Average TV audience numbers for each team ??

[MoreOrr]

I always read that TV audience numbers are much more important these days than attendance to games. So, does anyone have stats on the estimated number of TV viewers that each team in the League has on average for a game during the season? I would really like to see how all the teams stack up in this area.

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[kdb209]

I always read that TV audience numbers are much more important these days than attendance to games. So, does anyone have stats on the estimated number of TV viewers that each team in the League has on average for a game during the season? I would really like to see how all the teams stack up in this area.

You read wrong - attendance is much more important than TV audience numbers. Gate and other arena revenes provide the majority of NHL revenues. From the pre-lockout Levitt Report the numbers were roughly 50% Gate Revenue, 25% Arena Revenue, and 25% Broadcast Revenue:

http://andrewsstarspage.com/NHL-Business/2002-03levitt.htm

Levitt Report Numbers
 
2002-03 NHL Season
Revenues 	Regular season 	Playoffs 	Total
Gate receipts 	$886 million 	$111 million 	$997 million
Preseason and special games 	$50 million 	$0 million 	$50 million
Broadcasting and new media 	$432 million 	$17 million 	$449 million
In-arena revenues 	$401 million 	$14 million 	$415 million
Other hockey revenues 	$82 million 	$3 million 	$85 million
Total revenues 	$1,851 million 	$145 million 	$1,996 million

And note that those numbers were from when the league was getting $120M/yr from ABC/ESPN/ESPN - not the current $67.5M from Versus and pocket change from NBC.

 

[njdevsfn95]

the NHL has, and will remain to be in the near future, a GATE DRIVEN league.

while the NHL still makes a substantial amount of money off TV (probably in the $300M range now), it pales in comparison to the amount from the gate.

the numbers above are from 02-03 and ticket prices haven't gone down a lot (if at all) but attendance has risen.

now if a person goes to a game for free, it will skew the amount of money made on "gate receipts" however, how often will a person go to a game for FREE and not pay for a souvenir or something to eat/drink?

so attendance is rising, which is good, because if it does not add an increase in gate receipts (which for the majority it does), it should result in an increase in "in arena revenues" anyway.

Again, as posted above, NHL teams were bringing in about $15M/team from "broadcasting" but now that they lost at least $60M from that number due to the move from ABC/ESPN to VS, it is down to $12-13M/team.

 

[Egil]

the NHL has, and will remain to be in the near future, a GATE DRIVEN league.

while the NHL still makes a substantial amount of money off TV (probably in the $300M range now), it pales in comparison to the amount from the gate.

the numbers above are from 02-03 and ticket prices haven't gone down a lot (if at all) but attendance has risen.

now if a person goes to a game for free, it will skew the amount of money made on "gate receipts" however, how often will a person go to a game for FREE and not pay for a souvenir or something to eat/drink?

so attendance is rising, which is good, because if it does not add an increase in gate receipts (which for the majority it does), it should result in an increase in "in arena revenues" anyway.

Again, as posted above, NHL teams were bringing in about $15M/team from "broadcasting" but now that they lost at least $60M from that number due to the move from ABC/ESPN to VS, it is down to $12-13M/team.

I think this is an american centered position that is false. THe NHL used to get $120 mil for US network and Cable rights. They currently get $65 mil for Cable plus some undiclosed amount for network. The net loss is $50-55 mil.

However, the new CBC deal will give the NHL an extra $35 mil over the previous deal, and that is despite giving up exclusive rights to Canadian playoff series (I think they get first, second and fourth pick). Those additional perks will be going to TSN, who will also pay more than before. I would hazard a guess that TSN, since they will get more Canadian team games (including the Leafs), and a Canadian playoff series, will pony up at least $20 mil more than they currently are. In short, I expect that the NHL might actually make MORE money from national TV deals in 2008-2009 than ever before.

 

[fan mao rong]

Which is more important- paid attendance , or viewing on TV?
Or to put it another way-from which do teams derive more revenue, from a person going to a game and buying what some would say is a somewhat overpriced admission ticket----or from dividing up what percentage they can derive from a person's cable bill or the take from advertising revenues from programming reputed to be lowly rated?
That's a very interesting question. Let me go somewhere and ponder that.
I'll get back to you.

 

[kdb209]

Which is more important- paid attendance , or viewing on TV?
Or to put it another way-from which do teams derive more revenue, from a person going to a game and buying what some would say is a somewhat overpriced admission ticket----or from dividing up what percentage they can derive from a person's cable bill or the take from advertising revenues from programming reputed to be lowly rated?
That's a very interesting question. Let me go somewhere and ponder that.
I'll get back to you.

For the NHL, unquestionably, the former. With the exception of the NBC deal, the league and teams typically get up front rights fees, not revenues "from dividing up what percentage they can derive from a person's cable bill or the take from advertising revenues".

For the NFL, very likely the latter.

For MLB it may be a mix depending upon the team. For those teams which own and operate an RSN (YES, NESN, etc) they are cash cows. For teams which just get shared national revenues and a local cable rights fees, gate is still a very significant revenue stream.

For the NBA, despite it's bigger than the NHL, smaller than the NFL broadcast deals ($765M/yr from ABC/ESPN/TNT plus local RSN revenues), still gets a very large chunk of revenue from gate plus other arena revenues. For comparison with the NHL's '05-'06 HRR of $2.178B, the NBA's comparable BRI (Basketball Related Income) in '05-'06 was about 50% more ($3.345B, based on back calculating from the '06-'07 team cap of $53.135M)

 

[puck57]

How can anyone even argue that gate attendance is more important than tv for revenues when you see how gigantic the NFL is- there should not even be any question. Do you realize what football is able to command just in advertising alone? Attendance is just icing on the cake- they don't even need anyone to show up for the games for petes sake. I have said it before and I will repeat here- anyone who thinks a sport can even think about being a "major" sport without being successful on tv forget it- the only way to get deep revenue for long term stability comes from tv just face it. Hopefully 5-10 years ahead, the NHL can again start to claim some of the tv market again- how it will happen I don't know but there HAS to be a long term beneficial US tv contract at some point.

 

[MoreOrr]

I'm certainly not knowledgeable on this topic, thus partly the reason for the question. But my assumption would be that both arguments that's being presented in this thread are correct. For the NHL, with it's less than poor TV coverage, specifically in most of the US, it would therefore seem obvious that by far most of the revenue comes from gate attendance. However, on the flipside, I would think that this is not the case for the other major leagues and that the NHL obviously wishes it weren't the case for it.

Thus the reason for my question, knowing that TV revenues are relatively low, nevertheless, how does each team stack up in it's ability to draw a TV audience, and thus tap some of that potential TV revenue?

 

[saskganesh]

some teams have some sweet local deals. in total, regional TV deals trump national TV deals and are a significant source of revenue that isn't usually recognised.