Player Discussion Auston Matthews Discussion

[Martin Skoula]

Any leaf fan should take Mcdavid over Matthews whether its this season, next year or whenever.

This sort of overrating of our core players has gotten us nowhere.

Matthews is a generational goal scorer and Toronto maple leaf but he isnt a generational player like Mcdavid

Fun fact, fans overrating or underrating anyone on the team doesn’t matter, nothing you do, have done, or ever will do as a fan matters on the ice.

 

[hamzarocks]

Fun fact, fans overrating or underrating anyone on the team doesn’t matter, nothing you do, have done, or ever will do as a fan matters on the ice.

Apparently to Marner it does

He likes/doesn't like being a god in the eyes of the fans and it impacts his play

 

[57 Years No Cup]

This is all your opinion.

This is why forums were created I guess. To debate inconsequential topics.

No one knows why players keep voting for Matthews. We can only guess.

Perhaps they value scoring more as it's a tough thing to do. Combined with playing all world D.

It's a rare combination to do both.

But 3 out of the last 4 years he has been nominated so they are clearly seeing something that your bias will not allow.

He has not been great in the playoffs, and his salary has nothing to do with voting. It is simply who they believe had the better year

Matthews is a God among players. Why? Because they have a Player's Union and anyone who drives salaries up is looked up to.

 

[Jojalu]

Matthews is a God among players. Why? Because they have a Player's Union and anyone who drives salaries up is looked up to.

Interesting theory. Maybe a shred of truth to it,

In the regualr season though, Matthews is pretty special

 

[WillNy29]

No idea why players voted Matthews a sa finalist

Didnt think he deserved that at all. Mcdavid had 23 more pts and paced for 30 more pts thah Matthews

That is the 2nd time players have done Mcdavid dirty for the lindsay. First was 2022 when Matthews and Mcdavid should have split the hart and lindsay

And now 2024 when Mcdavid didnt get a finalist spot despite such a large gap in production.

He still has 4 lindsay wins but if the players keep voting him out for inferior players his chances of catching Gretzky wont be looking good


The lindsay is for best players usually

Matthews wouldnt be a lindsay finalist any year besides 2022 if the award was for best player

Hed lost his spot in 2021 when Mcdavid, Draisaitl, and Mackinnon were better than him

And he would lose the spot this year to Mcdavid if it were on that

The hart and lindsay are both not perfect awards. Biases come into play for both

so are the players wrong? or are you salty?

 

[WillNy29]

Any leaf fan should take Mcdavid over Matthews whether its this season, next year or whenever.

This sort of overrating of our core players has gotten us nowhere.

Matthews is a generational goal scorer and Toronto maple leaf but he isnt a generational player like Mcdavid

i dont know the last time someone scored 69 goals was a generation ago... how is that not generational LOL.

he is on pace to be the only the third player in NHL HISTORY to get to 500 goals before 30...the other two are Gretzky and Bossy.

 

[hamzarocks]

i dont know the last time someone scored 69 goals was a generation ago... how is that not generational LOL.

he is on pace to be the only the third player in NHL HISTORY to get to 500 goals before 30...the other two are Gretzky and Bossy.

If matthews is a generational player

Than so are:

Kucherov, Draisaitl, Mackinnon

Generational would lose its meaning if thats the case

Yoy would have an absurd amount of generational players

The only generational players for me Are the big 4 + Mcdavid + maybe Crosby, OV, Hasek

He looks like he can challange the goals record if he stays healthy and doesnt decline. His goal scoring is generational but not his overall offensive production

 

[Antropovsky]

Interesting theory. Maybe a shred of truth to it,

In the regualr season though, Matthews is pretty special

Very cool that Matthews is such highly regarded around the NHL.

 

[WillNy29]

If matthews is a generational player

Than so are:

Kucherov, Draisaitl, Mackinnon

Generational would lose its meaning if thats the case

Yoy would have an absurd amount of generational players

The only generational players for me Are the big 4 + Mcdavid + maybe Crosby, OV, Hasek

He looks like he can challange the goals record if he stays healthy and doesnt decline. His goal scoring is generational but not his overall offensive production

so wait being the first player in 30 years to score 69 goals by definition isnt once in a generation?

500 before 30 as the third player ever isn't generational? especially while being a stud defensively. We really like to discredit our guys; keep doing you man, maybe when we have to root for Joey Crabb on the first line again we'll understand how much of an impact Matthews has on the game for the leafs.

 

[pdson]

Hockey players aren’t too bright traditionally and those are

Hockey players aren't the only ones that are not too bright

 

[hamzarocks]

so wait being the first player in 30 years to score 69 goals by definition isnt once in a generation?

500 before 30 as the third player ever isn't generational? especially while being a stud defensively. We really like to discredit our guys; keep doing you man, maybe when we have to root for Joey Crabb on the first line again we'll understand how much of an impact Matthews has on the game for the leafs.

Why do you look at only goals?

Kucherov has 2 rosses and possibly 2 harts + lindsays. That is more than matthews is he generational?

