Post-Game Talk: Avs 5 - Jets 2, Series tied at 1

[SensibleGuy]

I am seriously concerned that the core of this team does not have what it takes to handle the pressure and elevated desperation of the playoffs.

Outside of a handful of players we have an awful lot of passengers and shrinking violets.

yup, I've got similar concerns. I think we get a lot of answers in game 3. It looks at this point like one team had another level to go to in the playoffs and the other was maxed out already in the regular season and has nowhere left to take it.

 

[Flair Hay]

The Jets really needed to stranglehold this game after the 4 minute kill and Fefe goal but it seemed that if went the other way from that moment.

Yeah it's true. Got to give them credit, they pushed back right away. That Helle goal really was a killer though. Different 3rd period without it.

 

[tbcwpg]

This is because neither of them carry the puck though, ehlers is asked to do all of the heavy lifting of moving the puck on that line.

I do think Ehlers was tripped prior to that 4th goal, but he needs to get off his ass and make a play instead of sitting there and trying to do a back hand toe drag while on his ass.

If Ehlers is going to carry the puck into the zone, though, he needs to make way better decisions. I think he's getting more stick because he's the one making the misplays but if he's going to be the driver, he needs to drive.

In the game I was watching, he scored the opening goal. Perhaps you were watching some other game.

I'm not sure I saw him after that.

 

[Keystone]

Here’s hoping losing Bones ability to line match, will actually have a positive influence on the game. While our game is built on defence first, all I have witnessed is a panicked fearful form of it.
Toffoli needs to sit. Stanley need to sit. Helle needs to improve in game 3 or sit. The boys need to win a few more 50/50 puck battles which I think Perfetti was doing well after his demotion.
I don’t get all the fancy stats, but I do see the top line working, playing with some fire, and getting chances. They aren’t the problem. To me at the end of the day, we only have one Dman that can be relied on to transition the puck and that hurts us badly and it has to be rectified over the offseason with a top 6 player getting shipped.
But hope is not lost cause this is a good team. Go Jets Go

 

[jetsfan15]

Ehlers needs to find his production. The jets aren't a top heavy team, they need production from every line. His 0 - 0 through 2 games is problematic.

Agreed. Our top line has been good — not gonna complain about 81-55-13 this series so far. Frankly I wonder if Bones was overthinking trying to match up the Lowry line as much as he could vs Colorado’s top line. Interestingly we had lots of success in Colorado when Bednar matched up his top line against our top line.

In any event, our second line (27-23-73) has to be better, I think they will have some better games. But none of our lines have that top heavy talent that Colorado has, and there will be nights where one of our top-2 lines may not score. All four of our lines have to have enough scoring ability to give ourselves a chance to make up the difference. Yes, I know Gus scored in game 2, so maybe people won’t agree with this, but I do wonder if it wouldn’t be better to have 91 on that 4th line statistically — odds are he scores more than Gus, that’s my take. People will look at our goaltending not having been as good as it can be — I look at how we only scored 2 goals last night and that just isn’t going to get you the W’s against Colorado on a consistent basis. You can say Helly didn’t play that puck well, but at the end of the day we scored 2 goals and I just don’t think this was a 2-1 W waiting to happen.

I really thought Stanley struggled in both games, I can’t imagine he gets a start in game 3. Pionk struggled too, but lets be real, Bones isn’t sitting him so there’s no point debating Pionk being replaced in the lineup lol.

So that’s my take: second line needs to do better. Let’s keep the odds as high as possible that all 4 lines could contribute. 91 in on that 4th line (the Perfetti-Namestnikov-Iaffalo combo I think was our second line earlier in the season and did quite well if I’m not mistaken). And Miller in for Stanley.

 

[wpgallday1960]

Helle shouldn't escape criticism for his play in the first two games but he is the presumptive Vezina winner this year and the Jets will ride or die with him in net, Not saying it's right or wrong but that's just the way it is. As for the rest of the roster there needs to be changes for game three.

