Player Discussion Auston Matthews Discussion

[WillNy29]

Rielly was a shoot threat in 2019? 20 goals

Marner a shoot threat in 2022 pacing for 40 goals

Matthews has never shown he can run a PP like the elite players in the league. His play making has always been lagging and he hasnt elevated any of his wingers inti big time goal scorers

Marner being on the PP has helped Matthews goals there as has Nylander.

Leafs have an elite PP name wise but havent been dominant as expected. Partially is due to less PPs called in reg season but he drop come playoffs doesnt make sense

Our PP loses all sense of creativity and just makes bad plays from all 5 guys come playoffs with the exception of 2023 vs Tampa


No one argues him as the best goal scorer...i think he has 1 rocket his career - Edit he has 2 rockets actually

Hes ranked outside the top 5 goal scoring listing on history of hockey board

Gretzky
OV
Lemieux
Howe
Bobby Hull
Brett Hull

Are the top 6 goal goal scorers all time. Matthews will 99% join that group as long as he doesnt have any injuries. Of that listing 3 are generation players and the rest are all generational goal scorers which is what Matthews will be

10 season of hockey in his career due to injury, 5 of them with 60 goals (tied with Wayne with like 800 less games played), 9 of them with 50.

Is bossy a generational player? Is OV?

Are Bobby Hull or Brett Hull Generational players?

Your talking out of your ass and refuse to see the difference between a generational goal scorer and a generational player . Hence the 500 goals before 30 being mentioned and nothing with pts, rosses/harts/lindsays, all nhl teams, smythes being discussed

Its pure fanboying

dude wtf is a "generational goal scorer" youre creating some next fanfic in your head so that you can say Matthews is a "generational goal scorer." A player who scores goals at the pace he is doing comes along generationally therefore is a generational player.

Praytell who is a generational defensive forward now? or generational goalie? do we have generational defensemen too?

 

[hamzarocks]

10 season of hockey in his career due to injury, 5 of them with 60 goals (tied with Wayne with like 800 less games played), 9 of them with 50.

He has 2 rockets

Him missing games doesnt make him impressive

Just like you pretending gretzkys 80 and 90 goal seasons are the same as Bossys 60 goal seasons

His goal scoring for his era he was the 3rd best gosl scorer after 99 and 66

He never won a hart or ross either

Matthews is more generatjonal than Bossy as long as he doesnt get injured. Bossy was hardly a top 3 player any season he played. Maybe not even top 5

 

[Stringer Bell]

I'd be happy if Matthews rounded out his offensive game a bit more. I would trade less goals for skating and controlling the play more, quarter backing the PP, better playmaking etc. He's great at scoring (understatement), but I'd like to see him command the ice more like McDavid, Mackinnon, etc.

 

[hamzarocks]

10 season of hockey in his career due to injury, 5 of them with 60 goals (tied with Wayne with like 800 less games played), 9 of them with 50.


dude wtf is a "generational goal scorer" youre creating some next fanfic in your head so that you can say Matthews is a "generational goal scorer." A player who scores goals at the pace he is doing comes along generationally therefore is a generational player.

Praytell who is a generational defensive forward now? or generational goalie? do we have generational defensemen too?

A generational player is capable of sweeping all the major awards

Is capable of being a year in threat for the awards in his prime (10+ years at least) and doesnt have down years/take a while to get up to that level

Dominates the playoffs above his peers

9, 99, 66, 4 and 97 are the only players to accomplish this

Matthews is a franchise player. He isnt a generational player as a generational player doesnt take 5 years to be a top 5 player in the league (2017 to 2020 was not a top 5 player based of media, players, his scoring finishes, or playoffs)

Those 5 guys were that level pretty much being #1 to 3 players in the league from age 18 till a drop to top 10ish player by the end of their careers (lemieux had a bigger decline by his last year as he bad a shit ton of injuries throughout his career)

Matthews goal scoring is tracking for him to be another OV, except OV has better peak years in 2008 - 2010 and has a cup for now which Matthews is missing

 

[WillNy29]

A generational player is capable of sweeping all the major awards

Is capable of being a year in threat for the awards in his prime and doesnt have down years/take a while to get up to that level

Dominates the playoffs above his peers

9, 99, 66, 4 and 97 are the only players to accomplish this

Matthews is a franchise player. He isnt a generational player as a generational player doesnt take 5 years to be a top 5 player in the league.

