Confirmed with Link: Avs acquire Casey Mittelstadt for Bo Byram

[Foppa2118]

I don't think I've seen anyone state that Bo is not talented, etc. But his play this year has been subpar, both as an Av and seemingly with Buffalo, too. That doesn't mean he can't pull it together, but right now he's showing why he wasn't ahead of Toews on our depth list.

There's been lots of posts questioning his talent this year. Often phrased like "he's not as talented as he thinks he is" or "he's not talented enough to play the way he does."

His play with Buffalo hasn't been subpar either. Buffalo fans are very happy with him.

 

[S E P H]

I've watched most of the Sabres games after the trade and both Dahlin and Power have been substantially worse defensively than Byram.

Sabres fans outside of this echo chamber seem happy with Bo's defensive game. It was the opposite of here, where a lot of them didn't like the trade at first, and now most seem to be happy with it.

That's based entirely on how he's played, and you know it's been good, because it had to covercome the bias of really liking Mitts and not liking the trade. They were primed to not like him, but most seem to really like him now.

Lots of comments to the effect below.

"He looks more like a two-way beast to me who is also a treat to watch offensively. I wasnt happy with the trade at first, but I was always intrigued by Byram's potential. I'm even more intrigued by him now."

"As someone who was pissed when this trade happened, Byram has been really good."

"Wasn't to happy about that trade. Well, maybe I was wrong at twice?"

"I gotta be honest, I wasn't thrilled with this trade when it was announced......But after these few games, I am starting to think/admit maybe Byram is a player I didn't know we needed... Kid looks phenomenal!"

"I was in the Didn't Like The Trade club........This could be one of the best units in the league next year if they can stay healthy. Glad to be wrong... again."

"I was so upset we traded Mittelstadt but apologies to Bowen Byram, I was not familiar with your game."

I get that the majority on here want Byram to succeed and still love him as a player and person, but damn...mate, you might be realistically reaching "Misery" esque levels here.

 

[Foppa2118]

I get that the majority on here want Byram to succeed and still love him as a player and person, but damn...mate, you might be realistically reaching "Misery" esque levels here.

You're missing the point entirely. This post doesn't have anything to do with the trade.

I'm just trying to counter the false narrative that is being pushed that he hasn't played well for Buffalo, by pointing out that an overwhelming amount of Sabres fans feel the opposite.

 

[lionsDen]

Byram has had hits before that were kinda questionable, and he's always played a chippy game. That's why he gets targeted so much too. I think as much as anything, Buffalo's lack of structure is exposing how bad he is right now defensively. With the Avs, he was still bad defensively, but overall there was usually a good partner or forwards helping keep things in line. Whereas in Buffalo, there is nobody there to cover up the mistakes he's making. Having Joker and Byram on a pairing is also purely asking for disaster... neither is able to defend worth a crap right now. Byram and Dahlin together hamstrings Dahlin's abilities.

IMO two things really need to happen for Byram to succeed next season. First and most importantly, Buffalo needs a better coach with a lot more structure to the system. Second, Byram needs to really key on the defensemen he needs to be at this level. He's not purely talented enough to be an elite offensive guy at the level needed to get away with the mistakes... so focus in on being a much better defensive guy who can be relied on for 22-24 minutes. The talent is there... the IQ/mindset has to come around.

On Fatty here... I hope the Nashville game was just a bad game. I thought it was his worst as an Av.

where can I dig into numbers game by game if at all possible.
Appreciated

 

[henchman21]

where can I dig into numbers game by game if at all possible.
Appreciated

NHL or Natural Stat Trick are the easiest IMO... but any of the sites that datamine can usually get you there.

 

[S E P H]

You're missing the point entirely. This post doesn't have anything to do with the trade.

I'm just trying to counter the false narrative that is being pushed that he hasn't played well for Buffalo, by pointing out that an overwhelming amount of Sabres fans feel the opposite.

My post was a joke and was not meant to be taken seriously, but, to me, it is on the level of fundamentalism. Thinking Byram played amazing hockey, not really in his career, but this season is straight-up nonsense if that is what you believe - he was awful this year no grey area whatsoever.

 

[Foppa2118]

My post was a joke and was not meant to be taken seriously, but, to me, it is on the level of fundamentalism. Thinking Byram played amazing hockey, not really in his career, but this season is straight-up nonsense if that is what you believe - he was awful this year no grey area whatsoever.

Was your total strawman implying I thought Byram played "amazing", let alone played well, when I've acknowledged all year that he hasn't played well, meant to be taken seriously or as a joke?

How did you even draw that conclusion from me saying Dahlin and Power have played worse defensviely in the games I've seen post deadline?

