Auston Matthews 69 goals in 81 games, most goals scored since Lemieux in 1995-96

[JukofYork]

So Auston Matthews has already had a better CAREER than Ovechkin.

Holy shit.

On pace with a large sample size in the books? Yes.

 

[JukofYork]

Ya watching the games tells a different story. Matthews definitely more skilled but Imagine if Matthews had Hymans work ethic.

The last time I saw a shot like Mathews might be Brett Hull in his prime..Maybe Ovehckin but Ovie had a tonne of goals doing that one timer from the faceoff circle.

Mathews must have practiced his shot 12 hours a day since he was two years old. I dont really know anyone else who can hit spots like he does.

Since Hyman doesnt have the same accuracy it makes sense he has to work harder for his goals. I like Hyman though, good player.

 

[Ol' Jase]

On pace with a large sample size in the books? Yes.

This is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Buck Naked]

This is absolutely ridiculous.

Love it when people forget about age and health.

 

[nturn06]

I don’t think the argument is about who has the higher durability. Maybe make another thread for that

What we are talking about is goal scoring.

And I don’t remember counting a lockout season in ovechkin’s stats at all. How would you even do that? 0 goals in 0 games played? You’re not making any sense

Funny, that's exactly what you did when complaining that I had an extra full season for AO. You asked me to remove the 2011-12 season from my count, because his first 7 seasons included the lockout 04-05 season, just to make their numbers closer.

 

[HighAndTight]

On pace with a large sample size in the books? Yes.

On pace is a horrible argument unless its an all time great.

For example using Marios pace to fill in the games he missed isn't a bad thing as he had a career of stats to back it up.

 

[Ol' Jase]

On pace is a horrible argument unless its an all time great.

For example using Marios pace to fill in the games he missed isn't a bad thing as he had a career of stats to back it up.

Dude, this guy is claiming the Matthews has already had a better career than Ovechkin. He’s not claiming it’s possible, he’s saying it has already happened.

It isn’t possible to discuss things rationally with this level of delusion.

 

[Ezpz]

On pace with a large sample size in the books? Yes.

He was on pace for 70-something goals a few weeks back and doesn't seem like he'll even break 65 now. Matthews has shown multiple times that he doesn't actually score the goals he gets credited with by pace for missed games. He went what, five games, without a goal when trying for 60 a couple years ago? Pace said he'd have scored three or four in that period.

That's why actual goals matter. Ovy was pacing for 15 goals for the majority of this season and is going to actually hit 30.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Since entering the league, Auston Matthews has been the best goal scorer in the NHL.
I don't think there's much of an argument against that statement.

Will it continue giving him a shot at Ovechkin/Gretzky totals? Who knows? He has to stay healthy, age well, and have good teammates.
None of those are givens.

 

[lipstickjunkie]

Aren't you guys getting tired of the Matthews vs. Ovechkin debate? It's just the same exact points being made from either side day after day, week after week, month after month. It's exhausting. They're both awesome goal scorers. Just enjoy Ovechkin's run at Gretzky and Matthews' brilliance during his prime.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Since entering the league, Auston Matthews has been the best goal scorer in the NHL.
I don't think there's much of an argument against that statement.

Will it continue giving him a shot at Ovechkin/Gretzky totals? Who knows? He has to stay healthy, age well, and have good teammates.
None of those are givens.

I think he became the best goal scorer in the NHL in 2020 2021. Took him a few seasons but no big deal on that.

 

[HolyHagelin]

The entire reason era adjusting NHL stats even exists is an attempt to pull down Gretzky

Lolwut

Era adjusted numbers exist in every sport, it was one of the first things they tackled in the analytics revolution in baseball.

The baseball analytics revolution directly inspired the same thing across other sports.

Now every sport has eta adjusted numbers available readily for any fan to look up.

Do you have to take pills to get this crazy?

 

[Strangle]

Rocket is not that impressive this year when you are only 8 ahead of #2 and 3 TBH


Why, as a filthy goal scorer, was Matthews not given more PP time early on? Why would a coach not put the most lethal weapon out there more?

Ask the refs and the league

 

[Neil Racki]

Since entering the league, Auston Matthews has been the best goal scorer in the NHL.
I don't think there's much of an argument against that statement.

Hasnt old ass Ovi won 3 Rockets in that time frame?

IDK man .. I love american born Matthews as the next great goal scorer.. hate how his fan boys have to try and bring Ovi down.

You can praise AM without having to do mental gymnastics to diss Ovi.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Hasnt old ass Ovi won 3 Rockets in that time frame?

IDK man .. I love american born Matthews as the next great goal scorer.. hate how his fan boys have to try and bring Ovi down.

You can praise AM without having to do mental gymnastics to diss Ovi.

Not dissing Ovi at all, he's the greatest goal scorer of all-time.

 

[Toby91ca]

Rocket is not that impressive this year when you are only 8 ahead of #2 and 3 TBH

Really? Based on what? First, he's 8 ahead at the 70 game mark, so it's more like 10 for full season....not that it will end up there. In the previous 24 times the award has been handed out, the average lead is 5 goals and it's been 10 or more only 5 times.

The most impressive leads, if you adjust for games would have been 1) Bure in 2000 - 14 goal lead, 2) Ovechkin in 2008 - 13 goal lead and 3) Matthews in 2021 ~ 13 goals - actual was 8 goal lead, but in only 50 or so game season due to COVID.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Really? Based on what? First, he's 8 ahead at the 70 game mark, so it's more like 10 for full season....not that it will end up there. In the previous 24 times the award has been handed out, the average lead is 5 goals and it's been 10 or more only 5 times.

