Speculation: Avs biggest holes

[the_fan]

It doesn't look bad if they do get Radulov, but if they don't then you gotta either trade or pick up a top 6 UFA (if available) or rely on 39 year old Tanguay and Iginla which could be a disaster.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I know people don't want to hear it but Soderberg wasn't paid the coin he is to be out of the top 6, at least in the early stages of his contract. Was looking at some Boston stats last night. He was the 3rd forward in total TOI and the 5th forward in TOI/g. So how exactly was he not used as a top 6 forward? Also surprised me to see their highest point producer was Bergeron at 55 points, so that puts Soderberg's 44 points at 3rd on the team.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I know people don't want to hear it but Soderberg wasn't paid the coin he is to be out of the top 6, at least in the early stages of his contract. Was looking at some Boston stats last night. He was the 3rd forward in total TOI and the 5th forward in TOI/g. So how exactly was he not used as a top 6 forward? Also surprised me to see their highest point producer was Bergeron at 55 points, so that puts Soderberg's 44 points at 3rd on the team.

he was used like a top 6F last season.

just TOI can be misleading, as someone like bergeron has pretty short shifts and then soderberg tends to have pretty long shifts (7 sec difference).

bruins tend to roll their lines pretty evenly and krejci being injured for almost half a season and then playing on the wing after coming back from injury, had soderberg up there in ice time. ahead of bergeron even.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I know people don't want to hear it but Soderberg wasn't paid the coin he is to be out of the top 6, at least in the early stages of his contract. Was looking at some Boston stats last night. He was the 3rd forward in total TOI and the 5th forward in TOI/g. So how exactly was he not used as a top 6 forward? Also surprised me to see their highest point producer was Bergeron at 55 points, so that puts Soderberg's 44 points at 3rd on the team.

just because he was used as a top6 forward doesn't mean that's where he should be. It's not like he got those minutes on a good team. And honestly, 44 points for 3rd most TOI is pretty bad.

When they were a championship caliber team he was 7th in TOI and in points, and even had more points. If we want to contend we should be using him in the same role (#7 forward). Hence why many believe we have a hole in the top 6, because he really is the best option currently.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I hear some people say he's "unproven" in that role. Of course I understand people want more talent in those positions, I'm sure every team would like more top 6 players on their team.

 

[Tweaky]

just because he was used as a top6 forward doesn't mean that's where he should be. It's not like he got those minutes on a good team. And honestly, 44 points for 3rd most TOI is pretty bad.

When they were a championship caliber team he was 7th in TOI and in points, and even had more points. If we want to contend we should be using him in the same role (#7 forward). Hence why many believe we have a hole in the top 6, because he really is the best option currently.

You mean his first season in the NHL (unless you really want to count the 6 total games the year before as a season)? All of the Bruins went downhill last year, just like the Avs. Hell, maybe even worse. We are expecting bouncebacks for guys like Duchene, Landy, etc. Why should we assume that Yeti will deteriorate? If anything, better linemates and more comfort on NHL ice should translate into better production, especially with an increased role. He was second in the league in scoring in Sweden the year he came over...he does have some skill, and it does translate somewhat, or he would not have posted a pair of 40+ point seasons as a rookie and sophomore (albeit a very old one).

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I hear some people say he's "unproven" in that role. Of course I understand people want more talent in those positions, I'm sure every team would like more top 6 players on their team.

Ah, my bad. Misunderstood your point.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

You mean his first season in the NHL (unless you really want to count the 6 total games the year before as a season)? All of the Bruins went downhill last year, just like the Avs. Hell, maybe even worse. We are expecting bouncebacks for guys like Duchene, Landy, etc. Why should we assume that Yeti will deteriorate? If anything, better linemates and more comfort on NHL ice should translate into better production, especially with an increased role. He was second in the league in scoring in Sweden the year he came over...he does have some skill, and it does translate somewhat, or he would not have posted a pair of 40+ point seasons as a rookie and sophomore (albeit a very old one).

What? How in the world am I saying he will deteriorate?

And I highly doubt his role will increase from last year, other than maybe some PK time. As TV pointed out, he was 3rd in minutes. He was first in overall 5on5 time as well (2nd per game behind Krejci). If anything his role will decrease.

 

[the_fan]

I hear some people say he's "unproven" in that role. Of course I understand people want more talent in those positions, I'm sure every team would like more top 6 players on their team.

The problem is that Duchene and MacKinnon haven't really done much and still remain a question mark. What are you gonna get from them? I don't think anyone knows.

If they both can be the players they are suppose to be, speciallly MacKinnon, then the Avs don't really need true top 6 forwards throughout, i mean they can get by with Soderberg there.

But if Duchene and MacKinnon gonna continue putting up mediocre numbers. then the Avs will need legit top 6 forward group, and Soderberg wont cut it

 

[tigervixxxen]

If Duchene and MacKinnon are medicore then it really doesn't matter what anyone else does. I wouldn't say they haven't done much, consistency is the issue I get but its not like they are unproven prospects.

