Player Discussion Auston Matthews Discussion

[HamiltonNHL]

My guess is first a flu or a stomach bacteria followed by something like a compressed nut. You can pinch it pretty good in the wrong position like from a "weird hit" and only rest and ice will bring it back.

MUMPS ?

 

[hamzarocks]

How many points is a Selke nomination worth?

I think McDavid had a better season, but the players disagree, and I'll trust their opinion over mine.

Points are the easiest way to judge a player, but it is not all that matters.

Matthews can have the selke nomination just like marner had the selke nomination. The selke nomination for marner didnt make him better than wingers like Tkachuk, Pastrnak, Panarin etc

Nobody really thinks Matthews is better than Mcdavid lool

We will see who gets all NHL team 2nd honours as 1st team likely is going to Mackinnon

Any rational leaf fan would toss matthews out of here to get Mcdavid. A lindsay nomination doesnt change that lol. Mcdavid level of expectations are just at different level. If he was someone else he would be the hart & lindsay favorite for the oilers turnaround.

Mackinnon as well of course with how dominant he has been past 2 years should be ahead of Matthews who has a bad 2023 year.

Kucherov I wouldnt take over Matthews going forward. He had the better year this season but hes 31 or so. Matthews at 26. Matthews next 5 years should be ahead of kucherov for sure.

 

[notbias]

Matthews can have the selke nomination just like marner had the selke nomination. The selke nomination for marner didnt make him better than wingers like Tkachuk, Pastrnak, Panarin etc

Nobody really thinks Matthews is better than Mcdavid lool

We will see who gets all NHL team 2nd honours as 1st team likely is going to Mackinnon

Any rational leaf fan would toss matthews out of here to get Mcdavid. A lindsay nomination doesnt change that lol. Mcdavid level of expectations are just at different level. If he was someone else he would be the hart & lindsay favorite for the oilers turnaround.

Mackinnon as well of course with how dominant he has been past 2 years should be ahead of Matthews who has a bad 2023 year.

Kucherov I wouldnt take over Matthews going forward. He had the better year this season but hes 31 or so. Matthews at 26. Matthews next 5 years should be ahead of kucherov for sure.

The award is not about who is better... the award would then be given out to McDavid yearly and Mac and Matthews would get nominations every year.

You are arguing a point no one is disagreeing with, not sure what you're doing.

You are saying the writers/fans know better than the players, which I don't agree with.

 

[hamzarocks]

apparently the players on the other hand care


why did the players vote him top 3 for Ted Lindsay? are the writers smarter or the players?

No idea why players voted Matthews a sa finalist

Didnt think he deserved that at all. Mcdavid had 23 more pts and paced for 30 more pts thah Matthews

That is the 2nd time players have done Mcdavid dirty for the lindsay. First was 2022 when Matthews and Mcdavid should have split the hart and lindsay

And now 2024 when Mcdavid didnt get a finalist spot despite such a large gap in production.

He still has 4 lindsay wins but if the players keep voting him out for inferior players his chances of catching Gretzky wont be looking good

The award is not about who is better... the award would then be given out to McDavid yearly and Mac and Matthews would get nominations every year.

You are arguing a point no one is disagreeing with, not sure what you're doing.

You are saying the writers/fans know better than the players, which I don't agree with.

The lindsay is for best players usually

Matthews wouldnt be a lindsay finalist any year besides 2022 if the award was for best player

Hed lost his spot in 2021 when Mcdavid, Draisaitl, and Mackinnon were better than him

And he would lose the spot this year to Mcdavid if it were on that

The hart and lindsay are both not perfect awards. Biases come into play for both

 

[Sypher04]

Ted Lindsay finalist for the 3rd year in the last 4

 

[notbias]

No idea why players voted Matthews a sa finalist

Didnt think he deserved that at all. Mcdavid had 23 more pts and paced for 30 more pts thah Matthews

That is the 2nd time players have done Mcdavid dirty for the lindsay. First was 2022 when Matthews and Mcdavid should have split the hart and lindsay

And now 2024 when Mcdavid didnt get a finalist spot despite such a large gap in production.