The most impressive leads, if you adjust for games would have been 1) Bure in 2000 - 14 goal lead, 2) Ovechkin in 2008 - 13 goal lead and 3) Matthews in 2021 ~ 13 goals - actual was 8 goal lead, but in only 50 or so game season due to COVID.

You guys really have to stop doing this.

It's ok to use real numbers, it doesn't diminish Matthew's abilities or accomplishments.

 

[KnightofBoston]

can he hit 70?

Definitely think so

Hasnt old ass Ovi won 3 Rockets in that time frame?

IDK man .. I love american born Matthews as the next great goal scorer.. hate how his fan boys have to try and bring Ovi down.

You can praise AM without having to do mental gymnastics to diss Ovi.

this is the entire internet's MO, and often time's just human MO

it's why we see wild swings instead of gradual reasonable changes


There always seems to be some kind of well this sucks now mentality in order to praise something else. Humans can be negative by nature and the internet gives that mentality a shot of adrenaline

 

[filinski77]

Hasnt old ass Ovi won 3 Rockets in that time frame?

IDK man .. I love american born Matthews as the next great goal scorer.. hate how his fan boys have to try and bring Ovi down.

You can praise AM without having to do mental gymnastics to diss Ovi.

Yes, not only did a 32/33/34 year old Ovechkin win 3 straight rockets over a 20/21/22 year old Matthews, a 37 year old Ovechkin also beat a 25 year old Matthews in goals last year.

4/8 of the seasons in Matthews career, he's been beaten in goals by a 32-37 year old Ovechkin who is nowhere near as good of a goal scorer as he was when he was younger.

 

[Toby91ca]

Hasnt old ass Ovi won 3 Rockets in that time frame?

IDK man .. I love american born Matthews as the next great goal scorer.. hate how his fan boys have to try and bring Ovi down.

You can praise AM without having to do mental gymnastics to diss Ovi.

Agreed. Matthews is #1 since he entered the league, but pretty impressive that OV is tied for 2nd during that time seeing as it's his age 31+ seasons. Matthews in less games, but that's part of the issue here.

People can keep pointing to where Matthews is at the same point in his career or age vs. OV (I do the same thing all the time), but we are way too far away from talking about whether he can catch OV on career totals. It's going to take 1) being able to play a lot of games for a long time....which is a significant achievement on its own and 2) being able to keep scoring consistently during that time....even a bigger achievement.....OV has done both of these things, which is why he's getting close to the record. We can talk about how Matthews may be scoring more goals right now, but we can defer the rest of the conversion for another 8 years or so. OV is where he is because he dominates goal scoring year after year.....he's had a couple where he's dominated, but it's been more consistency....always being at or near the top, doesn't have to be by a lot....but the other guys winning the goal scoring title come and go various years, but if he's always near the top, he's going to dominate cumulatively if there isn't other guys putting up high totals consistently.

 

[Toby91ca]

You guys really have to stop doing this.

It's ok to use real numbers, it doesn't diminish Matthew's abilities or accomplishments.

I get it....I'm not sounding the horn about Matthew's goals per game and how it's so much better and if you extrapolate for missed games he'd have "x" 50 goal seasons, etc. Missed games is part of the deal, if you are hurt, that's part of the deal....there's what ifs and when it comes down to it, you didn't do it.

That said, you need context sometimes too.....in example the COVID year, everyone only played 50ish games and an 8 goal lead that year is not the same as an 8 goal lead for an 82 game season. I will absolutely acknowledge though, had the season been another 25-30 games longer, perhaps his 8 goal lead slips away, so there is that.

The whole reason for my comments were due to the someone suggesting that the rocket doesn't mean much this year if it's only an 8 goal lead.....which is false of course....8 is fairly significant historically.

 

[Nsjohnson]

Wait some people are actually trying to argue that Ovechkin played in a higher scoring era? Was this sarcasm?

 

[JukofYork]

On pace is a horrible argument unless its an all time great.

For example using Marios pace to fill in the games he missed isn't a bad thing as he had a career of stats to back it up.

Its actually a very common 'argument' and extremely reliable when a significant sample size is used. Which it is in this case.

Hasnt old ass Ovi won 3 Rockets in that time frame?

IDK man .. I love american born Matthews as the next great goal scorer.. hate how his fan boys have to try and bring Ovi down.

You can praise AM without having to do mental gymnastics to diss Ovi.

Seems to me you are trying to bring Mathews down and pump up Ovi. Everyone in here realizes Ovi is one of the greatest goal scorers to ever play in the NHL. Most of us are just saying Mathews is on pace to beat him. Which is crazy.

 

[authentic]

Since 18/19, Matthews has scored 78 PP goals while the Leafs have had 1243 PP opportunities.

Ovechkin's Caps were 18th in the league from 05/06 to 13/14.

If the Leafs were getting the 17th most PPs since 18/19 it would mean that Leafs would have had about 70 more PPs and Matthews would have about 4 or 5 more PP goals over that timeframe.

PP goalscoring is basically irrelevant in a comparison.

Ovechkin spent 3108:10 on the powerplay in his first 8 seasons (601gp) trailing only Kovalchuk in that timeframe

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Matthews has spent 1630:30 so far in his career (551gp) trailing 47 other players

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

That's an enormous difference in powerplay opportunities and cannot be written off as irrelevant

Wait some people are actually trying to argue that Ovechkin played in a higher scoring era? Was this sarcasm?

Check my post above. If you consider the amount of powerplay time he got it entirely erases the difference in scoring levels... This isn't an "arguably" thing either, it's an actual fact.

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

The quietest 59 goals ever scored.