Those 5 guys were that leve and pretty mucb #1 or 2 players in the league from age 18 till a drop to top 10ish player by the end of their careers

Matthews goal scoring is tracking for him to be another OV, except OV has better peak years in 2008 - 2010 and has a cup for now which Matthews is missing

these generational players you keep listing have all done one thing 97 hasn't and all did it before they turned 25...maybe he should do that once before labelling him the all mighty generational, if we want to be this stringent and obtuse because I can make up criteria too.

Maybe 97 would have done it if he didnt vanish from games 2-6 in round 2 last year or get swept before that, or lose to Chicago.

 

[hamzarocks]

these generational players you keep listing have all done one thing 97 hasn't and all did it before they turned 25...maybe he should do that once before labelling him the all mighty generational, if we want to be this stringent and obtuse because I can make up criteria too.

Maybe 97 would have done it if he didnt vanish from games 2-6 in round 2 last year or get swept before that, or lose to Chicago.

Come on man

I dont get what your issue is with Mcdavid?

You're making a lie now about him disapearing vs the Knights?

Games 1 and 2 he had 5 pts in 2 games. If he kept that up ofcourse they win the series. That isnt possible to keep up. 2.5ppg

Games 2 to 6 he has 5 pts in 4 games. That is 1.25 ppg which is only a little worse than any star forward best series for us (marner with 11 in 6 and matthews with 9)

He dominated vs the Avs too. Had 7 pts in 4 games. That series the Avs were just way to good and Oilers goal tending way to shit

Mcdavid has the 2nd or 3rd best ppg ever for playoffs. Sure it will fall the more he plays and ages but the facts he at that level shows he is generational and a class of his own

Just put up 12 pts in 5 games. Those are video game numbers for a series. Its crazy we can type that with Mcdavid and just act like that isnt one of the best performances for a R1 series.

He likely dominates the nucks and helps the oilers continue their run for a cup.

 

[WillNy29]

Come on man

I dont get what your issue is with Mcdavid?

Your making a lie know about him disapearing vs the Knights?

Games 1 and 2 he had 5 pts in 2 games. If he kept that up ofcourse they win the series. That isnt possible to keep up. 2.5ppg

Games 2 to 6 he has 5 pts in 4 games. That is 1.25 ppg which is only a little worse than any star forward best series for us (marner with 11 in 6 and matthews with 9)

He dominated vs the Avs too. Had 7 pts in 4 games. That series the Avs were just way to good and Oilers goal tending way to shit

Mcdavid has the 2nd or 3rd best ppg ever for playoffs. Sure it will fall the more he plays and ages but the facts he at that level shows he is generational and a class of his own

Just put up 12 pts in 5 games. Likely dominates the nucks and helps the oilers continue their run for a cup.

I actually have no problem with McDavid, in fact i love the player he's electric. I am being obtuse because its hard to take someone seriously when they refuse to acknowledge that a guy scoring at the pace matthews is while having arguably a top 3 defensive game as a center is a f***ing unicorn; instead you seem to dismiss anything he does at every turn as just a goal scorer. I want more from him in the playoffs and I've seen him take over playoffs with his goal scoring in the past but also have the well run dry. You're arguing so hard against him being a hart winner or a lindsay candidate as if he kicked your dog rather than taking time to realize why he might be a top 3 player in the game.

Also McDavd had 4 even strength points against vegas man he did not have the best series; in his last 4 games of that series he had 3 even strength points and was a -1; sure as hell didnt help winning games like that lol

 

[hamzarocks]

I actually have no problem with McDavid, in fact i love the player he's electric. I am being obtuse because its hard to take someone seriously when they refuse to acknowledge that a guy scoring at the pace matthews is while having arguably a top 3 defensive game as a center is a f***ing unicorn; instead you seem to dismiss anything he does at every turn as just a goal scorer. I want more from him in the playoffs and I've seen him take over playoffs with his goal scoring in the past but also have the well run dry. You're arguing so hard against him being a hart winner or a lindsay candidate as if he kicked your dog rather than taking time to realize why he might be a top 3 player in the game.

Also McDavd had 4 even strength points against vegas man he did not have the best series; in his last 4 games of that series he had 3 even strength points and was a -1; sure as hell didnt help winning games like that lol

I have matthews as 4th best player in the game this year.

I would take him ahead for 2023-2024 play ahead of everyone but the three hart finalists.

I dont think he should have been a lindsau finalist over Mcdavid but that doesnt mean he didnt have an season well worth his deal or a season which would have won the hart + lindsay in 2022 ( his current year was a little worse than his 2022 season) but still arguably ahead of 2022 Mcdavid

I would rather have 2023/2024 kucherov, Mack, and Mcdavid for this year over 69 goals and a selke finalist Matthews.

