I didn't but Talbot contract is up. Kid has been playing well so their next move might depend on where they think Forsberg is??? You can't have everything and Sens might decide to roll with their goalies to strengthen other areas. I will add once again that Sen's goalies have been as good as Coyotes while playing behind a team with much less emphasis on Team D.
Confirmed with Link: [AZ/OTT] Jakob Chychrun in exchange for a conditional first in ’23, a conditional second in ’24, & a 2nd in ‘26
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PainForShane
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Is this really the viewpoint you are choosing to contribute to the discussion.
In the meantime, glad you think Sogaard and Mandolese (and the very small sample size of Dylan Ferguson) have been as good as Veggie and Ingram and Pros. smh
I think you left out 2 Sens goalies, one of whom was healthy until after the trade deadline. Ferguson and Pros are really a wash, no one knows what either are in a very small sample size. Ingram and Forsberg similar seasons until Forsberg injury. Talbot and Veggie very similar.
Now think about team defence and I'm confident it's a wash at best.
PainForShane
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I left them out because they're not relevant to our discussion -- we're talking about the future of the Sens (ie next year and beyond) and whether they need a goalie. Talbot's a UFA so his contribution this past year isn't relevant to Sens unless they re-sign him. Re: Forsberg, we literally just discussed that we're not sure if Forsberg will be able to come back to his previous quality of play because of his multiple knee injuries. Lmk if you have questions about why neither of these goalies' track records will likely matter to the Sens next season.
One post ago you asked me to reference a post in which you said:
and now you seem to be arguing against the very point you made earlier today / asked me to look at. Because if Sens goalies = Yotes goalies then obviously Sens wouldn't need to add a goalie, Yotes goalies are pretty good, clearly the Yotes don't need to add anyone in net.
Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing or do you have something to add to the conversation? In other words what is the overarching point you are looking to share with the rest of us
It was in reference to your "glad you finally saw the light", I guess I incorrectly thought you were back to your silly assertion that Ottawa should have burned assets at deadline.
PainForShane
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So it sounds like you are saying OTT would love to acquire a goalie in the offseason, but you also think they would have been silly to have burned "assets" at this year's deadline (in order to acquire a backup goalie post-trade deadline). Keep in mind Quick cost a 7th rounder in 2025, seems that you consider that pick to be an asset (technically you are correct about that, a 7th rounder in 2025 is an asset regardless of how little value it has).
Put another way,
during the 2023 offseason, but you think they would have been silly to add a goalie at the end of this season, which clearly would've helped Dorion's stated goal of playing a larger number of meaningful games this year down the stretch.
Keep in mind Sens current goalies are literally the same goalies in the offseason with the exception of Talbot who is injured ie not playing for the rest of the year anyway.
Is that the argument you are making, and is this the overarching point you are looking to share with the rest of us? If not please lmk if I've misunderstood what you are saying
You don't think an opinion can change based on getting an extended look at your upcoming goalies combined with a chance to re-evaluate your older guy's injuries?? Tgatcsyre us a strange take even for You?? And Dorian literally told you his goal this year was to grow as a team and play meaningful games in March, and here they are still playing meaningful games at the end of March??
When the trade deadline arrived the Sens with sitting with about a 10% chance of making playoffs. They had few draft picks remaining for next 2 seasons. Their 1 A or B goalie was healthy and had a save percentage above .900. Their young guy had recorded save percentage of .938, .938, and .941 in his last 3 starts.
Now read all of that and tell me on deadline day how you think burning a 3rd or 4th rounder would be a good decision for Dorian as that what's you said he should have done. You're Chayka I think.
PainForShane
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I can't believe you honestly believe anything you just said.
1) Ottawa has "few draft picks for the next two seasons."
Quick cost a 7th rounder in 2025. Looks like Ottawa's slate of draft picks in full in 2025, no? Wonder why you specifically mentioned "next two seasons" instead of the relevant metric of including 2025 draft picks (you know, bc that's what year the pick cost for Quick ie the most relevant comparable).
2) Most would agree giving the 3rd string / goalie of the future (Sogaard) an extended look is a great idea. Including Bill Armstrong who is doing that right now with Prosvetov... but somehow AZ also has a backup goalie. So... if OTT would've traded for a backup would Dorion have been able to give an extended look to his younger goalie (just like BA is currently doing with Prosvetov?) You tell me.
3) OTT knew Forsberg was out for the season pretty soon after his injury (and long before the trade deadline). Here's an NHL.com article from Feb 13 (which clearly says Forsberg would be out for the season): Forsberg won't need surgery, likely out rest of season for Senators
Oh look, maybe it's the same article you quoted, it has the same DJ Smith quote -- "I just think this is rehab, but it's long," Senators coach D.J. Smith said. "It's not a six-month thing, but it's probably more like a two- to three-month thing."
Point is they knew this in mid Feb. There was no need to "re-evaluate your older guy's injuries" like you just claimed.