 

[forsbergavs32]

IMO the remaining holes would be filled by Grigs transitioning successfully to wing and adding Radulov in 16-17...Ideally for me the lineup will be complete then. Grigs and Rads come in and Iggy moves down to the 3rd line for his final year. With the D I think it will be in solid shape with our guys jumping into the NHL. The only other area of concern to me is a backup for Varly, if Pickard comes up as a call up this year and does great and looks like a starter, we may need to trade him. If Berra doesn't improve, we'll need to move on from him and maybe look for a backup via trade or FA if both Berra and Picks have to go.

Grigorenko-Duchene-Radulov
Landeskog-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Bleakley-Soderberg-Iginla
McLeod-Mitchell-Everberg

Zadorov-EJ
Beauchemin-Barrie
Bigras-Stuart/Holden/Geertsen/whoever

Varly
Pickard/Berra/FA/Trade

 

[Tweaky]

What? How in the world am I saying he will deteriorate?

And I highly doubt his role will increase from last year, other than maybe some PK time. As TV pointed out, he was 3rd in minutes. He was first in overall 5on5 time as well (2nd per game behind Krejci). If anything his role will decrease.

My apologies, it is not your post in particular...just a general impression of a few posters, and yours happened to be the one I quoted. As for TOI/gm last year, he was 3rd in B's centers, not forwards. His role was behind Bergeron and Krejci (for his 47gp). He will be 2nd with the Avs this year, unless someone takes his spot. Maybe even first, if he gets enough PK time to make up the difference. And he is likely to be higher than 3rd C on PP TOI/gm like he was with BOS last year. To me, that's an increased role.

I guess I would like to see a little more developmental hope for a guy that has only played 15 more NHL games than MacK. Yes, he has a bunch of Swedish experience, but we all agree that it is an adjustment to play with the big boys. He could very well blossom into a decent #2C for us. Mind you, I am not counting on it, and see MacK or even Grigs pushing him down eventually. But to see constant pessimism gets old. I think he will be a fine stop-gap #2, and a great #3. And possibly more....but the feeling I get from other posters is that he is already at his ceiling, no question, no chance of improvement.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

My apologies, it is not your post in particular...just a general impression of a few posters, and yours happened to be the one I quoted. As for TOI/gm last year, he was 3rd in B's centers, not forwards. His role was behind Bergeron and Krejci (for his 47gp). He will be 2nd with the Avs this year, unless someone takes his spot. Maybe even first, if he gets enough PK time to make up the difference. And he is likely to be higher than 3rd C on PP TOI/gm like he was with BOS last year. To me, that's an increased role.

I guess I would like to see a little more developmental hope for a guy that has only played 15 more NHL games than MacK. Yes, he has a bunch of Swedish experience, but we all agree that it is an adjustment to play with the big boys. He could very well blossom into a decent #2C for us. Mind you, I am not counting on it, and see MacK or even Grigs pushing him down eventually. But to see constant pessimism gets old. I think he will be a fine stop-gap #2, and a great #3. And possibly more....but the feeling I get from other posters is that he is already at his ceiling, no question, no chance of improvement.

You are correct, 3rd center overall. But 5on5 he was the 2nd most used forward per game. He averaged 14:45 last year 5on5 and I'm sure it would have been less if Krejci wasn't injured. Duchene, Lando and Iggy will more than likely get more time, MacK as well if he steps up his game, and maybe Tangs depending on how he holds up. Plus the potential for Grigo and Rantanen to surprise and earn big roles. He might still get close to those minutes because we use our bottom players less than Boston, but I highly doubt he is going to be our 1st or 2nd most used forward 5on5, like last year. He also got 2:00 of PP time. Who knows how his time will go with us (we have a lot of guys who SHOULD be really good PP options, including him), but I doubt it's much more than the 2:00 minutes he was getting. As for the PK, I figure that's where his role will increase and give him a significant boost in overall time. But considering his PK usage recently he might not get much time again. I would say that's a decrease because 5on5 is more important than special teams usage IMO, even if overall time is more.

Honestly, I wouldn't expect much development at his age. Do guys really need that much time to adjust to NA ice (I would think 2 years is well more than enough time)? Skills, skating, strength, IQ, that should be developed already regardless of where he played. At his age it's going to be more about fit and chemistry with line mates, not necessarily individual development.

As for the pessimism, it's a thread about our holes. Can't really be optimistic when describing where a hole is. I don't think anyone is being too pessimistic though. Nobody seems to think any less of him than you do (decent/fine 2nd liner, great 3rd liner), or maybe I just wasn't paying close attention. Honestly, I think it's more about the rest of the team than him personally. Everyone is "decent" in their assumed roles. Picking him as the hole isn't necessarily a knock on him but a positive for the rest of the team. We did a good job filling all our real holes (top4 D, forward depth, prospect pool), so now it's time to nitpick and think of where do we need to turn "decent" into something better. And because of the ripple effect it's best to look at improving the top6/4/starter. And he just seems to be the odd man out compared to the other 10 top players IMO.