ATD2020 lineup advice thread

[TheDevilMadeMe]

We usually have one of these by now.

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[kruezer]

Been thinking about my PP units. Housley will run the top unit, I was thinking of going with 4 forwards, but not sure if any of my team have experience at the point on the PP. Anyone have any idea if Giroux, Thornton, Modano or Propp have any PP point experience?

EDIT: Not sure if Darragh or Smith could work but I'd been debating if having Darragh as the triggerman on Unit 1 or Smith as the net front guy on unit 1 made more sense. I figure Giroux and Thornton need to be on Unit 1, with Housley, but debating the rest.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Been thinking about my PP units. Housley will run the top unit, I was thinking of going with 4 forwards, but not sure if any of my team have experience at the point on the PP. Anyone have any idea if Giroux, Thornton, Modano or Propp have any PP point experience?

EDIT: Not sure if Darragh or Smith could work but I'd been debating if having Darragh as the triggerman on Unit 1 or Smith as the net front guy on unit 1 made more sense. I figure Giroux and Thornton need to be on Unit 1, with Housley, but debating the rest.

I'm pretty sure Giroux played point on the PP at times, but Giroux-Housley on the points seems kind of like a SHGA waiting to happen. But it might be worth it anyway.

 

[VanIslander]

Thornton at the point on the pp???!

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

Been thinking about my PP units. Housley will run the top unit, I was thinking of going with 4 forwards, but not sure if any of my team have experience at the point on the PP. Anyone have any idea if Giroux, Thornton, Modano or Propp have any PP point experience?

EDIT: Not sure if Darragh or Smith could work but I'd been debating if having Darragh as the triggerman on Unit 1 or Smith as the net front guy on unit 1 made more sense. I figure Giroux and Thornton need to be on Unit 1, with Housley, but debating the rest.

only one point is ok. Umbrella formation

 

[Johnny Engine]

only one point is ok. Umbrella formation

As long as you have a clear idea of who's taking care of what roles, yeah.
To this day, you'll still see on of the forwards (usually one who is playing a "flank" role) line up at the blueline on faceoffs. I personally like to list my power play units in groups of 1-3-1, simply because it's a little more illustrative of what everyone brings to the table. If you see a defenseman listed in a flank position, that's the guy I expect to be more aggressive, either as a big shooter or a wandering playmaker. In the ATD there's also a wealth of rovers and multi-positional guys that fit this modern role like a glove. But ideally you'd want two guys who are comfortable getting back against a counter attack on each unit.

 

[Dreakmur]

Any thoughts on Anatoli Firsov vs Bernie Morris on the top PP unit?

Firsov is probably the better offensive player, but I really like him on my top PK unit. Top unit on both units probably overloads his ice time, right?

 

[VanIslander]

Who goes to the net on the pp units?

 

[Dreakmur]

Gordie Howe and Camille Henry are the locks up front. Both can be excellent net guys... but ideally Henry is there.

 

[VanIslander]

Then choose the guy with better puckhandling and positioning.

Unlike Selke defensive fowards, pp and pk guys needn't have speed or bodychecking.

Puckhandling and positioning are far more important on special teams.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Any thoughts on Anatoli Firsov vs Bernie Morris on the top PP unit?

Firsov is probably the better offensive player, but I really like him on my top PK unit. Top unit on both units probably overloads his ice time, right?

I don't think Firsov should be top unit straight across. Seems you'd have to give him either too much ice time or short your other top liners ice time. You can't draft a PK specialist to drop Firsov to a lower PK unit? Real life example - Zetterberg was likely Detroit's top PK player, he was their guy on that famous 5-on-3 in the playoffs. But in the regular season (and maybe less important PKs in the playoffs?), he wasn't even top unit, to manage his icetime. Basically, the offense of a strong two-way star is often less replaceable by a lesser player than his defense.

Gordie Howe is the only forward I think with the stamina to play first unit straight across, and even then, I wouldn't always do it. Edit: I wrote this before I remembered that you have Howe on the same team!

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Gordie Howe and Camille Henry are the locks up front. Both can be excellent net guys... but ideally Henry is there.

Isn't being a PP net guy Henry's main ATD talent?

 

[Dreakmur]

Isn't being a PP net guy Henry's main ATD talent?

Yes.

 

[Dreakmur]

I don't think Firsov should be top unit straight across. Seems you'd have to give him either too much ice time or short your other top liners ice time. You can't draft a PK specialist to drop Firsov to a lower PK unit? Real life example - Zetterberg was likely Detroit's top PK player, he was their guy on that famous 5-on-3 in the playoffs. But in the regular season (and maybe less important PKs in the playoffs?), he wasn't even top unit, to manage his icetime. Basically, the offense of a strong two-way star is often less replaceable by a lesser player than his defense.

Gordie Howe is the only forward I think with the stamina to play first unit straight across, and even then, I wouldn't always do it. Edit: I wrote this before I remembered that you have Howe on the same team!