4) Both the 3rd and 4th string goalies had well-below average / borderline horrible AHL stats. Here are their AHL goalies stats as of today:
Seems silly to trust your NHL playoff run to any of these these guys doesn't it? GAA well above 3.00, Save % well under 0.900 in the AHL, where shooters are not nearly as good as in the show. Maybe shoulda traded for someone capable of making a save what do you think.
5) Lastly, regarding OTT currently playing meaningful games... very few OTT fans think the current games are meaningful (as we've already discussed with a relevant playoff chart a few posts ago). I included an OTT thread link a page ago, seems like you are intentionally going out of your way to stay stupid / not learn anything, by all means plz continue. Regardless, neutral prediction sites agree - currently 538, the Athletic, MoneyPuck all have OTT playoff playoff odds at well under 5% with 8 games to play (fivethirtyeight has the highest OTT playoff odds at 3%). Clearly their games are not currently meaningful.
The point: Dorion's goal this year is to help the team grow, and growth is maximized the longer the team plays meaningful games. At the deadline, OTT was playing meaningful games, and if Dorion had acquired an NHL backup goalie capable of making a save, he would have maximized his chance to keep playing meaningful games down the stretch, and that would have cost him, at most, a 2025 3rd or 4th round pick (Quick would've been fine, he only cost a 2025 7th). OTT has a full slate of draft picks in 2025, so that would have been a very low cost to pay.
Lmk if you have any questions about the logic.
In the meantime you're not fooling anyone with your dishonest nonsense. But you're welcome to try to distract everyone by incorrectly defining the word "hope" for the better part of an entire page, next time though might be worth reading / understanding the definition of the word before you include it in a post.
***
And yet...
he says. looks like there's at least a tiny bit there that's not a hopeless troll
Point 3 makes zero sense as I was clearly talking about how the plans change at deadline vs summer. You re-evaluate the 1A/B after season to see if injuries have long term implications.
You literally pistec tgat Ittawa gas little draft pucks left to prove.......that I was correct. Interesting strategy Cotton.
The whole hockey world outside yourself and some online Ottawa fanatics know they are playing meaningful games right now. Abd outside of an initial bed crapping that Sogaard guy has started to play quite well. Probably better they abandoned him for tge hypothetical Quick trade tgat you have no idea was available. Quick was so good in LA that clearly Ottawa could count on him doing so much better in front of their young team.
I know Dorian clearly stated his goal this season was team growth and playing meaningful games in March but in reality only you know that deep down his hope was the playoffs? Interesting take??
I learned yesterday that in terms of setting goals and hopes when you say "that would be a bonus" it means it was actually your hope???
PainForShane
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I'm sorry man. To me your entire post seems to have no overarching point. Seems like all you want to do is argue without adding any value.
Like you said, I "literally pistec tgat Ittawa gas little draft pucks left to prove," whatever the hell that means. And you're saying I had no idea Quick was available when we all know he was.. because he actually was traded (for a 7th rounder in 2025). Also you're saying a Quick trade would've meant abandoning Sogaard which is not even close to what anyone believes or what I was saying at all (see point 2 above which is about playing your 3rd string goalie the same way BA is playing Prosvetov).
And also, looks like you're even banging on again about the definition of hope, I guess old habits die hard and an entire page of nonsense wasn't enough. I find it very strange you still haven't been able to understand what the word means even though you included the dictionary definition of the word in one of your posts. Seems like a weird hangup, the word isn't that hard to understand esp since you can look at the dictionary definition right in front of you.
In the meantime, you're not fooling anyone. Everyone knows that Ottawa's season is effectively over (betting markets, OTT fans etc), and everyone knows if they'd traded for a legitimate backup they would've had a somewhat decent chance to extend their season for at least a few more games. Even you know this but by all means please continue to argue against any and every point of view that's out there
So Quick getting traded bow means that he was available for Ottawa?? Interesting? Why isn't Chychrun a Blue Jacket in that case? Can you see how its possible that just maybe Quick might not have wanted to go to Ottawa and Columbus granted him that benefit?
Ottawa will be playing meaningful games until they are officially eliminated. Sogaard's last few games have actually extended that despite his shake start for a few after Talbot's injury. I'm sure you wrote earlier about how great Quick would be when he was absolutely crap in LA rather than his resurgence in Vegas right??
If you think Sogaard would have gotten playing time behind a healthy Talbot and Quick then why exactly would you get Quick. BTW that Pros guy can't seem to get a game these days so hardly a good example.
PainForShane
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All you're doing is arguing. You have no idea what the overall points of my argument are even though they were spelled out above with numbers / paragraphs. And it seems like you have no idea what the overall points of your own argument are because I'm not sure you've actually thought them through. For instance "Why exactly would you get Quick" maybe to have a chance to win games and play meaningful games down the stretch... isn't that a good thing and what you've been arguing Dorion's wanted to do this entire time?
So let's try to figure out your argument. You must have one buried somewhere underneath all of this nonsense, right? It's possible I guess. And if it's there we should be able to find it.
According to you,
you were talking about the offseason when you said that. Also according to you, "burning a 3rd or 4th rounder on deadline day (for a goalie) would've been a bad idea" because I guess OTT don't need a goalie for the remainder of the season. But also according to you, "Ottawa will be playing meaningful games until they are officially eliminated."
