B. Boyle, Stralman, D. Boyle, Glass - Pick your combo

[Fletch]

Because if you like statistics, you have to like any contract given to a player with good statistics, regardless of the terms?

And I've never understood the iron wall between "the game" and "stats", as the stats measure only what occurs in that game.

we use stats to back-up our opinion. We throw away the stats and talk about what we see with our eyes when the stats don't support our opinion. The stats do lie...but if there is a consistent trend in the stats, and you cover the correlations well enough, then, well, it's hard to argue that a guy scoring 40 goal isn't a 40 goal scorer when he's scored between 39 and 41 goals for 7 straight years, well, of course, your eyes tell you something different

 

[Thirty One]

so...who's to blame?

The opposing goalies, I would say.

 

[Fletch]

The opposing goalies, I would say.

I've always said, they are your best penalty killers. Hoping Boyle works out on the PP. When it's still an 18% PP, everyone will cry, but I'm not sure who on this team, with Richards gone, was going to play that position effectively.

 

[silverfish]

Because if you like statistics, you have to like any contract given to a player with good statistics, regardless of the terms?

And I've never understood the iron wall between "the game" and "stats", as the stats measure only what occurs in that game.

Certainly not, but if you're using it one way, don't ignore it another. Pouliot is a corsi/fenwick/p/60 superstar, and everyone (rightfully so) railed his contract. Meanwhile, everywhere I look Mathieu Perreault is being heralded as this unsung superstar and everyone lauds his 3x$3m deal with Winnipeg as a great one.

Yes, Pouliot's contract is worse than Perreault's. Yes, Pouliot is older than Perreault. All those things aren't working in Benny's favor. But for a guy who had better corsi/fenwick numbers, played against tougher competition, and has not posted a negative relative corsi since 2011, he got destroyed pretty hard by the advanced stats lovers.

Now, I like advanced stats too, my issue comes with heralding one player for them, and ignoring them for another.

Sorry for the choppy response, I'm half focused on work

 

[Thirty One]

Certainly not, but if you're using it one way, don't ignore it another. Pouliot is a corsi/fenwick/p/60 superstar, and everyone (rightfully so) railed his contract. Meanwhile, everywhere I look Mathieu Perreault is being heralded as this unsung superstar and everyone lauds his 3x$3m deal with Winnipeg as a great one.

Yes, Pouliot's contract is worse than Perreault's. Yes, Pouliot is older than Perreault. All those things aren't working in Benny's favor. But for a guy who had better corsi/fenwick numbers, played against tougher competition, and has not posted a negative relative corsi since 2011, he got destroyed pretty hard by the advanced stats lovers.

Now, I like advanced stats too, my issue comes with heralding one player for them, and ignoring them for another.

Sorry for the choppy response, I'm half focused on work

Which advanced stat guys railed on Pouliot's contract?

 

[TheTakedown]

I've always said, they are your best penalty killers. Hoping Boyle works out on the PP. When it's still an 18% PP, everyone will cry, but I'm not sure who on this team, with Richards gone, was going to play that position effectively.

Very happy about the Boyle signing. McD is realistically the only other person with the competence and skill to play the puck with that much responsibility (and risk)... He has the skating, shot, dangles, swagger, and confidence to do it.

BUT, he's also our #1 defenseman, and you don't want McD getting 30 minutes a night. it'll kill him by the end of the season, which is why I'm glad they signed Boyle.

Also note that losing Brian Boyle and bringing in Dan Boyle fills a small piece of the leadership void, especially since Boyle will be with St. Louis... Locker room should be well under control.. (side note, I'm very glad Cally is gone, lol).

Lastly, important to note that there is at least 1 RHD prospect that may make his way up here in the next two years... Boyle on a short term allows them to move these guys around. That alone makes me feel like they did the right thing letting Stralman walk

 

[silverfish]

Which advanced stat guys railed on Pouliot's contract?

Forgive my generalizing, but I did not see a single positive comment on HF regarding Benny P's contract in Edmonton. It is entirely possible I missed it.

 

[Thirty One]

Forgive my generalizing, but I did not see a single positive comment on HF regarding Benny P's contract in Edmonton. It is entirely possible I missed it.

And do you not think the reactions would have flipped had Pouliot and Perreault signed for each others' terms?

 

[silverfish]

And do you not think the reactions would have flipped had Pouliot and Perreault signed for each others' terms?

I think less people would have hated the Benny P contract, but still thought it was too much money. I think nobody would've reacted at all differently to the Matty P contract. 5 year term for a 26 year old isn't much, and it's only $1m than what he signed for.

I'd have disagreed with both contracts. I suppose I don't really have a feel for this year's market considering what some of these players have been getting.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

This is a totally unfair poll. We haven't yet watched Glass/Boyle play on the team on a nightly basis and just reached the SCF with Stralman and B Boyle.

 

[vipernsx]

Boyle Boyle is the best. Special teams are important and one is elite at PK the other the PP. Stralman lacks PP skills and Glass is a dud.

 

[KingWantsCup]

Why on Earth would anyone pick either of the Glass options.