As of right now, Firsov is on the 2nd line, 2nd PP, and 1st PK. He'll probably play 1st line minutes by taking a few shifts from Dean Prentice.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

My 4th line looks to be Drury, Mackell and Roberts. I know both Mackell and Drury played LW, but I don't know how much exactly. Should it be Mackell at C and Drury at LW or vice versa?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

My 4th line looks to be Drury, Mackell and Roberts. I know both Mackell and Drury played LW, but I don't know how much exactly. Should it be Mackell at C and Drury at LW or vice versa?

I've drafted MacKell before and looked into this closely. Every good or even decent offensive season he had was as a center. He did play several seasons at LW, but he was just a grinder then. Drury actually was able to put up decent numbers at both positions - use him at LW.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

I've drafted MacKell before and looked into this closely. Every good or even decent offensive season he had was as a center. He did play several seasons at LW, but he was just a grinder then. Drury actually was able to put up decent numbers at both positions - use him at LW.

Was mackell a lw in toronto then C full time in boston?

And do you have an approximation of which season drury played which position? The only ones i got right now are the ones where he received AST votes

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Was mackell a lw in toronto then C full time in boston?

And do you have an approximation of which season drury played which position? The only ones i got right now are the ones where he received AST votes

MacKell was a full time C during all his good years in Boston. I don't remember if he ever played LW after he declined, but I know he did at least some of the time as a young player in Toronto. I think Hockey-reference gives a halfway decent approximation if you look season by season...

Drury - strict C in Buffalo and NYR. LW in Colorado when both Sakic and Forsberg were healthy. I know he played both LW and C when one of them was injured; not sure how much of each. Not sure what he played in his 1 season in Calgary.

 

[Namba 17]

Frank Foyston - Marty Barry - Andy Bathgate
Herbie Lewis - Marcel Dionne - Jimmy Ward
Harry Watson - Murray Oliver - Danny Gare (C)
Percy Galbraith - Troy Murray - Bruce MacGregor

Babe Pratt - Ray Bourque (A)
Barry Beck (A) - Bob Armstrong
- Karel Gut

This is my team so far. So far I gave Gare a C and both Beck and Bourque - an A.
How do you think, is it right? Or, probably, Bourque deserves a C before Gare?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Frank Foyston - Marty Barry - Andy Bathgate
Herbie Lewis - Marcel Dionne - Jimmy Ward
Harry Watson - Murray Oliver - Danny Gare (C)
Percy Galbraith - Troy Murray - Bruce MacGregor

Babe Pratt - Ray Bourque (A)
Barry Beck (A) - Bob Armstrong
- Karel Gut

This is my team so far. So far I gave Gare a C and both Beck and Bourque - an A.
How do you think, is it right? Or, probably, Bourque deserves a C before Gare?

I would definitely give Bourque a C over Gare. Better player, captain for longer.

 

[Namba 17]

I would definitely give Bourque a C over Gare. Better player, captain for longer.

Thanks!

 

[VanIslander]

Are you kidding?

Even the Bleacher Report, who ranked the top 5 captains in Bruins history, of course listed 15-year captain Bourque #1.

I hated the Bruins growing up (major late 70s/80s rivalry) but i loved Raymond. The only equivalent in my lifetime was Yzerman on the Dead Wings.

If you were there and did not appreciate Bourque and Yzerman, then you don't like hockey.

(Seriously, love or hate Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, Ovechkin... but to not see the incredible blue collar 100% effort every bloody shift inspirational leadership of Bourque and Yzerman is unfathomable).

Has any ATD team ever drafted Bourque or Yzerman and NOT made them captain? What would happen to the universe if one team managed to draft both? I. Can't. See. It.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Has any ATD team ever drafted Bourque or Yzerman and NOT made them captain? What would happen to the universe if one team managed to draft both? I. Can't. See. It.

In 2013 co-GMing with Sturminator we had Ray Bourque on the team but Boris Mikhailov was our Kaptain (only captain to wear the "K"). We won the championship too.

That said I agree with your overall point.

 

[Sturminator]

In 2013 co-GMing with Sturminator we had Ray Bourque on the team but Boris Mikhailov was our Kaptain (only captain to wear the "K"). We won the championship too.

That said I agree with your overall point.

The K was definitely my favorite part of that team, but it was not the only ATD champ on which Mikhailov, himself, wore the K. He also did it for rmartin two years ago. That 2013 champ was, I believe, the ATD winner that won by the narrowest of margins, going to tiebreakers in the quarterfinals, semifinals, and finals, consecutively.

First year of VsX being a thing in the ATD, as well, iirc.

 

[BenchBrawl]

The K was definitely my favorite part of that team, but it was not the only ATD champ on which Mikhailov, himself, wore the K. He also did it for rmartin two years ago. That 2013 champ was, I believe, the ATD winner that won by the narrowest of margins, going to tiebreakers in the quarterfinals, semifinals, and finals, consecutively.

First year of VsX being a thing in the ATD, as well, iirc.

The K was a nice touch. Icing on the cake.

You're right, forgot Mikhailov was rmartin65's kaptain in 2018.

Those narrow margins made your debating skills all the more important in retrospective. If it had been me debating, we would have lost.

Yes, you created the original VsX thread in 2013 I believe. Like all systems, I feel VsX has been abused in recent years—used in questionable contexts—but it was a much needed revolution back then. A major advance in cross-era comparisons.