Speculation: Avs biggest holes

[Meeqs]

After this previous offseason the Avs have fewer holes than they have had at any point in the past 10 years. Our defense is shored up short term and long, our prospect pool is dramatically better and the Avs finally have a healthy cap structure.

With all of this optimism I wanted to start a thread discussing what current holes the Avs may possess. Here are some of the ones I can think of:

1) A winger for Duchene. If you have been an Avs fan during the last 5 or so years you know that when Duchene has a winger he has chemistry with he is almost an unstoppable offensive force and when he doesn't he is very prone to becoming frustrated and going on long slumps. In depth analysis has also suggested that specifically a LW he works well with would be ideal. With RoR, PaP, Flash and others all moved out of town I think this is currently the Avs biggest hole.

2) 2-way/defensive minded forwards. When Stastny was moved no one expected his absence to be felt as much as it was in the 2014-15 season. The reason was the Avs lost their defensive zone center and had no replacement, which forced them to move RoR back to center and threw the entire offensive structure out of whack. Now that RoR is gone how will it impact next season? The Avs look to replace him by committee with much improved depth over last season. Having a competent Dcore and acquired players like Comeau and Grigs along side Mackinnon and Duchene being a year older will have to be the void. The question is will it be enough? Also is Bleakley an eventual solution and how does he fit into all of this?

3) Young top 6 wingers to eventually replace Iggy and Tangs. Rantanen is was a huge pick up this year in this department so with him and Gabe the Avs will still have 2 spots they will eventually need to fill and this is an area of improvement for the Avs.

So those are just my quick thoughts and I'd love to hear what you guys have to say.

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[InjuredChoker]

top pairing LD, i'd add.

don't mind beauch acquistion but i don't think he is solution to #2 LD spot. in the future that spot may be filled with zadorov or bigras.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

I'm bothered the most by our bottom 6 on offense. Not enough skill or experience. I just dont feel comfortable having Grigorenko there or Rantanen etc. We better hope there's no injuries to our top-6!

 

[Avsboy]

Avs need more high end forwards, especially for the long term. As of right now only four players - Landeskog, Duchene, Mackinnon, and Iginla - are undisputed top 6 players. Soderberg, Grigorenko, Tanguay are not the best options. Iginla and Tanguay are probably retiring soon so Avs would have to add at least on top 6 player on top of Rantanen working out in the Top 6.

 

[Meeqs]

top pairing LD, i'd add.

don't mind beauch acquistion but i don't think he is solution to #2 LD spot. in the future that spot may be filled with zadorov or bigras.

I think with both Bigras and Zadorov's play to date and potential I don't actually consider that a need. I'd be very surprised if either of them don't end up top 4 Dmen and along with Barrie and EJ that is a great group.

The reason I say that is because it wouldn't make sense to go out and get another LHD for more than 3 years because by then both of the aforementioned will be NHL ready, which is most likely why the Avs got Beauch, who while old was still the Ducks top pairing guy last year.

 

[Meeqs]

I'm bothered the most by our bottom 6 on offense. Not enough skill or experience. I just dont feel comfortable having Grigorenko there or Rantanen etc. We better hope there's no injuries to our top-6!

For me Grigs is the biggest X factor on the Avs. I don't expect Rantanen to be in the NHL next year although that could change with camp. While I am more cautious than optimistic if Grigs plays well it will be huge for the Avs and if he busts it could cause a lot of issues.

I really love everberg as a bottom 6 player long term for the Avs, he needs to develop some offense and I'd love if he became a solid PKer but he is still young and has time to grow. I also don't mind Comeau or Mitchell(just not at 3c) in the bottom 6 either.

Overall though I agree with you and this was an issue I targeted with the 2 way forward situation as I think it is the most likely area that would improve this issue.

 

[Meeqs]

Avs need more high end forwards, especially for the long term. As of right now only four players - Landeskog, Duchene, Mackinnon, and Iginla - are undisputed top 6 players. Soderberg, Grigorenko, Tanguay are not the best options. Iginla and Tanguay are probably retiring soon so Avs would have to add at least on top 6 player on top of Rantanen working out in the Top 6.