Helly and Ehlers wore the goat horns last night (a horn each?). Even on the 4th Avs goal, Helly has to stop,that considering his gaffe caused the 3rd goal. Once in a while a goalie has to bail out his teammates when they screw up and giving up that 4th goal was just as devastating as the 3rd.

That being said, I’ll be optimistic that Helly will return to form in Denver and the Jets will win a game there.

 

[abax44]

I think you want it to be right of the line.

Ok, that's what I thought (not sure why I said middle, it's clearly not middle).

I’d suggest getting Perfetti in the line up, and switch Toffoli with Names. Gets more speed on the 2nd line, and Names has been solid so far, giving more support for Ehlers.

Just make the 4th the 2nd. Boom, done.

 

[surixon]

I only know how to read final scores so does this mean best player at the top and worst at the bottom? If t hats the case we aren't winning this series if Gus is the best player on the ice and the names at the bottom stay at the bottom.

Game score is heavily based on production.

Toffoli is a high end goal scorer. If this management and coaching staff wanted him they should have had a plan with how to use him. Clearly they did not because he's been invisible out there

Tofolli has 2 goals in his last 14 playoff games and 7 in his last 36. He certainly hasn't been a high end goal scorer in the playoffs. We didn't need him at the time and it's looking more apparent now. What we needed was a upgrade at RD.

 

[Channelcat]

I'm actually happy to be heading out in the road.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

If Ehlers is going to carry the puck into the zone, though, he needs to make way better decisions. I think he's getting more stick because he's the one making the misplays but if he's going to be the driver, he needs to drive.

Don't disagree with that, but its easy to be invisible when you're not asked to really do anything with the puck. Ehlers will never be invisible, I think it's why he is a divisive player. His bad plays are way more noticeable because he carries the puck probably more than anyone on the team.

 

[King Woodballs]

f***ing embarrassing

 

[Channelcat]

Don't disagree with that, but its easy to be invisible when you're not asked to really do anything with the puck. Ehlers will never be invisible, I think it's why he is a divisive player. His bad plays are way more noticeable because he carries the puck probably more than anyone on the team.

Him and Pionk both. They're high impact players. Guys like Ovechkin have it figured out, don't get involved in the play (unless you have an open net to shoot at)

 

[Bob E]

Game score is heavily based on production.

Tofolli has 2 goals in his last 14 playoff games and 7 in his last 36. He certainly hasn't been a high end goal scorer in the playoffs. We didn't need him at the time and it's looking more apparent now. What we needed was an upgrade at RD.

Absolutely correct. 100%.

 

[DRW204]

Don't disagree with that, but its easy to be invisible when you're not asked to really do anything with the puck. Ehlers will never be invisible, I think it's why he is a divisive player. His bad plays are way more noticeable because he carries the puck probably more than anyone on the team.

sure, but he+his line still isn't producing. through the 2-GP the 2nd line hasn't scored a goal, and the trio of fwds are combined at the bottom (or near) at the rate of 5v5 shots/chances generated.

ehlers historically has not produced in the POs. since 17-18 of players with similar GP there isn't another player with a larger regular-season to PO PPG drop off than him.

 

[JetsUK]

Don't disagree with that, but its easy to be invisible when you're not asked to really do anything with the puck. Ehlers will never be invisible, I think it's why he is a divisive player. His bad plays are way more noticeable because he carries the puck probably more than anyone on the team.

Yep.

I think that's one of the reasons he works well with Names and (usually) Mono -- two strong puck carriers and a very smart positional player with top-end playmaking and scoring.

I get that T is a proven goalscorer -- but he (to some extent) and Miller seem to bear out the dictum that team fit can trump skill/ track record when it comes to playoff adds. He's trending as Hayes 2.0.

Agree with above that hard-matching seems to go against the "We play our game, not their game" ethos that carried the team to first-half dominance. Also not sure JMo is best used as a shutdown D, since he's also the team's main offensive driver from the back.

Too much neutering of talent with some deployments, maybe.

I don't doubt at all the team's drive and desire to win this. I do think coaching needs to support that with smart decisions that optimize available talent.