This is why it's important to make counterpoints on this subject, because so little of the discourse is accurate, and not hyperbole.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

There's been lots of posts questioning his talent this year. Often phrased like "he's not as talented as he thinks he is" or "he's not talented enough to play the way he does."

His play with Buffalo hasn't been subpar either. Buffalo fans are very happy with him.

Fancy stats suggest that Byram has been sub par in his own end.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Amazing how a defenseman who's supposedly not good defensively, not talented, and doesn't have a high IQ, was drafted 4th overall, played the way he did in the NHL playoffs, and somehow still has a chance to become a great defenseman.

Almost like people just say things that aren't true and then hedge their bets.

I mean he hasn't been that great defensively the last 2 years. He is highly talented, but talent only gets you so far in the NHL. Byram has a ton of talent but will need to adjust his game a little bit at the NHL level, which is fine. That sort of thing happens all time time. It's not hedging their bets its just calling it as it is. I mean shit similar things were said about Mack before his breakout, as in he has the talent to be a franchise talent but he has to find out how to utilize it to be at his most effective.

 

[S E P H]

Was your total strawman implying I thought Byram played "amazing", let alone played well, when I've acknowledged all year that he hasn't played well, meant to be taken seriously or as a joke?

How did you even draw that conclusion from me saying Dahlin and Power have played worse defensviely in the games I've seen post deadline?

This is why it's important to make counterpoints on this subject, because so little of the discourse is accurate, and not hyperbole.

I wasn't talking specifically about one post, the last five pages of whatever you've been posting have all fit within a specific narrative of defending him at all costs. But again, my post was a complete satire based on what I've noticed in all your posts, not to get in a debate with strawmen, I never once wanted to debate. I have no idea if you think Byram has played well this season, that point was more based on an educated guess considering how much you're defending him, until this day.

 

[Foppa2118]

I wasn't talking specifically about one post, the last five pages of whatever you've been posting have all fit within a specific narrative of defending him at all costs. But again, my post was a complete satire based on what I've noticed in all your posts, not to get in a debate with strawmen, I never once wanted to debate. I have no idea if you think Byram has played well this season, that point was more based on an educated guess considering how much you're defending him, until this day.

Then you should address the things said specifically, not assume what I'm saying, turn that into a completely different discussion, and imply I think he's played amazing.

The post you responded to was simply agreeing that Power has been worse defensively, and also that Dahlin has IMO. I didn't say anything about how Byram played in Colorado, or anything about the trade. Your own bias caused you to jump to conclusions.

The last few pages have been me trying to show people what Sabres fans have said about him, because people keep saying he's played bad based solely on analytics. I have intentionally tried to leave my own opinion out of it as much as possible, because I'm biased myself.

Either way, it shouldn't be a big deal for you to have to read a post every once in a while that disagrees with the majority. No need to say a different opinion is Misery esque or make strawman arguments. I read about 30 posts a day here I disagree strongly with and say nothing, including on this very topic.

 

[S E P H]

Either way, it shouldn't be a big deal for you to have to read a post every once in a while that disagrees with the majority. No need to say a different opinion is Misery esque or make strawman arguments. I read about 30 posts a day here I disagree strongly with and say nothing, including on this very topic.

Post #885 is a perfect example of Annie Wilkes. Again, you have a right to say/write whatever you want, but it is very, very strange to me that people are willing to die on a hill all the way to Dante's nine circles of hell for Byram. For a bloke who only spent four-ish years with us and played in only 48.5% of all the games within that time frame. A time frame where he looked good, bad, and ugly all rolled up. It is very, very strange to me and I truly do not understand it.

 

[dahrougem2]

Mittelstadt has looked poor in back to back games now.

I really hope the speed and intensity of the playoffs doesn't render him useless. I recall him being a big game player in the world juniors but that was years ago.

Here's to hoping he gets back on track in Minnesota and Edmonton.

 

[Foppa2118]

Post #885 is a perfect example of Annie Wilkes. Again, you have a right to say/write whatever you want, but it is very, very strange to me that people are willing to die on a hill all the way to Dante's nine circles of hell for Byram. For a bloke who only spent four-ish years with us and played in only 48.5% of all the games within that time frame. A time frame where he looked good, bad, and ugly all rolled up. It is very, very strange to me and I truly do not understand it.

It's very strange to me that you're so upset that only 99.9% of the commentary about Byram is negative instead of 100%, that you have to take issue with a few posts that make up 0.1% of the commentary.

Also very strange to me that instead of addressing the points I made about Power and Dahlin playing worse defensively, you resorted to a straw man saying I thought Byram played amazing this year, when I've said all year he hasn't played well. Then just glossed over it and acted like it was no big deal.

Also strange that you went back 500+ posts to bring up a post about calling people Byram bunnies (not even me) even though he's not on the team anymore.

