ATD2011 Thomas D. Greem Semi: (2) Guelph Platers vs. (3) Jokerit Helsinki

Dreakmur

Registered User
Mar 25, 2008
18,686
6,957
Orillia, Ontario


Guelph Platers
1986 Memorial Cup Champions

Coach: Al Arbour
Player Development Consultant: Gary Roberts

Clark Gillies - Bryan Trottier - Rick Middleton
John Ogrodnick - Rick MacLeish - Rene Robert
Mike McPhee - Dave Poulin - Yuri Lebedev
Martin Gelinas - Jason Arnott - Rick Vaive

Mike Ramsey - Guy Lapointe
Steve Smith - Eric Desjardins
Jamie Macoun - Reijo Ruotsalainen

Walter "Turk" Broda
Felix "the Cat" Potvin

Reserves
Craig Simpson - Sylvain Lefebvre - Dmitri Khristich

Powerplay:
PP1: Rick Middleton - Bryan Trottier - Rick Vaive - Guy Lapointe - Eric Desjardins
PP2: John Ogrodnick - Rick MacLeish - Rene Robert - Steve Smith - Reijo Ruotsalainen

Penalty Kill:
PK1: Dave Poulin - Rick MacLeish - Mike Ramsey - Guy Lapointe
PK2: Bryan Trottier - Rick Middleton - Steve Smith - Eric Desjardins

VS.

JOKERIT

150px-Jokerit_Logo.svg.png


Head Coach: Mike Babcock

#9 Bobby Hull - #25 Jacques Lemaire - #19 Vic Stasiuk
#11 Kirk Muller* - #21 Peter Forsberg - #16 Brett Hull
#23 Chris Drury - #7 Neal Broten - #4 Jimmy Ward
#10 Gaetan Duchesne - #27 Doug Jarvis - #14 Barney Stanley
#15 Craig Janney
#24 Bill Fairbairn

#2 Derian Hatcher - #3 Reg Noble
#5 Ulf Samuelsson - #28 Brian Rafalski
#17 Rod Seiling - #33 Ron Stackhouse
#20 Jyrki Lumme
#8 Miroslav Dvorak


#1 Harry Lumley
#31 Mike Liut

PP1:
Forsberg - Hull - Muller*
Hull - Rafalski

PP2:
Lemaire - Stasiuk - Drury*
Broten - Noble

PK1:
Jarvis - Duchesne
Hatcher - Noble

PK2:
Broten - Drury
Samuelsson - Seiling

PK3:
Jarvis - Ward
Hatcher - Noble​
 

BraveCanadian

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
14,830
3,782
First off I would like to say that I think we have a tough opponent on our hands in our first playoff matchup.

Jokerit has, in particular, two very strong first lines build around the Hull - Lemaire and Forsberg - Hull duos. Stasiuk and Muller complement them very well with their effort and grit.

Having said that, the building blocks of our team are players that are outstanding playoff performers and with our leadership I expect nothing less out of them here.

Therefore, taking full use of our home ice advantage for Al Arbour to get the matchups we're looking for, our strategies in this series will be as follows:


Desired Matchups:

1) (Platers 1 vs. Jokerit 1) We want to face the Lemaire line power on power with our Trottier line and first defensive pairing.

2) (Platers 3 vs. Jokerit 2) Our Poulin line will be matched against the Forsberg line as much as possible.

3) (Platers 2 vs. Jokerit 3) The MacLeish line will try to play against the Broten line and create a mismatch.

4) (Platers 4 vs. Jokerit 4) Our fourth line will play against their fourth line


Strategies Employed:

Matchup 1

On Offense:

Trottier's line will be two main options on offense: Creative playmaking/shooting by either of Trottier and Middleton while Gillies causes havoc going to the net or dumping the puck to Gillies corner to use their physicality to cycle. Against Hatcher/Noble they will most likely try to force Hatcher to skate by rushing him to the outside with speed to beat him, or curling at the blueline to force him to stand up before dumping to the corner. Any time they are out against Rafalski in particular they will favour dumping the puck with speed to Rafalski's corner and let Gillies and/or Trottier go get his licks in.

On Defense:

I believe that Trottier is very strong on faceoffs which will help, and he will generally attempt to limit Lemaire's ability to get the puck to Hull. Middleton's smart two way play will be hindering Hull from receiving passes and when he does get them. Lapointe is already waiting on Hull's side when he hits our zone.