Anyway -- time to get a win or two in the mile high city.

 

[surixon]

This is the recent playoff production from the players we have on out second line:

Ehlers 5 points including 4 goals in last 13
Toffoli 2 goals and 5 points in last 14
Monohan 2 goals and 8 points in last 12

That doesn't come remotely close to cutting it. We need far more from them to make a run.

 

[imec]

Fire Chevy! Fire Maurice! Tight turns! Trade Pavelec! Shutup Sawyer! F*ck Vegas! (did I miss anything?)

 

[LowLefty]

I'm certainly not blaming the second line's offence on the first line's lack thereof. I'm just pointing out that in order to limit the bleeding caused by having 81-55-13 together (by putting them with 5-4 (which honestly is a mistake, IMO)) and putting your strongest pairing in 44-2 with 62-17-22 to matchup against MacKinnon, you're left with that line being paired with Stanley (who was pretty much just a hitting machine tonight) and Samberg on his offhand.

And then if the puck gets frozen in the OZ, Bowness just throws out his top line instead, or the Lowry line if COL puts out MacKinnon instead - leaving them with only two faceoffs in the offensive zone the entire night? Do we really think Ehlers can make up for the other four players on the ice lack of ability to transition the puck through two bluelines?

Obviously, they didn't create much chances for themselves, either - all I'm saying is that their deployment isn't really ideal. They have no rhythm or flow.

You've done a nice job of laying out our depth (especially on D) and how it impacts our ability to create offense -
But I'm not sure there is a solution in there anywhere.
44-2 are going to play the big minutes which happen to be the Mac minutes -
5-4 are next in line and will support our scoring line -
And 64-54 are what is left to support our "2nd" line - and neither of these guys will provide much in the way of offense. Stan's doing what he has been asked to do and as per the narrative, 54 struggles on the right side. IMO, a lot of that is simply the fact that he struggles - he's making mistakes that have nothing to do with the side or the ice he is playing. His biggest blunders are simply moving the puck under pressure - with the puck on his forehand. Stan's in the same boat - the Aves are very good with speed / pressure and our third paring are struggling with that - no surprise really.

In the end, it comes back to my first sentence above - our depth on D is not great and they have replied on a lot of support during the season, IOW's, when we played a more defensive 5 man game. If we can't get back to that (or at least attempt to play that game), our blueline is exposed (especially against excellent possession / cycle / rush teams like the Aves).

So, lets pull Stan and put in Miller / Smitty - I'm fine with that but I don't think it matters - because if that second line is going to continue playing the way they are (getting beat to almost every puck - or losing battles when they do get there), it won't matter. That's a vet line that should be able to adjust their game.
I'm in the camp that thinks we need to play a more conservative game - slow things down as much as possible and create more offense off turnovers rather than thinking our D will be the difference maker via a wide-open game.

Just my thoughts -

 

[Thechozen1]

This team knows that winning this series is likely just getting them another dance with the Devil that is Vegas. Looks like they want no part of that AGAIN. Let the AVS get picked apart by them.

 

[surixon]

Yep.

I think that's one of the reasons he works well with Names and (usually) Mono -- two strong puck carriers and a very smart positional player with top-end playmaking and scoring.

I get that T is a proven goalscorer -- but he (to some extent) and Miller seem to bear out the dictum that team fit can trump skill/ track record when it comes to playoff adds. He's trending as Hayes 2.0.

Agree with above that hard-matching seems to go against the "We play our game, not their game" ethos that carried the team to first-half dominance. Also not sure JMo is best used as a shutdown D, since he's also the team's main offensive driver from the back.

Too much neutering of talent with some deployments, maybe.

I don't doubt at all the team's drive and desire to win this. I do think coaching needs to support that with smart decisions that optimize available talent.

Anyway -- time to get a win or two in the mile high city.

The second line was better with Perfetti on it then with Toffoli after our that 6 game slide to end the year. Maybe we need to put in the hot hand and see if his 6 points in 5 games including 4 goals carries over into the playoffs. We need a spark to get that line going.

