Auston Matthews comparables

[blood gin]

Did Bryan trottier have trottier's defensive abilities when he was 21?

Good question. Did he receive Selke votes in 77-78? I think he was good defensively from the getgo and just got better

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Good question. Did he receive Selke votes in 77-78? I think he was good defensively from the getgo and just got better

Nope.

Trottier received his first Selke votes in 80-81, age 24.

Only got Selke votes in 6 of his 18 seasons.

 

[Canadiens1958]

What does that have to do with Trottier or Potvin?

Mathews at 21 does not have an eraser defenceman of Potvin's quality watching his back like Trottier did at 21.

 

[seventieslord]

He did.

In the absence of further research I'll have to believe you on that. I know very well what he was in his prime, but didn't know how early he developed.

 

[seventieslord]

Nope.

Trottier received his first Selke votes in 80-81, age 24.

Only got Selke votes in 6 of his 18 seasons.

Keep in mind that selke votes were damn near impossible to get if you were not Gainey or Ramsay for the first few years. Ballots only had three names on them. Trottier could have been excellent defensively and still no one could have considered him top-3 in the league. Not saying you're wrong but the selke voting doesn't prove that you're right.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Keep in mind that selke votes were damn near impossible to get if you were not Gainey or Ramsay for the first few years. Ballots only had three names on them. Trottier could have been excellent defensively and still no one could have considered him top-3 in the league. Not saying you're wrong but the selke voting doesn't prove that you're right.

Since I only stated 3 facts, don't see how I could be wrong. Unless Hockey Reference is incorrect.

 

[seventieslord]

Since I only stated 3 facts, don't see how I could be wrong. Unless Hockey Reference is incorrect.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I thought your point was that he wasn't great defensively right from the start.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Correct me if I'm wrong. I thought your point was that he wasn't great defensively right from the start.

Nope, was not my point. Like Joe Gannon, just stating the facts.

Just responded to Blood Gin who asked about Selke votes for Trottier when he was 21.

 

[authentic]

Tavares is probably the most similar in the way they both like to play within an arms reach of defenders and work in tight spaces around the net. They both rely on compete level and IQ more so than skills. Tavares spends more time behind the net though, where as Matthews hangs out in front of the net.

His combination size, unique release and appreciation of off-the-puck passing lanes makes him a difficult comparison historically. Centers typically aren't such goal-heavy scorers.

That couldn't be further from the truth so far this season. By far the main reason he's as good as he is would be his skill and IQ.

 

[authentic]

Mathews at 21 does not have an eraser defenceman of Potvin's quality watching his back like Trottier did at 21.

That's for sure. Half the time he's the one getting the puck out of his own end.

 

[filinski77]

To be honest, I have very high hopes and I'd be rather disappointed with a LeCavalier Stamkos hybrid, a Sundin or a Tavares. Sakic caliber would satisfy me.

His long-term offensive abilities following that magical age 21 to 24 goal-scoring Peak that Elite and or generational players tend to have, is difficult to project. But I think that we may be looking at something in the Joe sakic or Steve Yzerman or Bryan trottier range.I'm not quite sure how mature trottier's game was at a very young age, but I think Matthews is more mature than Sakic or Yzerman at the same age. He really has that feel of "a player you win with".

I agree with most of what you're saying except this.

In Sakic's 20 yr old season, he put up 102 points (40 more than 2nd on the team, and 57 more than 3rd) on a team that went 12-61-7. He pretty much was already at his best by his second year in the league.

 

[POVERTY]

Jesus Christ
Nelson Mandela
Wayne Gretzky

 

[seventieslord]

I agree with most of what you're saying except this.

In Sakic's 20 yr old season, he put up 102 points (40 more than 2nd on the team, and 57 more than 3rd) on a team that went 12-61-7. He pretty much was already at his best by his second year in the league.

you are bringing up the point that he was on a terrible team as though it hurt him for putting up high point point totals when it actually could be the exact opposite. It cuts both ways in those cases, on one hand he had no one good to play with, on the other hand, every team scores some goals, and if he's the only one who can...

I'm not saying that the answer lies on one side of the equation or the other, only that as it applies to auston Matthews, it's really hard to compare at that stage because in Auston's age 20 season he was on a very good team with plenty of other offensive options and his power play Ice time was inexplicably limited while he was the best even-strength scorer in the league.

 

[The Panther]

Nelson Mandela

He was a great man on and off the ice.

 

[filinski77]

you are bringing up the point that he was on a terrible team as though it hurt him for putting up high point point totals when it actually could be the exact opposite. It cuts both ways in those cases, on one hand he had no one good to play with, on the other hand, every team scores some goals, and if he's the only one who can...

I'm not saying that the answer lies on one side of the equation or the other, only that as it applies to auston Matthews, it's really hard to compare at that stage because in Auston's age 20 season he was on a very good team with plenty of other offensive options and his power play Ice time was inexplicably limited while he was the best even-strength scorer in the league.

Fair enough, for what it's worth, I feel both Joe and Matthews were both very mature players early on in their careers from a development standpoint.

 

[Neutrinos]

Modano/Malkin hybrid?

 

[arrbez]

Matthews is a really really hard player to find a comparable for. So few centres score more goals than assists to begin with that you don't start with many options.

From players I've seen, I keep coming back to Malkin for the sheer explosive skill coupled with size in the middle of the ice.

 

[authentic]

Modano/Malkin hybrid?

I can see it.

 

[BadgerBruce]

Matthews is a really really hard player to find a comparable for. So few centres score more goals than assists to begin with that you don't start with many options.

From players I've seen, I keep coming back to Malkin for the sheer explosive skill coupled with size in the middle of the ice.

Part of the reason finding a comparable is so difficult is because Matthews spent a huge portion of his youth trained by Boris Dorozhenko, a Ukrainian national who moved to Mexico in the 90s to help setup that country’s national program but around 2005 ended up living with the Matthews family in their homes and training Auston nearly every day.

You’d be hard pressed to find a current NHL player who didn’t rely on skills coaches/trainers from a young age, but the Matthews story takes this phenomenon one big step higher: skills training, primarily from Dorozhenko, virtually replaced any form of team-based training for the young Matthews boy. There are no stories about Matthews lighting up the AAA youth hockey world and showing everyone his greatness. Wasn’t a regular part of that scene.

Ovechkin had a somewhat similar youth (his mom, through her position within the former Soviet sports regime, arranged for a gruelling on-ice training regimen in lieu of organized/team-based play). To a lesser but still significant degree is the Pat Kane development path, where the 8 year old Buffalo area youth crossed the border to Fort Erie to become (according to the mythology) Darryl Belfry’s very first client.

At any rate, I’m not questioning that all 3 are enormously skilled and successful players, but I don’t think that “playmaking” usually comes immediately to mind when describing their primary gifts. All three could stickhandle in a phone booth though. I’ve wondered for years if the skills training industry is at least partially responsible for this, but I digress .....

 

[Neutrinos]

There is definitely some Heatley in Matthews' game, so how about a Malkin/Heatley hybrid?

 

[Canucks1096]

Not Mcdavid of course.

Thr user that said Joe Nieuwendyk is the best answer in my opinion.

Modano and Sakic. Not even close. Doesn't have Modano speed and Sakic playmaking