Ignoring PP pts is just clear cut dishonesty. If a player has 6 PP pts thats 6 goals for the team. He had 10 pts overall which is more thsn any series for any of the big 4 save Marner 2023.

Mcdavid standards and expectations are just a different level where 10 in 6 is a bad series. It further shows why hes a generational player and Matthews isnt. The expectations for the two players are in two different leagues

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

He didn't get Hart votes because of the EVIL media scapegoating him AGAINN!

 

[authentic]

10 season of hockey in his career due to injury, 5 of them with 60 goals (tied with Wayne with like 800 less games played), 9 of them with 50.


dude wtf is a "generational goal scorer" youre creating some next fanfic in your head so that you can say Matthews is a "generational goal scorer." A player who scores goals at the pace he is doing comes along generationally therefore is a generational player.

Praytell who is a generational defensive forward now? or generational goalie? do we have generational defensemen too?

Someone who scores 69 goals while nominated for the Selke sounds generational to me. How many generations have produced such a player?

 

[Martin Skoula]

I have matthews as 4th best player in the game this year.

I would take him ahead for 2023-2024 play ahead of everyone but the three hart finalists.

I dont think he should have been a lindsau finalist over Mcdavid but that doesnt mean he didnt have an season well worth his deal or a season which would have won the hart + lindsay in 2022 ( his current year was a little worse than his 2022 season) but still arguably ahead of 2022 Mcdavid

I would rather have 2023/2024 kucherov, Mack, and Mcdavid for this year over 69 goals and a selke finalist Matthews.

Ignoring PP pts is just clear cut dishonesty. If a player has 6 PP pts thats 6 goals for the team. He had 10 pts overall which is more thsn any series for any of the big 4 save Marner 2023.

Mcdavid standards and expectations are just a different level where 10 in 6 is a bad series. It further shows why hes a generational player and Matthews isnt. The expectations for the two players are in two different leagues

McD had a point tonight, let me know how instrumental it was to the play. How many of his points are plays like the 2nd assist he picked up making a nothing pass to the D who made the actually relevant stretch pass? When you’re “the guy” like that it’s hard to have a bad series when almost every scoring play on the PP and 20 minutes of ES is always within two touches of your stick on the entry or regroup.

 

[saffronleaf]

McD had a point tonight, let me know how instrumental it was to the play. How many of his points are plays like the 2nd assist he picked up making a nothing pass to the D who made the actually relevant stretch pass? When you’re “the guy” like that it’s hard to have a bad series when almost every scoring play on the PP and 20 minutes of ES is always within two touches of your stick on the entry or regroup.

yes i call those the marner points

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

So Matthews suffered a head injury in game 4 and came back for game 7... cool.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Matthews goal scoring is as noteworthy as his disappearing acts. If Matthews had that dawg in him, we would have made a conference final by now. I cant imagine being 6-3 230 and never hitting anyone in the playoffs, when hitting becomes crucial and an easy way for him to separate man from the puck. He knows this, but too soft, scared and unwilling to play that way. He was excellent in Game 2 vs Boston, it only raises questions about Game 1 or Game 3, Game 4, Game 7,, Previous playoffs, Matthews is no superstar, he blends in and hopes others will do it for him.

55 games, 23 goals, 25 assists. 48 points. 13.25 million. 1 playoff series win vs Tampa, a series they were severly outplayed.

 

[Jojalu]

Matthews goal scoring is as noteworthy as his disappearing acts. If Matthews had that dawg in him, we would have made a conference final by now. I cant imagine being 6-3 230 and never hitting anyone in the playoffs, when hitting becomes crucial and an easy way for him to separate man from the puck. He knows this, but too soft, scared and unwilling to play that way. He was excellent in Game 2 vs Boston, it only raises questions about Game 1 or Game 3, Game 4, Game 7,, Previous playoffs, Matthews is no superstar, he blends in and hopes others will do it for him.

55 games, 23 goals, 25 assists. 48 points. 13.25 million. 1 playoff series win vs Tampa, a series they were severly outplayed.

What are you talking about? He was second on the team in hits for forwards and would have easily run away had he not missed two games.

He hit while forechecking.. he hit in his own zone.

You can go on about his lack of scoring, but he hits people all the time

 

[mjd1001]

What are you talking about? He was second on the team in hits for forwards and would have easily run away had he not missed two games.

He hit while forechecking.. he hit in his own zone.

You can go on about his lack of scoring, but he hits people all the time

I agree with that, but I'm going to take the point in a different direction.