Tangs is absolutely a top 6 guy, its just line chemistry that would drop him out of the top 6. Both him and Gabe were top 20 LW scoring last year. Although I think winger prospects are a big area of focus over the next few years.

Although already having 9, 29, and 92 is huge. Add Rantanen to that and I'm not sure how much more young talent we will really need to add to that. With the Dynamic of 2 power forward wingers and 2 elite 1st line centers it wouldn't be a stretch to see a guy like Bleakley(if his skating and fitness improves) or possibly Greer slotting into that spot eventually.

A sniper prospect would go a long long way for the Avs though.

 

[tucker3434]

Avs need more high end forwards, especially for the long term. As of right now only four players - Landeskog, Duchene, Mackinnon, and Iginla - are undisputed top 6 players. Soderberg, Grigorenko, Tanguay are not the best options. Iginla and Tanguay are probably retiring soon so Avs would have to add at least on top 6 player on top of Rantanen working out in the Top 6.

How is Tanguay not top 6? I know he's old, but he had 55 points last year, tied for 3rd on the Avs.

But we do need some better winger depth both in the NHL and in the prospect pool. After Iggy and Tanguay retire, we'll be pretty weak there. Maybe Grigorenko and/or Bleackley are good enough an can transition, but all our eggs shouldn't be in that basket.

 

[Freudian]

There are no immediate holes and two years from now, the team will look different through trades, prospects developing better/worse than expected and free agency.

Players that are still here from the team Roy and Sakic inherited just over two years ago:

Duchene
Mitchell
Landeskog
McLeod
Bordeleau
(Elliott)
EJ
Varlamov

Holes open and close all the time. Within 12 months both Stastny and O'Reilly were gone, making Avs go from a team with a wealth of riches down the middle to a team that have some question marks there. In two years time Tanguay and Iginla will probably be gone but then Rantanen/Bleackley/some UFA might fill the spot effortlessly.

 

[henchman21]

The holes in the lineup now are really top 6 LW for Duchene, #2C, and a #3C. All of those could be filled by youth and not really be holes by the end of the season. Soderberg will probably be adequate, but really should be the #3C... so one spot is probably filled. Beauch is probably good enough on the top pairing for this year. Long-term the top pairing LD is still out there and a top 6 RW spot also appears.

Long-term I would rank them:
Top 6 LW
Top 2 LD
#2C
Top 6 RW
#3C
Top 4 LD
Top 6 RW (if MacK moves back to center)

In a perfect world... Grigs could take one of the wing spots (I'd prefer him at LW, but if he does well defensively I'd be good with him at center). Zadorov, Bigras, or Geertsen could take the 2 top 4 LD spots. Rantanen becomes a top 6 RW. MacK finds his groove at center pushing Soderberg to #3C. Then only a void exists at a top 6 wing spot... maybe that is Rads.

I really doubt that all happens, but that seems to be the basic plan here (maybe with the exception of Radulov). If the youth pans out, this team won't have many holes come October 2016. If the majority of the youth doesn't work out... well the team will struggle again. Lots of risk/reward in the roster.

 

[DarioinDenver]

There are no immediate holes and two years from now, the team will look different through trades, prospects developing better/worse than expected and free agency.

Players that are still here from the team Roy and Sakic inherited just over two years ago:

Duchene
Mitchell
Landeskog
McLeod
Bordeleau
(Elliott)
EJ
Varlamov

Holes open and close all the time. Within 12 months both Stastny and O'Reilly were gone, making Avs go from a team with a wealth of riches down the middle to a team that have some question marks there. In two years time Tanguay and Iginla will probably be gone but then Rantanen/Bleackley/some UFA might fill the spot effortlessly.