Draisaitl has same number of harts+lindsays and more top 3 finshes for goals and assists along with being 2nd/3rd in playoffs ppg ever is he generational?

Mackinnon has now 4 hart finalist appearances and I think 4 lindsay as well. Is he generational?

Were Joe Sakic, Malkin, Patty Kane, etc etc generational?

Matthews hasnt seperated himself from any of those names (is behind all of them all time listing as hes played the least amount of years, but can still pass some of them if he has more dominant seasons like this again)

Matthews scored 69 goals makes him a generational goal scorer for me. Pastranak scored 60 last year, Mcdavid I think 64. Neither have the consistency of matthews for goal scoring so they arent generational goal scorers

Matthews doesnt have the consistency and ability to generate offense and get assists like a Mcdavid so he isnt generational for me

The Joey crabb line is just an idotic take that holds no relevance to the discussion

 

[pdson]

i dont know the last time someone scored 69 goals was a generation ago... how is that not generational LOL.

he is on pace to be the only the third player in NHL HISTORY to get to 500 goals before 30...the other two are Gretzky and Bossy.

Sounds pretty generational to me.

 

[Antropovsky]

Matthews only trails Mackinnon in points/60 at 5vs5 over the past 3 years.

also over the past three seasons, Compared to the the other top guys (including Mackinnon), per 60, he wins the most faceoffs, has the most takeaways, the least giveaways, most blocks, by far the most individual high danger scoring chances, by far the most individual scoring chances for, the best iFF, icf...

The NHL players know their #$%#, that's why Matthews was voted again as a finalistfor the lindsay.

 

[hamzarocks]

Matthews only trails Mackinnon in points/60 at 5vs5 over the past 3 years.

also over the past three seasons, Compared to the the other top guys (including Mackinnon), per 60, he wins the most faceoffs, has the most takeaways, the least giveaways, most blocks, by far the most individual high danger scoring chances, by far the most individual scoring chances for, the best iFF, icf...

The NHL players know their #$%#, that's why Matthews was voted again as a finalistfor the lindsay.

Maybe he should learn to drive a PP

Would help his stats, his PP/60 overall and maybe get us a playoff series win vs a medicore opponent

 

[WillNy29]

Why do you look at only goals?

Kucherov has 2 rosses and possibly 2 harts + lindsays. That is more than matthews is he generational?

Draisaitl has same number of harts+lindsays and more top 3 finshes for goals and assists along with being 2nd/3rd in playoffs ppg ever is he generational?

Mackinnon has now 4 hart finalist appearances and I think 4 lindsay as well. Is he generational?

Were Joe Sakic, Malkin, Patty Kane, etc etc generational?

Matthews hasnt seperated himself from any of those names (is behind all of them all time listing as hes played the least amount of years, but can still pass some of them if he has more dominant seasons like this again)

Matthews scored 69 goals makes him a generational goal scorer for me. Pastranak scored 60 last year, Mcdavid I think 64. Neither have the consistency of matthews for goal scoring so they arent generational goal scorers

Matthews doesnt have the consistency and ability to generate offense and get assists like a Mcdavid so he isnt generational for me

The Joey crabb line is just an idotic take that holds no relevance to the discussion

you still have not addressed the minor detail that hes pacing to hit 500 goals before 30. Only Gretzky and Bossy have done that; which i guess you believe is not rarified air ofcourse, because its not something McDavid is going to do so it doesnt matter. Remind me again when Pastrnak, Kucherov, Joe Sakic, Malkin, Patrick Kane have done that? I'll wait.

 

[hamzarocks]

you still have not addressed the minor detail that hes pacing to hit 500 goals before 30. Only Gretzky and Bossy have done that; which i guess you believe is not rarified air ofcourse, because its not something McDavid is going to do so it doesnt matter. Remind me again when Pastrnak, Kucherov, Joe Sakic, Malkin, Patrick Kane have done that? I'll wait.

If you think being generational means being part of a listing for a specific stat than again you will find there are many generational players especially when you can set parameters to narrow the list

In that list no one says bossy is a generational player despite him having 500 goals before 30 years old

Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr and Mcdavid are the only true generational players

Crosby may have been one had he been healthier

A generational player to me is basically a top 5 player all time level talent for me

Your 500 before 30 age stat also excludes OV who missed on 500 due to lockout in 05 and 13 and the best goal scorer ever in Lemieux due to injuries. If its game based than he and Lemieux would be right there so its a narrowed down stat made to make your point look better

 

[Antropovsky]

Maybe he should learn to drive a PP

Would help his stats, his PP/60 overall and maybe get us a playoff series win vs a medicore opponent

Well when you have two guys who aren't shooting threats... Reilly and Marner.. your pp is in trouble.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I mean Matthews' is a generational goal scorer .. therefore he is a generational player in a sense. it's a silly argument in semantics though.

Similar logic would say that Ovi isn't a top 10/15/20 player of all time because he didn't generate enough offense because of assists (he's tied for 62nd all time BTW).