He still has 4 lindsay wins but if the players keep voting him out for inferior players his chances of catching Gretzky wont be looking good


The lindsay is for best players usually

Matthews wouldnt be a lindsay finalist any year besides 2022 if the award was for best player

Hed lost his spot in 2021 when Mcdavid, Draisaitl, and Mackinnon were better than him

And he would lose the spot this year to Mcdavid if it were on that

The hart and lindsay are both not perfect awards. Biases come into play for both

I trust the players more than fans/writers.

They thought Matthews was the better player this year.

Maybe the gap of 37 goals was a bigger difference than the gap of 25 points.

Matthews had 93 primary points and McDavid had 94 primary points, so maybe they just experienced Matthews being more involved in similar amounts of goals, but Matthews personally, had way more goals.

Or maybe they see the PP as less of an impactful thing.

Maybe they consider a 200-foot player more important than an offensive player.

Not sure of the reasoning, but the players thought he was a better player this year.

 

[hamzarocks]

I trust the players more than fans/writers.

They thought Matthews was the better player this year.

Maybe the gap of 37 goals was a bigger difference than the gap of 25 points.

Matthews had 93 primary points and McDavid had 94 primary points, so maybe they just experienced Matthews being involved in similar amounts of goals, but Matthews had way more goals.

Or maybe they see the PP as less of an impactful thing.

Maybe they consider a 200-foot player more important than an offensive player.

Not sure the reasoning, but the players thought he was a better player this year.

The players look to be wrong as Mcdavid continues to dominate the playoffs, while Matthews had his annual 1 game playoff showing

Mcdavid is a routine threat for Hart/lindsay/Ross while Matthews is only a routine threat for the rocket.

Mcdavid is just a way more consistent and complete player with the offensive gap between the two being absurd.

Matthews inability to get assists isnt lost on anyone. Dude is a shit playmaker that cant drive his lines offense and get secondary assists. Hes no Mcdavid

 

[Sypher04]

The players look to be wrong as Mcdavid continues to dominate the playoffs, while Matthews had his annual 1 game playoff showing

Mcdavid is a routine threat for Hart/lindsay/Ross while Matthews is only a routine threat for the rocket.

Mcdavid is just a way more consistent and complete player with the offensive gap between the two being absurd.

Matthews inability to get assists isnt lost on anyone. Dude is a shit playmaker that cant drive his lines offense and get secondary assists. Hes no Mcdavid

Jesus Christ man, go touch some grass
Imagine being this miserable and incorrect

 

[notbias]

The players look to be wrong as Mcdavid continues to dominate the playoffs, while Matthews had his annual 1 game playoff showing

Mcdavid is a routine threat for Hart/lindsay/Ross while Matthews is only a routine threat for the rocket.

Mcdavid is just a way more consistent and complete player with the offensive gap between the two being absurd.

Matthews inability to get assists isnt lost on anyone. Dude is a shit playmaker that cant drive his lines offense and get secondary assists. Hes no Mcdavid

Now you're bringing up the playoffs... this does not factor into that... you're grasping for something.

Matthews is a threat for the Lindsay/Hart because he keeps getting nominated and he has won both.

The offensive gap is probably as large as the goal-scoring gap or the defensive gap, I agree, it's big.

Also, the offensive gap is usually minor and it is just a PP gap.

Matthews was 59th in assists and 52nd in first assists, and that is impressive since it is very hard to get assists when putting the puck in the net yourself.

 

[hamzarocks]

Now you're bringing up the playoffs... this does not factor into that... you're grasping for something.

Matthews is a threat for the Lindsay/Hart because he keeps getting nominated and he has won both.

The offensive gap is probably as large as the goal-scoring gap or the defensive gap, I agree, it's big.

Also, the offensive gap is usually minor and it is just a PP gap.

Matthews was 59th in assists and 52nd in first assists, and that is impressive since it is very hard to get assists when putting the puck in the net yourself.

There is no defensive gap of note

Matthews is a not a special defensive player. He will be a one time selke finalist like Mitch marner

The selke itself is award used to prop up lower tier players against higher caliber guys

Defense isnt more valuable than offense.