I agree. I still think the Avs need some solid middle-aged NHL level defensemen. The depth on D is predicated on a lot of youth, some very old and experienced D and then a bunch of middle-aged guys that are kind of a reach for NHL level play. If EJ gets hurt what's your depth on the right side? Stuart and Buech are providing valuable experience but experience is only respected in the room as long as it can perform and they are definitely on their last deals. Redmond and EJ are 27 and getting in to that area of being in their prime and having some veteran experience. In a perfect world the Avs would have a mix of Sekera-aged D men. Basically the modern equivilent of 2001 DeVries (28), Aaron Miller (29) and Jon Klemm(31) to give that gravitas to your blue line.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Grigorenko really is the wild card. He could be anything from a 3C, extra winger to 2C, 2LW and that answer will really determine what holes there really are. I'm not exactly expecting a second line player but he has just as good of a shot as any other of our "unproven" players to get there. If he doesn't work out at all it doesn't really hurt us, we weren't counting on having him at all anyway.

We go need one more good young winger. Rantanen is one and Grigorenko could be one (though my money is him on staying a center). Bleackley is one too though I like him better as a center as well. I feel like perception on him is getting skewed. Too much hyperbole on the internet. Of course it's best to not pencil any prospect in although I can't imagine Rantanen not contributing in some capacity.

Duchene needs someone who can think the game at his level on one side, on the other is fine if he just has a trigger man. He works fine with Iginla but I wouldn't say they have exceptional chemistry.

We do need to solidify the bottom 6 a bit, hopefully this year does that although I think we have to get through one more year of Bordy, Winchester, Cliche to truly get to what it's going to look like.

I don't think it's so much we have holes in personnel, we have more question marks in roles. Who is going to be our standard bottom 6? Who are our long term top 6? Where do our prospects fit in?

I think we have enough bodies on D. We will have to see who can be more of a number one, if any. But that will take a few years. Interesting that the "next wave" of our D prospects are righties (Wood and Meloche). We were never going to get high quality middle age D, that's been the issue forever. You can't just go and get those guys because nobody sells that type of player. If they do it's because they are deficient for one reason or another. It might be taking in some risk to put Zadorov in that role but he's at least of high quality. The only alternative is putting lesser there and hoping for the best long term. Right now I'm fine with gambling on a bit of upside but we really don't have much choice. Noreau is easily the call up on the right side. And well, Elliott too if you want to ride that carnival again.

 

[Pokecheque]

The biggest hole is still on the defensive side of things. Things have, on paper at least, improved a sizable amount IMO. While there is no longer an elite shutdown forward, there are more two-way players and that is preferable. However, this team still doesn't have an elite shutdown defender. I'm not about to complain about what EJ has brought this team, but his value is more in how he facilitates offense (which in turn helps defensively) than his ability to take on the opposition's best players. In that regard both he and Hejda were in a bit over their heads. Hopefully Beauchemin helps a great deal in that regard. Same with Zadorov. But overall Roy still lacks that defensive forward and top-flight elite defender that would make his job soooo much easier. It cannot be overstated how much a guy like Stephane Yelle made things easier for guys like Sakic and Forsberg. Same goes with Adam Foote.

I suppose you could also say the team still lacks that elite scoring winger in the Tarasenko/Kane vein, but that seems a bit overly nitpicky, especially in the cap era.

But I will agree that this team looks more complete and balanced than any Avs team since their contending days. Very, very excited about this upcoming season.

 

[Stories]

Everyone's posts seems to suggest we have multiple holes and are not as whole as we want to be.

-Where does Grigorenko fit in? Top 6 offensive role? Bottom 6 defensive role with some offense?

-Do solid bottom 6 guys like Winchester come back to health and contribute or will blackholes like Cliche play 80 games?

-How do Zadorov and Bigras develop and fill in at the bottom 4 of the defense? Will others step up to fill the holes? It'll probably be a top 3 heavy lifting with Johnson, Beauch, and Barrie playing a lot with others filling in here and there

 

[Avs71]

According to what seems like many on the main boards, a #1 center, #1 goalie, #1 defenceman. Can add a #2 defenceman and a top four defenceman to that list as well.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

According to what seems like many on the main boards, a #1 center, #1 goalie, #1 defenceman. Can add a #2 defenceman and a top four defenceman to that list as well.