 

[notbias]

If you think being generational means being part of a listing for a specific stat than again you will find there are many generational players especially when you can set parameters to narrow the list

In that list no one says bossy is a generational player despite him having 500 goals before 30 years old

Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr and Mcdavid are the only true generational players

Crosby may have been one had he been healthier

A generational player to me is basically a top 5 player all time level talent for me

Your 500 before 30 age stat also excludes OV who missed on 500 due to lockout in 05 and 13 and the best goal scorer ever in Lemieux due to injuries. If its game based than he and Lemieux would be right there so its a narrowed down stat made to make your point look better

Bossy is argued as the best goal scorer ever by some... it's good company.

 

[slozo]

If you think being generational means being part of a listing for a specific stat than again you will find there are many generational players especially when you can set parameters to narrow the list

In that list no one says bossy is a generational player despite him having 500 goals before 30 years old

Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr and Mcdavid are the only true generational players

Crosby may have been one had he been healthier

A generational player to me is basically a top 5 player all time level talent for me

Your 500 before 30 age stat also excludes OV who missed on 500 due to lockout in 05 and 13 and the best goal scorer ever in Lemieux due to injuries. If its game based than he and Lemieux would be right there so its a narrowed down stat made to make your point look better

If those are your criteria,
for recent history you need to add Crosby, Ovechkin, Matthews.
McDavid to Matthews is what Crosby to Ovie was, IMHO.

 

[hamzarocks]

Well when you have two guys who aren't shooting threats... Reilly and Marner.. your pp is in trouble.

Rielly was a shoot threat in 2019? 20 goals

Marner a shoot threat in 2022 pacing for 40 goals

Matthews has never shown he can run a PP like the elite players in the league. His play making has always been lagging and he hasnt elevated any of his wingers inti big time goal scorers

Marner being on the PP has helped Matthews goals there as has Nylander.

Leafs have an elite PP name wise but havent been dominant as expected. Partially is due to less PPs called in reg season but he drop come playoffs doesnt make sense

Our PP loses all sense of creativity and just makes bad plays from all 5 guys come playoffs with the exception of 2023 vs Tampa

Bossy is argued as the best goal scorer ever by some... it's good company.

No one argues him as the best goal scorer...i think he has 1 rocket his career - Edit he has 2 rockets actually

Hes ranked outside the top 5 goal scoring listing on history of hockey board

Gretzky
OV
Lemieux
Howe
Bobby Hull
Brett Hull

Are the top 6 goal goal scorers all time. Matthews will 99% join that group as long as he doesnt have any injuries. Of that listing 3 are generation players and the rest are all generational goal scorers which is what Matthews will be

 

[hamzarocks]

If those are your criteria,
for recent history you need to add Crosby, Ovechkin, Matthews.
McDavid to Matthews is what Crosby to Ovie was, IMHO.

Crosby, OV and Matthews (specifically) arent top 5 player all time players

Matthews has a long ways to go before hes top 25

Crosbys disapointing late 20s and early 30s (for a generational player standards) + injuries in his mid 20s has him 8th or so all time

OV simply was too one dimensional after 2010 outside of 2013 and 2015. He was never a real threat for ross/hart/lindsay 2011-2020 period.

Mcdavid is the first generational player we have seen since Mario Lemieux retired

 

[slozo]

Crosby, OV and Matthews (specifically) arent top 5 player all time players

Matthews has a long ways to go before hes top 25

Crosbys disapointing late 20s and early 30s (for a generational player standards) + injuries in his mid 20s has him 8th or so all time

OV simply was too one dimensional after 2010 outside of 2013 and 2015. He was never a real threat for ross/hart/lindsay 2011-2020 period.

Mcdavid is the first generational player we have seen since Mario Lemieux retired

I can see you haven't studied this: my discussion ends here.

 

[WillNy29]

If you think being generational means being part of a listing for a specific stat than again you will find there are many generational players especially when you can set parameters to narrow the list

In that list no one says bossy is a generational player despite him having 500 goals before 30 years old

Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr and Mcdavid are the only true generational players

Crosby may have been one had he been healthier

A generational player to me is basically a top 5 player all time level talent for me

Your 500 before 30 age stat also excludes OV who missed on 500 due to lockout in 05 and 13 and the best goal scorer ever in Lemieux due to injuries. If its game based than he and Lemieux would be right there so its a narrowed down stat made to make your point look better

anytime youre adding lemieux into a category to try and make someone else look not as good, you've harmed your own point. Good work.

 

[hamzarocks]

anytime youre adding lemieux into a category to try and make someone else look not as good, you've harmed your own point. Good work.

Is bossy a generational player? Is OV?

Are Bobby Hull or Brett Hull Generational players?

Your talking out of your ass and refuse to see the difference between a generational goal scorer and a generational player . Hence the 500 goals before 30 being mentioned and nothing with pts, rosses/harts/lindsays, all nhl teams, smythes being discussed

Its pure fanboying