I don't care if he hits or not and would rather have him be even more selective bout the hits/contact.

Now, I don't want him to turtle and run away from contact. I don't want every time he get touched by someone else for him to run to the refs and complain. That's not what I'm talking about here. But, with him you have a generational goal scorer. I want nothing, zero, to get in the way of that. Last year we all think he was playing through a wrist injury, and what happened? For his standards, he had a pretty bad year (compared to this year and 2 years ago). Now, every time there is extra contact, there is a slight additional risk of him tweaking something. Yeah, I know players play through those things all the time, but when I have the BEST goal scorer in the league, I don't want HIM playing through that.

There have been other great players in the NHL that had size that didn't play much of a physical game. Tim Kerr, Dave Andreychuck, even Rick Vaive to a certain extent (he was much less physical later in his career and his career ended early BECAUSE of the beating he took). They used that size to be able to take a beating to be near the front of the net, to put themselves in position to score even more goals when a lesser/smaller guy might have been knocked out of the way. I want just about 100% of the contact Matthews endures to be while he is doing that. Play positionally. Use your size to be in areas that others can't. As far as the rest of his game, he's physical enough.

If we want to criticize him not showing up enough in big games fine. If we want to say he doesn't produce enough in the playoffs, especially compared to guys like MacKinnon, McDavid, Draisaitl, fine. I think Matthews needs to be better. But playing more of a physical game by throwing more hits, I think that is going in the wrong direction.

 

[Kazparov]

This thread is stupid.

"Matthews is a generational goal scorer, but the Leafs have ever had"

"Yes but there's 2-3 players in the world who are better than him, therefore he is trash"

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Matthews had 93 primary points and McDavid had 94 primary points,

Where do you get Primary point stats ?

 

[ToneDog]

McD had a point tonight, let me know how instrumental it was to the play. How many of his points are plays like the 2nd assist he picked up making a nothing pass to the D who made the actually relevant stretch pass? When you’re “the guy” like that it’s hard to have a bad series when almost every scoring play on the PP and 20 minutes of ES is always within two touches of your stick on the entry or regroup.

McDavid was a little better last night. His goal to send the game into OT was brilliant.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

"Matthews is a generational goal scorer

in the regular season.

His shooting game doesn’t work in the playoffs. The record is clear now.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

a top 3 defensive game as a center is a f***ing unicorn

Are there stats to justify this ?

Matthews vs McDavid

How successful did either player make Hyman ?

No contest

 

[fahad203]

Last 8 years, someone remind me in which playoff series he was the best player?
Columbus, Montreal, Washington, Boston, Tampa and Florida

Which one of those series, he was the best player in the series?

I'll wait

 

[Jojalu]

Last 8 years, someone remind me in which playoff series he was the best player?
Columbus, Montreal, Washington, Boston, Tampa and Florida

Which one of those series, he was the best player in the series?

I'll wait

TB last year.

Bos a few years back.

Arguably Was

 

[fahad203]

TB last year.

Bos a few years back.

Arguably Was

He wasn't the best player against TB. That was Morgan Reilly. He was insane

He intact had more points than Matthews being a Defencemen

Against Boston that was in 2019 he had 5 goals but he wasn't the best player on the ice. Bergeron and Pasta were.

Now do the same comparison to McDavid, Mackinnon, Drai and Kuch/Stamkos

How many playoffs do you have to ask if they were the best player in a series. ?

They are the opposite. They only have handful of playoffs when they weren't the best player in a series

Some players just don't have that extra gear. They don't want it

 

[Jojalu]

He wasn't the best player against TB. That was Morgan Reilly. He was insane

He intact had more points than Matthews being a Defencemen

Against Boston that was in 2019 he had 5 goals but he wasn't the best player on the ice. Bergeron and Pasta were.

Now do the same comparison to McDavid, Mackinnon, Drai and Kuch/Stamkos

How many playoffs do you have to ask if they were the best player in a series. ?

They are the opposite. They only have handful of playoffs when they weren't the best player in a series

Some players just don't have that extra gear. They don't want it

This debate is tiresome.

Just because you are not the best doesn't mean you are not good. And it certainly doesn't mean you don't want it.

The Leafs have failed as a team for a variety of reasons. One of them is Matthews hasn't produced as he does in the regular season.

The core didn't work together in the playoffs. Plain and simple.

Matthews has a higher GPG and PPG than Stamkos incthe playoffs and even with him being not great is top 60 alltime in both. In tje history of the league.

He needs to be more consistent for sure, but he hasn't been awful