Matthews lags mcdavid there by an absurd amount.

You shut mcdavid down at 5v5 hes one of the best PP players ever.

We just saw the leafs choke to boston again due to our PP dying with the core guys failing to produce on the PP

Mcdavid as a goal scorer has shown he can hit 60 goals. Can matthews the playmaker even hit 60 assists (let alone 100)?

Matthews had the 4th to 6th best year in the league this year. He wasnt as good as the 3 guys for the ross though.

If he gets the 2nd team over McDavid then I can accept his year was better for 2023-2024 regular season

Mcdavids ELC years are comparable with Matthews prime years

Mcdavid ppg finishes: 3rd, 1st, 1st

2 Rosses, 1 hart, 2 lindsays

Matthews 2021, 2023, 2024:

7th I think in ppg, 3rd and 6th

3 rockets, 1 hart and 1 lindsay

 

[notbias]

There is no defensive gap of note

Matthews is a not a special defensive player. He will be a one time selke finalist like Mitch marner

The selke itself is award used to prop up lower tier players against higher caliber guys

Defense isnt more valuable than offense.

Matthews lags mcdavid there by an absurd amount.

You shut mcdavid down at 5v5 hes one of the best PP players ever.

We just saw the leafs choke to boston again due to our PP dying with the core guys failing to produce on the PP

Mcdavid as a goal scorer has shown he can hit 60 goals. Can matthews the playmaker even hit 60 assists (let alone 100)?

Matthews had the 4th to 6th best year in the league this year. He wasnt as good as the 3 guys for the ross though.

If he gets the 2nd team over McDavid then I can accept his year was better for 2023-2024 regular season

I'm done responding because facts only sometimes matter...

You are referencing 1st/2nd team all-stars over the Ted Lindsey, it is insane.

"Who cares if the players think he is better this year than McDavid, some hack writers thought McDavid was the 2nd best C, also those writers know nothing about defense, the Selke is irrelevant"

 

[pdson]

No idea why players voted Matthews a sa finalist

Didnt think he deserved that at all. Mcdavid had 23 more pts and paced for 30 more pts thah Matthews

That is the 2nd time players have done Mcdavid dirty for the lindsay. First was 2022 when Matthews and Mcdavid should have split the hart and lindsay

And now 2024 when Mcdavid didnt get a finalist spot despite such a large gap in production.

He still has 4 lindsay wins but if the players keep voting him out for inferior players his chances of catching Gretzky wont be looking good


The lindsay is for best players usually

Matthews wouldnt be a lindsay finalist any year besides 2022 if the award was for best player

Hed lost his spot in 2021 when Mcdavid, Draisaitl, and Mackinnon were better than him

And he would lose the spot this year to Mcdavid if it were on that

The hart and lindsay are both not perfect awards. Biases come into play for both

He wouldn't be a Lindsay finalist according to who you LOL what a joke . The players who play against him think differently.

 

[Jojalu]

The players look to be wrong as Mcdavid continues to dominate the playoffs, while Matthews had his annual 1 game playoff showing

Mcdavid is a routine threat for Hart/lindsay/Ross while Matthews is only a routine threat for the rocket.

Mcdavid is just a way more consistent and complete player with the offensive gap between the two being absurd.

Matthews inability to get assists isnt lost on anyone. Dude is a shit playmaker that cant drive his lines offense and get secondary assists. Hes no Mcdavid

The playoffs have nothing to do for regualr season awards sadly

 

[hamzarocks]

Jesus Christ man, go touch some grass
Imagine being this miserable and incorrect

Any leaf fan should take Mcdavid over Matthews whether its this season, next year or whenever.

This sort of overrating of our core players has gotten us nowhere.

Matthews is a generational goal scorer and Toronto maple leaf but he isnt a generational player like Mcdavid

 

[hamzarocks]

I'm done responding because facts only sometimes matter...

You are referencing 1st/2nd team all-stars over the Ted Lindsey, it is insane.

