. Jon Flanagan, ex Liverpool hit his girlfriend, and he still played for a couple of clubs.

 

[Blender]

Many yes but as of now he's innocent....

The comment I responded to was about his club suspending him. That's what kicked off the discussion about the nuances of the legal system and the differences between criminal and civil actions.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Not guilty ≠ innocent.

The idea that nearly a dozen women came forward and there’s nothing to it is insanity.

 

[Evilo]

The comment I responded to was about his club suspending him. That's what kicked off the discussion about the nuances of the legal system and the differences between criminal and civil actions.

Oh I didn't get that you mean in terms of sporting light.
I'm really torn on this. I believe players should be suspended if they act badly (it doesn't even have to go to rape obviously), but OTOH, those rich guys are also easy targets.
They're also often guilty people, but just as much easy targets. It's tough cases and I just know that if I slept with a girl one night and she called me a rapist the next day, that it would not only destroy my personnal life (family, friends) but ALSO my work (suspended, fired) if I had done nothing wrong, then it's REALLY unfair.

Of course, I'm fully aware the vas majority of cases are exactly the other way. Rich people raping girls and getting away with it (usually never even on trial). And it's just as unfair (probably worse in fact).

I'm not saying Mendy was an innocent angel and that he was unfairly accused. Clearly he lived a life on a dangerous line with some serious mental problems. But there's also a chance these girls were never raped and felt that by going at it in numbers they'd convince more easily (I know it worked for me).

 

[Chimaera]

I completely agree that players are targets. They of course are. But, that's also part of the downside they face in getting to live a life none of us will ever come close to. He basically admitted it himself, saying that he felt it was easy to get women, because of who he was as a footballer.

It's a double edged sword. There are women out there who are looking to use wealthy people, but there are also many men who take advantage of the power they have in these situations.

One issue I have with much of this situation, and others like it, is there's really not the education and support system to help some of the players who are coming from basically nothing to make better decisions. It does not excuse being a slime ball, but footballers aren't given tools to make better choices either. It's become some of the program of some of the young academies, but not all, and not as extensive in all likelihood.