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

So what's the consensus on Sather signing Boyle over Stralman? Basically the same contract, but Stralman gets five years while Sather gave Boyle two years. Then again, Stralman is 27 and Boyle is 37. Was Sather worried about the NTC? Or the cap hit in years 3-5 of Stralman's contract?

Not saying Sather made the wrong choice - let's give Boyle a chance - but it seems odd that the same Sather who gave out so many insane contracts chose to cut back with a guy who is still in the upside of his career trajectory, and who had such a huge role in us making the Stanley Cup Finals.

Sather didn't want to give Strålman a NTC (it's been noted on several threads) and I don't think the organization wanted to give out a long-term contract to a defenseman AV refused to use on the power play. AV needed someone to play the point--that player doesn't exist in the organization as far as they were concerned and Boyle was ready, willing and able to sign a contract they thought was reasonable.

Bottom line--the Rangers got who they wanted. On paper, it works out well. We'll see what happens on the ice.

 

[Fataldogg]

Brian Boyle cannot play 3C. We saw what that looks like and I'm personally not a fan of going back to 2 4th lines.

I also feel it's a bit unfair to compare him to Glass. I think the choice management had to make was Boyle or Moore, not Boyle or Glass.

I agree with Boyle. He was great for what he was, and I wanted him back for that role (face offs, PK, 4th line, shutdown, etc.).

That said, I don't know if Stepan is really a 1C or if Brassard is really a 2C.

I think we're heading into next season a much worse team. We are going to be depending way too much on how our farm team recruits pan out.

A center depth of Stepan/Brassard/Miller is scary. And not in the good way. Our centers are not close to the top contenders.

We've gotten worse, and a lot of the teams around us have gotten better. I would not have minded signing someone like Legwand to that $3M contract, and go into next season with three second line centers.

If Kreider doesn't score 30g/30a, if Fasth doesn't make an immediate impact, if Miller can't step into his role and succeed at it, etc, we are not going to be the same team and truly contend.

Too many X-Factors next season.

Losing Stralman and getting D. Boyle was a lateral move, depending on how you look at it. But losing Boyle, Pouliot and Richards hurts this team. I know people hate Richards, but that's 50 points and a player who scored some big goals for us in the first two rounds. I know people hate Pouliot, but he had solid chemistry with MZA/Brassard and scored huge goals for us in the post season.

I'm not saying I wouldn't have bought out Richards or that I would have given Poo that albatross of a contract, but I would have looked at guys like Vrbata/Legwand to step into their roles and succeed.

 

[Fletch]

I agree with Boyle. He was great for what he was, and I wanted him back for that role (face offs, PK, 4th line, shutdown, etc.).

That said, I don't know if Stepan is really a 1C or if Brassard is really a 2C.

I think we're heading into next season a much worse team. We are going to be depending way too much on how our farm team recruits pan out.

A center depth of Stepan/Brassard/Miller is scary. And not in the good way. Our centers are not close to the top contenders.

We've gotten worse, and a lot of the teams around us have gotten better. I would not have minded signing someone like Legwand to that $3M contract, and go into next season with three second line centers.

If Kreider doesn't score 30g/30a, if Fasth doesn't make an immediate impact, if Miller can't step into his role and succeed at it, etc, we are not going to be the same team and truly contend.

Too many X-Factors next season.

Losing Stralman and getting D. Boyle was a lateral move, depending on how you look at it. But losing Boyle, Pouliot and Richards hurts this team. I know people hate Richards, but that's 50 points and a player who scored some big goals for us in the first two rounds. I know people hate Pouliot, but he had solid chemistry with MZA/Brassard and scored huge goals for us in the post season.

I'm not saying I wouldn't have bought out Richards or that I would have given Poo that albatross of a contract, but I would have looked at guys like Vrbata/Legwand to step into their roles and succeed.

One needs to hope that if the center depth isn't there, that it can be made up on the wings and that the defense can be strong once again. There are some players who can improve over last season (youngsters, like Stepan and Kreider). MSL is here, who hopefully is an improvement over Callahan over the course of the season. There hopefully is a normal schedule to begin the season (no Garden renovation), so the Rangers aren't out of sorts and fighting their way into it from early on. Hopefully Nash plays and entire season. Maybe a kid does take a step up. Hopefully Staal gets stronger and Boyle can move the puck and QB the PP. But it all doesn't matter if Lundqvist has only a good season; it needs to be great. Still have a couple months to go - players still need to be signed and moves still may be made.

 

[Garfinkel1]

One needs to hope that if the center depth isn't there, that it can be made up on the wings and that the defense can be strong once again. There are some players who can improve over last season (youngsters, like Stepan and Kreider). MSL is here, who hopefully is an improvement over Callahan over the course of the season. There hopefully is a normal schedule to begin the season (no Garden renovation), so the Rangers aren't out of sorts and fighting their way into it from early on. Hopefully Nash plays and entire season. Maybe a kid does take a step up. Hopefully Staal gets stronger and Boyle can move the puck and QB the PP. But it all doesn't matter if Lundqvist has only a good season; it needs to be great. Still have a couple months to go - players still need to be signed and moves still may be made.

Couldn't agree more. This is perfect.