"Who cares if the players think he is better this year than McDavid, some hack writers thought McDavid was the 2nd best C, also those writers know nothing about defense, the Selke is irrelevant"

The NHL 2nd team + Hart nomination + 2nd in ppg/3rd in Art Ross is a better season than rocket win + selke nomination + NHL 3rd team (hed finish 3rd in this setting) + lindsay finalist

The Rocket and Selke are both always the weakest awards and are given/won by weaker overall players than players who compete for ross/hart/lindsay

OV has 9 rocket wins and no one has him top 5 player all time or ahead of Crosby

Bergeron has like 6 selkes and 9 finalists and no one has him as a top 50 player all time.

The ross + lindsay + hart + ALL NHL teams for centers (they are usually the best players in the league) is what is usually looked at for better season

If Matthews gets the 2nd team then his year is better than Mcdavid who is his direct competition for that spot.


The 2nd team is basically the tie breaker for this year. Both have a top 3 finish for a major award, Matthews won the rocket while Mcdavid led the leagues in assists (tied) led in APG (no award for assists otherwise he would have hardware to counter the rocket) and both had very high ppg finishes (2nd vs 6th)

3 of the top 5 players in the world are centers this year. So if Matthews gets 2nd team he is at worst 4th best and likely 3rd as Panarin didnt have a better year than matthews imo

 

[notbias]

The NHL 2nd team + Hart nomination + 2nd in ppg/3rd in Art Ross is a better season than rocket win + selke nomination + NHL 3rd team (hed finish 3rd in this setting) + lindsay finalist

I prefer the 2nd player... Lindsey > Hart

The first player didn't even win an award.

The Rocket and Selke are both always the weakest awards and are given/won by weaker overall players than players who compete for ross/hart/lindsay

You're rambling... but from what I see, Bergeron is SUPER overrated, might not even be good defensively.

Don't even get me started on Barkov...

OV has 9 rocket wins and no one has him top 5 player all time or ahead of Crosby

Looks like Ovi is overrated now too.

Bergeron has like 6 selkes and 9 finalists and no one has him as a top 50 player all time.

Exactly, the award doesn't matter, he is a bum.

The ross + lindsay + hart + ALL NHL teams for centers (they are usually the best players in the league) is what is usually looked at for better season

If Matthews gets the 2nd team then his year is better than Mcdavid who is his direct competition for that spot.

3 of the top 5 players in the world are centers this year. So if Matthews gets 2nd team he is at worst 4th best and likely 3rd as Panarin didnt have a better year than matthews imo

Lindsey > Hart > all-star team

 

[hamzarocks]

I prefer the 2nd player... Lindsey > Hart

The first player didn't even win an award.



You're rambling... but from what I see, Bergeron is SUPER overrated, might not even be good defensively.

Don't even get me started on Barkov...



Looks like Ovi is overrated now too.



Exactly, the award doesn't matter, he is a bum.



Lindsey > Hart > all-star team

That is your opinion

And there is maybe one poster more biased than you

OV is overrated in the same sense your overrating Matthews (OV vs Crosby and Matthews vs Mcdavid)

A clearly better player in Mcdavid, yet your using mental gymnastics to argue Matthews as the better player lool

Bergeron is one of the most overrated players ever. Zero individual accomplishments outside of selkes, played on stacked teams and was a 60 pt guy for 9 years of his career

People who said he was better than Matthews in 2019 and 2020 were insane.

Barkov is overrated if your comparing to a clearly better player in Matthews. Hes underrated if your comparing to someone else.

 

[Plural]

I trust the players more than fans/writers.

They thought Matthews was the better player this year.

Maybe the gap of 37 goals was a bigger difference than the gap of 25 points.

Matthews had 93 primary points and McDavid had 94 primary points, so maybe they just experienced Matthews being more involved in similar amounts of goals, but Matthews personally, had way more goals.

Or maybe they see the PP as less of an impactful thing.

Maybe they consider a 200-foot player more important than an offensive player.

Not sure of the reasoning, but the players thought he was a better player this year.

Players value goals. A lot. Kimmo Timonen said that if he would have a vote it would go to Matthews 100%

I don't know exactly why they value goals so much, might be just because from a simplistic POV, being a player, the game is all about scoring more goals than your opponent and looking at it with personal experience on how hard it is to score they might put a lot of emphasis on it.