Gus had a good game and doesn't deserve to come out, I'd be taking Tyler out myself.

You've done a nice job of laying out our depth (especially on D) and how it impacts our ability to create offense -
But I'm not sure there is a solution in there anywhere.
44-2 are going to play the big minutes which happen to be the Mac minutes -
5-4 are next in line and will support our scoring line -
And 64-54 are what is left to support our "2nd" line - and neither of these guys will provide much in the way of offense. Stan's doing what he has been asked to do and as per the narrative, 54 struggles on the right side. IMO, a lot of that is simply the fact that he struggles - he's making mistakes that have nothing to do with the side or the ice he is playing. His biggest blunders are simply moving the puck under pressure - with the puck on his forehand. Stan's in the same boat - the Aves are very good with speed / pressure and our third paring are struggling with that - no surprise really.

In the end, it comes back to my first sentence above - our depth on D is not great and they have replied on a lot of support during the season, IOW's, when we played a more defensive 5 man game. If we can't get back to that (or at least attempt to play that game), our blueline is exposed (especially against excellent possession / cycle / rush teams like the Aves).

So, lets pull Stan and put in Miller / Smitty - I'm fine with that but I don't think it matters - because if that second line is going to continue playing the way they are (getting beat to almost every puck - or losing battles when they do get there), it won't matter. That's a vet line that should be able to adjust their game.
I'm in the camp that thinks we need to play a more conservative game - slow things down as much as possible and create more offense off turnovers rather than thinking our D will be the difference maker via a wide-open game.

Just my thoughts -

Agree with this. It is one of the reasons I thought we should have gone really hard after another top 4 dmen at the deadline instead of another winger.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

sure, but he+his line still isn't producing. through the 2-GP the 2nd line hasn't scored a goal, and the trio of fwds are combined at the bottom (or near) at the rate of 5v5 shots/chances generated.

ehlers historically has not produced in the POs. since 17-18 of players with similar GP there isn't another player with a larger regular-season to PO PPG drop off than him.

Ya I am not really trying to defend him here, I just think if Ehlers is off his game it will always be visible and that Toffoli/Monahan are also not doing anything on that line, its just easy to not make major mistakes when you basically don't touch the puck and do nothing out there.

 

[Gm0ney]

Can you super briefly explain that graphic, please. Like, do you want everything to be right of middle all of the time, or not necessarily?

Right is positive gamescore, left is negative. Gamescore is a weighted calculation of a player's contribution to the game.

 

[tarozi]

I am seriously concerned that the core of this team does not have what it takes to handle the pressure and elevated desperation of the playoffs.

Outside of a handful of players we have an awful lot of passengers and shrinking violets.

This is more than a game 2 first round loss hangover.

If they wilt and lose this series is an existential crisis for this team.

The org. is so loyal that they will simply run this group back and to expect different results with the same result is insanity.

The Stanley Cup is insanely hard to win, and I'm not one to say that if we don't win it we are a failure, but what I won't accept is a group of guys that just lay down every time things get difficult.

Jets better find a way to match the Avalanche intensity and desperation or its going to be a long offseason.

Holy Hot take.... you sound like me, lol.
Maybe their top players are just better than ours. It's a process to get better and losing is one of them. Management will do their best to improve the team and loyalty is a huge hurdle to overcome for this ownership/manager. We could take a few lessons from Vegas and their cut throat approach but that won't fly in Winnipeg. Hard decisions need to be made

 

[sipowicz]

yup, I've got similar concerns. I think we get a lot of answers in game 3. It looks at this point like one team had another level to go to in the playoffs and the other was maxed out already in the regular season and has nowhere left to take it.

Or one team wants it more than the other team, starting to look like the Vegas series from last season, the Canadians series from 21' and the Vegas series from 18'!

 

[Jets 31]

I would give Perfetti a shot but i'm not taking a 33 goal scorer out of the lineup in Toffoli. It would be Iafallo or Appleton. And if we are going to go by recent playoff production then i guess Ehlers is going to be sitting along with Helly which i wouldn't do .