If Ottawa were actually playing meaningful games (which you've argued is happening, no one believes you but it's a key part of your argument that you've repeated multiple times), any sane person would think Ottawa would "love to add a goalie" for these "meaningful games" they're playing, in other words if you're going to pick someone up in the offseason anyway might as well do it now for these 'games that matter.' Esp since Dorion's goal was to play as many meaningful games as he could down the stretch, a goalie would help that.
This is the problem if all you do is argue. The points you're arguing for don't make sense when you put them together and actually look at them.
If you're having trouble following your own argument, you're literally arguing Sens would love to add a goalie during the offseason... but according to you they do NOT want to add one now during these 'meaningful games' you're insisting they're playing. Because... well... no one knows why. But I'm sure you'll come up with another nonsense point and continue to argue in circles with yourself. Best of luck with that.
You're still not fooling anybody. I seriously doubt you're even fooling yourself
I guess they should just start tge playoffs right now as tge rest of Florida's, Ottawa's, Calgary's, and Nashville's games are just meaningless. Nah I'm guessing every single one of those teams want to see their players grow from being in the heat of a playoff race with meaningful games in March, heck maybe even April.
Speaking of not making sense, try going back and reading, A poster was talking about trading with Ottawa in summer and getting Pinto for a Coyote goalie when I responded a reply that included "I'm sure they would like to add a goalie " you would have be either very narrow focused on arguing with a singular poster or just generally dumb. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep using questions that have been answered several times???
PainForShane
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Ummm... yes? That's the point. That's been the point the entire time.
Re: Ottawa, here's where their season effectively ended (happened immediately after Talbot got injured, Forsberg's season had ended a few weeks before).
That's 34GA in 7 games, 2 empty netters so ~4.57GAA with goalies in the net. Season effectively over with a month still left to play... and these goals against were not really unexpected given Sogaard had a 3.30GAA and a sub 0.900 sv% after a decent sample size of 20+ games in the AHL (see screenshots above).
Doing quick math if OTT had managed to go 3-3-1 during that stretch above (instead of 1-5-1), they'd currently be 1 point back of Pittsburgh and their season / playoff hopes would still be very much alive today, which we both agree would be better off for the team because you've accidentally made sense for once.
Lmk if you have questions re: the logic and / or argument. Or don't. In the meantime as Yotes fan I'm happy / relieved Dorion blundered so badly in not acquiring a backup because it means the Ottawa pick will likely end up slightly higher than I think it probably should've
Very easy to question, the Team and The Goalie had a bad stretch. That happens to all lower level teams and young goalies. You say this was a given from a Goalie who up until that point was coming off a record or 4 wins, one loss and an ot loss in the month of February with a save percentage around .920. The loss was in relief ftr.
I'm sure everyone looked at this in early March and thought that with Talbot and Sogaard in the fold what the Sens really needed to do was try to add Quick, who hadn't had a start above .900 save percentage this calender year. Ah yes hindsight make you smart especially when you only use it to pick your plans.
PainForShane
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Like you said, bad stretches happen to all young goalies. Which is why you need insurance in the form of an experienced backup goaltender. Put another way, your high-potential rookie goalie's had a whole season of well below average AHL stats, even if he starts out hot you can't reasonably expect him to continue that level of play, especially if you need to fight for every single point on your way to hopefully muscling yourself into a playoff race.
And yes, I realized this at the time of the deadline as well (FWIW I thought any backup would've be fine, personally thought Reimer would've made most sense). This revisionist history stuff you're implying isn't relevant or applicable here.
Anyway Dorion should have realized this too that's all I'm saying. Let's see where we end up drafting and whether the slightly better draft position actually makes any difference
Ah yes the very popular move for a team with a slim chance at playoffs is to go out and spend assets for a backup for your backup.
PainForShane
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That's not even close to what I said. But at least your answer was somewhat funny this time, we're all impressed
It is you just used different words. Funny thing is at the deadline there was more talk in Ottawa about trading Talbot then there was in getting a rental backup.
LittlePipes
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Wait about 5-6 years and there's a team trying to get out of a long-term big money deal on LTIR.
PainForShane
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Would be amazing if he signed here as a UFA in a few years. He'll want to go to a contender I'm sure so if we get to contender status (and he signs here), that's two reasons to jump off the walls in excitement
Chych has more games missed than Hanzal at same point in their careers. We don't want him back especially at UFA time when you have to over pay for stars.
GhostofTommyBolin
Registered User
This is spot-on. I'd bet a good chunk of money that Andersen winds up signing in Ottawa after the season.
PainForShane
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Nah man. A second string and a third string goalie are different. Which is clearly obvious.
Just like it's clearly obvious a team looking to force their way into a playoff spot (or at least into a playoff run) wouldn't consider trading their starting goalie like you just said they were. Especially if they'd just traded their 1st rounder for Chychrun (ie no incentive to tank).
Again, you're not fooling anybody.
Good luck trying to convince everyone else you're not a troll. *shrug*
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