Confirmed with Link: [AZ/EDM] Troy Stecher and a 2024 7th round pick (BOS) to Edmonton in exchange for a 2027 4th round pick

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

I like to hold players accountable after a 14 game losing streak and an epic collapse.
I mean come on, this same roster was fighting for a wildcard spot. Then it all fell apart.

Why?

Did BA change something mid-season to all of a sudden cause a 14 game losing streak and crushing the team's hope of reaching a wildcard spot? No. Did Coach Tourigny? No. Who's left then? The players.

Just as an example, the Penguins suffered hard rebuild too. I'd imagine back then they probably had a really bad team culture due to low morale too. But they eventually drafted more talent (like we are now) and got over their losing culture (like we will too.) So I'm not worried about how the team's culture now will affect the team's culture later on down the road a bit.

Pittsburgh Penguins:
2001-02 - 69 Pts.
2002-03 - 65 Pts.
2003-04 - 58 Pts.
2004-05 - Lockout
2005-06 - 58 Pts.

Then they went on to make the playoffs 16 times over the next 17 seasons, with 3 Stanley Cups along the way. Winning culture.

There’s a key thing in there you fail to mention and I also don’t want to mention it but we all know what it is

 

[DustyDangler]

I like to hold players accountable after a 14 game losing streak and an epic collapse.
I mean come on, this same roster was fighting for a wildcard spot. Then it all fell apart.

Why?

Did BA change something mid-season to all of a sudden cause a 14 game losing streak and crushing the team's hope of reaching a wildcard spot? No. Did Coach Tourigny? No. Who's left then? The players.

Just as an example, the Penguins suffered hard rebuild too. I'd imagine back then they probably had a really bad team culture due to low morale too. But they eventually drafted more talent (like we are now) and got over their losing culture (like we will too.) So I'm not worried about how the team's culture now will affect the team's culture later on down the road a bit.

Pittsburgh Penguins:
2001-02 - 69 Pts.
2002-03 - 65 Pts.
2003-04 - 58 Pts.
2004-05 - Lockout
2005-06 - 58 Pts.

Then they went on to make the playoffs 16 times over the next 17 seasons, with 3 Stanley Cups along the way. Winning culture.

Also, wasn't really a hockey market and should've been relocated based on today's standards...

2001-02 - 15,649
2002-03 - 14,750 (1OA MAF)
2003-04 - 11,877 (2OA Malkin)
2004-05 - Lockout (1OA Crosby)
2005-06 - 15,804 (2OA J Staal)

Give em a gaggle of premium players, get 'em in the playoffs and bam 18,000+ year after year.

 

[Kai Yo T]

There’s a key thing in there you fail to mention and I also don’t want to mention it but we all know what it is

If you mean what I think you mean, it's still an issue with a player's ability to handle adversity. Even players on top teams have to overcome mental obstacles. Not a GM or Coach problem, anyways.

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

If you mean what I think you mean, it's still an issue with a player's ability to handle adversity. Even players on top teams have to overcome mental obstacles. Not a GM or Coach problem, anyways.

We might be thinking of different things actually lol I was thinking of the insane lottery luck the penguins got to enjoy each of those years, which we all know the coyotes have not and will not ever have

 

[cobra427]

The players. Neither Armstrong nor Tourigny are mind readers.

When is anything ever going to be BA or Bear's fault? Let's walk through this:

BA acquired the players, they are supposed to be good culture guys and hard working players, that what he says. If the players have quit, that is on BA to some degree for picking players that quit.

If players are quitting or not playing hard, Bear can change the minutes they play and hold them more accountable. I have not seen any material TOI changes.

I think on this board, most fans are enamored with BA because he has so many young players with "potential". And many others think Bear has done a great job because young players are improving. I personally think young talented players tend to improve because of their talent not the coaching.

To me, year 4/3 of the BA/Bear show and we are likely low 70 points, another 25 gets us into a solid playoff position. I am just not enamored with the results (so far) at this stage of the rebuild (maybe we should call it year 1 since thats when we traded Chych). The 14 game losing streak and the results this season is not all on the players, the coach and GM have to own some of it too.

 

[Kai Yo T]

We might be thinking of different things actually lol I was thinking of the insane lottery luck the penguins got to enjoy each of those years, which we all know the coyotes have not and will not ever have

Oh, haha! I was thinking you meant the possible distraction the arena situation could cause.

I did think of it and did intentionally leave it out. But I did so because most teams never get a generational player, but they can gather multiple all-star level talents. I think that is realistic for us since the only luck we have has been bad luck with the draft order. We don't need a Sidney Crosby to eventually have a winning culture anyways. Not comparing timelines or anything, just that losing cultures can be overcome. Kind of unrealistic to expect a winning culture during a rebuild. But we'll get there.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Our D core next year could be worse than the one this year, which is hard to believe haha

Not to mention inexcusable.

 

[Mangosteen]

When is anything ever going to be BA or Bear's fault? Let's walk through this

I think on this board, most fans are enamored with BA because he has so many young players with "potential". And many others think Bear has done a great job because young players are improving. I personally think young talented players tend to improve because of their talent not the coaching.