Historically speaking, both Lindsay (Pearson) and Hart both have VERY questionable winners. Lindsay maybe bit more erratic, but neither is a perfect trophy in representing what they actualy should represent.

 

[notbias]

Players value goals. A lot. Kimmo Timonen said that if he would have a vote it would go to Matthews 100%

I don't know exactly why they value goals so much, might be just because from a simplistic POV, being a player, the game is all about scoring more goals than your opponent and looking at it with personal experience on how hard it is to score they might put a lot of emphasis on it.

Historically speaking, both Lindsay (Pearson) and Hart both have VERY questionable winners. Lindsay maybe bit more erratic, but neither is a perfect trophy in representing what they actualy should represent.

I'm assuming because the players know how hard it is to score.

I think the players have a much more complex view than the writers.

 

[Jojalu]

That is your opinion

And there is maybe one poster more biased than you

OV is overrated in the same sense your overrating Matthews (OV vs Crosby and Matthews vs Mcdavid)

A clearly better player in Mcdavid, yet your using mental gymnastics to argue Matthews as the better player lool

Bergeron is one of the most overrated players ever. Zero individual accomplishments outside of selkes, played on stacked teams and was a 60 pt guy for 9 years of his career

People who said he was better than Matthews in 2019 and 2020 were insane.

Barkov is overrated if your comparing to a clearly better player in Matthews. Hes underrated if your comparing to someone else.

This is all your opinion.

This is why forums were created I guess. To debate inconsequential topics.

No one knows why players keep voting for Matthews. We can only guess.

Perhaps they value scoring more as it's a tough thing to do. Combined with playing all world D.

It's a rare combination to do both.

But 3 out of the last 4 years he has been nominated so they are clearly seeing something that your bias will not allow.

He has not been great in the playoffs, and his salary has nothing to do with voting. It is simply who they believe had the better year

 

[hamzarocks]

This is all your opinion.

This is why forums were created I guess. To debate inconsequential topics.

No one knows why players keep voting for Matthews. We can only guess.

Perhaps they value scoring more as it's a tough thing to do. Combined with playing all world D.

It's a rare combination to do both.

But 3 out of the last 4 years he has been nominated so they are clearly seeing something that your bias will not allow.

He has not been great in the playoffs, and his salary has nothing to do with voting. It is simply who they believe had the better year

I do have matthews as the 4th best playet this year

The guy being argued against 3 of the past 4 seasons has some of the greatest individuals seasons on hockey

3 rosses, 2 harts, 2 lindsays, and 4 hart finalists, + 3 linsday finalists

He is probably better than how I view him due to seeing him play constantly which includes the playoffs that leads to bias against him

Mcdavid though I just rank higher than anyone now and possibly ever if he can grab another 3-4 ross/harts/lindsays and 2-3 cups

He just either wins or competes for all the awards every year. Been the undisputed best player since 2017-2018 (7 years).

For matthews to have a better year thsn him I would like to see the gap in offensive production be lower than 35 pts or so that it was

 

[Leafidelity]

The Selke nomination is a big stretch and the Hart finalists show it.

Not surprised Matthews isn’t up for the Hart.. the other three are a whole step up offensively this year as far as driving the play.

People will say but goals.. but apparently the voters don’t care.

The voters dont care, but it seems the players do

 

[Plural]

I'm assuming because the players know how hard it is to score.

I think the players have a much more complex view than the writers.

Well, complex or simplistic, it's different. One looks at it from outside with (or at least should) broader lense but with little to none personal experience on the league and sport itself. Players look at it from a closer POV with (supposedly) narrower landscape but heavy personal experience and understanding of the actual performances on the ice.

Which one is better to judge a players abilities? Don't know, both probably have good points in general but from different viewpoints.

 

[BraveCanadian]

The voters dont care, but it seems the players do

Hockey players aren’t too bright traditionally and those are different awards anyways so..

 

[BraveCanadian]

Nominated for the Ted Lindsay. I think i will take the actual players word over writers or yours.

Yeah remember that time Yzerman was better than prime Lemieux and Gretzky?

Yeah me either.. different awards.