Also strange that you keep trying to insinuate that I'm defending Byram's play this year, when you know I'm not, and clearly I'm just citing Sabres fans opinions to show he hasn't played as badly as others have said AFTER the trade.

If you think your attempts to bully me into being quiet about my opinion will work, you got the wrong guy.

That's fine, it's a discussion board for a reason where we can exchange ideas.

 

[Doohickie]

Mittelstadt has looked poor in back to back games now.

I really hope the speed and intensity of the playoffs doesn't render him useless. I recall him being a big game player in the world juniors but that was years ago.

Here's to hoping he gets back on track in Minnesota and Edmonton.

Casey will be fine.

He's actually scoring at a lower rate with CO (.64 PPG) than with BUF (.76 PPG); I would expect a little uptick out of him.

 

[niwotsblessing]

Can we please have separate threads for these two guys?

 

[henchman21]

Mittelstadt has looked poor in back to back games now.

I really hope the speed and intensity of the playoffs doesn't render him useless. I recall him being a big game player in the world juniors but that was years ago.

Here's to hoping he gets back on track in Minnesota and Edmonton.

I don't think he was outright bad in this game, he just didn't flash positively. Outside Lehky, he's was arguably the best forward. That line needs a legit finisher though. You got two guys who can work to create chances, but won't finish in Lehky and Mitts... Duhaime is not the guy to pot chances.

 

[NorthernAvsFan]

I don't think he was outright bad in this game, he just didn't flash positively. Outside Lehky, he's was arguably the best forward. That line needs a legit finisher though. You got two guys who can work to create chances, but won't finish in Lehky and Mitts... Duhaime is not the guy to pot chances.

If only there was someone available to fill that role:

 

[Doohickie]

Can we please have separate threads for these two guys?

They will forever be entwined.

 

[henchman21]

They will forever be entwined.

I'd hope for both of their sakes that eventually fans relent on this.

 

[Avsfan1921]

I think Mitts has been merely “ok” since coming to Denver. He consistently makes some nice little plays and flashes some defensive acumen but also lapses from time to time. Some of this is likely him continuing to adjust to a new team.

Still, I think it was a worthwhile trade and we are a better, more balanced team now than previously. I just hope there’s a bit more there come playoff time.

 

[Perratrooper]

I think Mitts has been merely “ok” since coming to Denver. He consistently makes some nice little plays and flashes some defensive acumen but also lapses from time to time. Some of this is likely him continuing to adjust to a new team.

Still, I think it was a worthwhile trade and we are a better, more balanced team now than previously. I just hope there’s a bit more there come playoff time.

I’m probably in the minority, but I was hoping for more from Mitts. He’s all around fine, but he seldom drives play imo. Hopefully that’s in part to adjusting to linemates and in fairness to him, we haven’t exactly placed him with ideal linemates. I just was hoping for a more of a noticeable impact offensively or defensively, rather than a flash here or there. He seems like a player who can play 2C, but you’ll always want to upgrade on him. Hopefully I’m wrong and he turns out to be an elite 2C that has a steady, but great impact. However I hope his next contract falls in the $6m range (+/-500k) rather than the $7.5-8.5m range we’ve seen centers sign at lately.

 

[Avsfan1921]

I’m probably in the minority, but I was hoping for more from Mitts. He’s all around fine, but he seldom drives play imo. Hopefully that’s in part to adjusting to linemates and in fairness to him, we haven’t exactly placed him with ideal linemates. I just was hoping for a more of a noticeable impact offensively or defensively, rather than a flash here or there. He seems like a player who can play 2C, but you’ll always want to upgrade on him. Hopefully I’m wrong and he turns out to be an elite 2C that has a steady, but great impact. However I hope his next contract falls in the $6m range (+/-500k) rather than the $7.5-8.5m range we’ve seen centers sign at lately.

Yeah, I hope for more as well. You nailed what I was trying to get at in wanting more shift to shift impact. Hoping it’s still an adjustment period and that will come around.

 

[dahrougem2]

We know players take a long time to get used to the Avs system sans Sean Walker who was born to play for Jared Bednar.

Mittelstadt will take some time. I think my expectations are a bit skewed because has looked so good in some games, then invisible in others.

 

[The Abusement Park]

We know players take a long time to get used to the Avs system sans Sean Walker who was born to play for Jared Bednar.

Mittelstadt will take some time. I think my expectations are a bit skewed because has looked so good in some games, then invisible in others.

Yup. Every player who's been added at the TDL especially has always had growing pains. Never forget Mansons horror show of a run to end the season after he joined. But by the playoffs the guys are usually adapted and ready to go. And even then he's been good. If he gets noticeably better from here than that's even better.