Let's look at Cooley. Beginning of the year his name was talked about Calder. His preseason was incredible.

Then he started to look aweful. 3 and 4 line winger for a long period. I was really worried we broke another player with potential.

Last few weeks he has been looking a lot better and seeing the potential. Hopefully we are coaching him to his potential.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

When is anything ever going to be BA or Bear's fault?

Armstrong and Tourigny aren't perfect. But they also aren't puppeteers. E.g., Zucker was a good culture and room guy in Pittsburgh, but not here. Was Armstrong supposed to have a crystal ball to tell him this would happen? And Tourigny at one point had Keller believing in himself so much that he was a legit star player on the ice, but then something changed that and now's he's back to the perimeter-only dipsy-doodle game. Is that Bear's fault?

BA acquired the players, they are supposed to be good culture guys and hard working players, that what he says.

Again, Armstrong can see trends and history, but he is not f***ing Carnac the Magnificent.

I personally think young talented players tend to improve because of their talent not the coaching.

...and yet Bear is responsible if they don't improve or have setbacks?

I know it's in vogue right now to blame everything else but oneself for things, but at one point personal accountability and motivation mattered. You can't look at players like stew ingredients. They're human beings, and therefore ultimately how they behave and perform at their tasks is up to them

 

[ck26]

Sucks to see him go again, but decent return.

Here's hoping he keeps his house in Scottsdale and re-signs here in the summer.

 

[Kai Yo T]

Also, wasn't really a hockey market and should've been relocated based on today's standards...

2001-02 - 15,649
2002-03 - 14,750 (1OA MAF)
2003-04 - 11,877 (2OA Malkin)
2004-05 - Lockout (1OA Crosby)
2005-06 - 15,804 (2OA J Staal)

Give em a gaggle of premium players, get 'em in the playoffs and bam 18,000+ year after year.

You may be aware that they were actually close to being relocated at the same time they rebuilt. Probably that's what you mean by should've?

Maybe a good example of what the "bright side" could be for us if this all comes together. Not expecting 3 cups, but we should complete and be a blast to watch for years to come if it all does and have zero worries about where the team will be in 2 years.

Penguins declare impasse, will explore relocation

 

[moosemeister]

Not to mention inexcusable.

May not have a choice unless BA gets some incredible trade opportunities.

Free agents will need to want to be here. Which with the off ice uncertainty, isn’t likely.

Trades can be difficult, we will need to get a player under team control for a few years so they can’t bolt at the first opportunity.

Durzi was a great opportunity. But top pairing D don’t get traded unless it’s a hockey trade, which we can’t afford to do either. Outside of Cooley and Guenther, there isn’t anyone in the pipeline you could trade for a top pairing D.

This team might stink for a few more years unless AZ gets incredibly lucky, or they secure their land deal and starting showing the league they mean business. The arena deal probably requires just as much luck as the former.

 

[Jakey53]

The culture I want is one that doesn't have players that quit halfway through the season.

Who started this culture BS? The players didn't quit. Before the losing streak everyone on these boards were just fine, then came the losing streak. The team could have easily won 4 or 5 of those games, but we didn't. Now all of a sudden we have a losing culture, players not playing hard, want to trade one of our best players for a 2nd. rounder because he's not a McKinnon type player etc. Sure it's frustrating and I think this season will end up being a bit disappointing for me but we all knew we weren't a playoff team.

I was pretty okay with the first half of the season, but I’ll be honest the losing streak shook me. And it takes a lot to shake me with this franchise. After that losing streak and this most recent loss to Chicago, I have a hard time looking at this season as a success

I agree. I think our early season success led us to believe we were a playoff contender.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

May not have a choice unless BA gets some incredible trade opportunities.

Free agents will need to want to be here. Which with the off ice uncertainty, isn’t likely.

Trades can be difficult, we will need to get a player under team control for a few years so they can’t bolt at the first opportunity.

Durzi was a great opportunity. But top pairing D don’t get traded unless it’s a hockey trade, which we can’t afford to do either. Outside of Cooley and Guenther, there isn’t anyone in the pipeline you could trade for a top pairing D.

This team might stink for a few more years unless AZ gets incredibly lucky, or they secure their land deal and starting showing the league they mean business. The arena deal probably requires just as much luck as the former.

Free agency, that’s put up ($) or shut up time, but only if you’re interested in improving/competing.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Who started this culture BS? The players didn't quit. Before the losing streak everyone on these boards were just fine, then came the losing streak. The team could have easily won 4 or 5 of those games, but we didn't. Now all of a sudden we have a losing culture, players not playing hard, want to trade one of our best players for a 2nd. rounder because he's not a McKinnon type player etc. Sure it's frustrating and I think this season will end up being a bit disappointing for me but we all knew we weren't a playoff team.

Isn’t that the truth. Buncha clowns on a message board that somehow think they have insight as to culture and the room.
While I’m certain the players aren’t happy about the teams current status, it’s not due to culture, or a lack of effort, my eyes and 54 years with the game make that obvious.