They are saying we are missing those things? What`?

 

[tigervixxxen]

I'm still dumbfounded I read in an article (not one of the big media at least, thank god) that we failed this offseason because we didn't upgrade in goal and they didn't mean back up. WHAAT?

Like I said, I don't think we have many holes per se, just more questions of where people are going to fit in.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

For me, no contest our biggest hole is a legit #3 shutdown C.

If for some reason Soda gets bumped from the #2C spot, then fine, our 3C issue is solved, but as it stands neither Malkin nor Greg are capable of doing any sort of heavy lifting in the defensive end and should never be asked to do so.

I still think our D could use some help, but as long as our big-4 get the most ice time and stay relatively healthy, the other scrubs won't be on the ice bumbling around like a bunch of dunderheads costing us as many points in the standings and our blood pressures won't be so high watching them fumble weak passes and get caught out of position.

 

[AW8]

Biggest hole? ... Berras 5 hole?

But in reality after future top 6 wingers,

It's the ??? on the talent ie bigs zad grig rant... Do they pan out? If yes then few holes if no, then lots of holes

 

[The Kingslayer]

The biggest hole is still on the defensive side of things. Things have, on paper at least, improved a sizable amount IMO. While there is no longer an elite shutdown forward, there are more two-way players and that is preferable. However, this team still doesn't have an elite shutdown defender. I'm not about to complain about what EJ has brought this team, but his value is more in how he facilitates offense (which in turn helps defensively) than his ability to take on the opposition's best players. In that regard both he and Hejda were in a bit over their heads. Hopefully Beauchemin helps a great deal in that regard. Same with Zadorov. But overall Roy still lacks that defensive forward and top-flight elite defender that would make his job soooo much easier. It cannot be overstated how much a guy like Stephane Yelle made things easier for guys like Sakic and Forsberg. Same goes with Adam Foote.

I suppose you could also say the team still lacks that elite scoring winger in the Tarasenko/Kane vein, but that seems a bit overly nitpicky, especially in the cap era.

But I will agree that this team looks more complete and balanced than any Avs team since their contending days. Very, very excited about this upcoming season.

Losing Stephane Yelle in the Drury trade really screwed us for many years. Our PK went straight to hell after Yelle was dealt.

 

[henchman21]

Grigs isn't poor defensively. Judging by what I have read on the board... people will be surprised by his abilities in that area, especially if plays with some fire. He isn't ROR, but there is a good amount of upside on the defensive side of the puck. If Roy can get his compete level up, he will be a solid two way player. That is a big if, but the kid understands defensive hockey more that people give him credit for.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Losing Stephane Yelle in the Drury trade really screwed us for many years. Our PK went straight to hell after Yelle was dealt.

Same thing will happen with Cliche.

 

[The Shermanator]

Biggest hole? ... Berras 5 hole?

But in reality after future top 6 wingers,

It's the ??? on the talent ie bigs zad grig rant... Do they pan out? If yes then few holes if no, then lots of holes

Came to make this joke. But instead I'll laugh at yours.

HAHA!

 

[AslanRH]

Avs need more high end forwards, especially for the long term. As of right now only four players - Landeskog, Duchene, Mackinnon, and Iginla - are undisputed top 6 players. Soderberg, Grigorenko, Tanguay are not the best options. Iginla and Tanguay are probably retiring soon so Avs would have to add at least on top 6 player on top of Rantanen working out in the Top 6.

My thoughts almost to a tee.

Short term, a LW (preferrably for Duchene-Iggy line)
Long term, a couple potential high scoring forwards to replace Tangs and Iggy at least 1 of which is a sniper type (Rantanen likely fills 1 of those)

 

[The Kingslayer]

I'm still dumbfounded I read in an article (not one of the big media at least, thank god) that we failed this offseason because we didn't upgrade in goal and they didn't mean back up. WHAAT?

Like I said, I don't think we have many holes per se, just more questions of where people are going to fit in.

Wow pray to Pesci that that person has not and will not procreate.