Matchup 2

On Offense:

We're not counting on them for much offense, but Poulin and Lebedev's puck control in particular have some threat offensively to counterattack when they get the chance. McPhee can crash the net for garbage. Any time this line is out against Rafalski they will almost certainly dump into his corner and let McPhee and/or Poulin get his licks in and start a cycle down low.


On Defense:

Poulin will out and out shadow Forsberg and attempt to limit his ability to create plays for Brett Hull. I believe that Poulin will win a lot of draws against Forsberg which will help right off the bat. McPhee and Steve Smith (who we will try to get out against Brett Hull) will try to punish Hull physically for every inch / opportunity he gets.



Matchup 3:

On Offense:

Whenever we are able to get this matchup I believe that our line will have a significant chance to create offense. Somewhat opposite to our first line they will have the option of letting Robert dig in the right corner or MacLeish making something from nothing. Either will have the chance of setting up Ogrodnick for a bomb if he gets free - which I believe will be very possible.


On Defense:

MacLeish and Robert on our second line are very responsible and I feel good about them in general against Broten/Drury/Ward. Ogrodnick isn't as good a checker but will act as a stretch threat to transition with effect.



Matchup 4:

We hope to use their speed to somewhat negate Jokerit's fourth line while generating some chances of their own. Unless they have a fairly clear opening they will play a somewhat strict dump and chase to wear down the opposing players and utilize their speed to get down low which should create some openings for Vaive slipping out to the top of the circle for his slapshot.





We will try to create the above matchups for even strength success but even if we are unable to gain a clear advantage at ES, I also feel we can count on our special teams to tip the games in our favour:

PP:

Our first powerplay unit is particularly deadly utilizing Lapointe (who was noted for running the 70s Habs dynasty PP) as the quarterback with a big point shot. Trottier is an upper level playmaker and will have a big shooting option on both sides with Vaive playing right and Middleton playing off the half boards on the left with his right-handed shot. Not to mention Trottier can score himself.

Our second powerplay unit is also solid with an outstandingly talented quarterback in Reijo Ruotsalainen. He brings a bomb of a shot from the point and Steve Smith gives the option of a good shot too. Up front Ogrodnick and MacLeish are triggers and Robert can win pucks back and setup.

PK:

The 1st and 2nd penalty killing units are almost interchangeable which gives us the advantage of being able to rest players a bit who are becoming overworked and by having a consistently strong opposition to the powerplays against us. They will be very aggressive at attempting to force the forwards playing the point on Jokerit's powerplay into situations they don't like.




In additon to these specific strategies, in general we will attempt to play a disciplined but physically grinding game utilizing our full bench. We will definitely be attempting to force Hatcher into positions where his speed hurts him and trying to wear down Rafalski physically with the hope of taking advantage of him late in games or late in the series. If he is left in the top 4 for ice time, he will be hard to shelter from it.

I think it will be a great series!
 

nik jr

Registered User
Sep 25, 2005
10,798
7
sorry, i forgot about this b/c of playoffs. i must have also missed the voting for 4 vs 5 series, but i did not get any PM's about them.

i voted guelph 1st in the division. very well constructed team and well balanced with no serious weaknesses.



matchups
main matchup i want is hatcher and noble against trottier's line. both were very physical and strong defensively, which i think is necessary against the power of gillies and trottier. noble's great speed will help cover for hatcher's lack of speed. gillies and trottier are not speedy players, though, so hatcher's lack of speed is not as big a problem as it would be against faster players.

i want samuelsson and rafalski against macleish's line. rod seiling will sometimes replace rafalski on the 2nd pair, particularly for defensive zone faceoffs.

my 1st or 2nd line will be out for shifts against guelph's 3rd pair whenever feasible.


defense
babcock employs a pressure game in which the puck carrier is pressured continuously. almost all of my F's were good defensively and most have the speed to play a pressure game. only F's who were questionable defensively were the hulls, and bobby hull was one of the fastest skaters in history.

C's are particularly important in this style of play, and all my C's were good skaters and good defensively.

when lumley was voted best goalie in '54 and '55, he had a physical d-corps that protected the front of the net. physicality of hatcher and samuelsson is well known, but noble was also very physical and a great hitter.

transition:
my d-corps is not ideally suited for quick transition, but noble and rafalski are very fast, and i think the position of my F's in the defensive zone (low more than high) and their speed will aid the transition out of the defensive zone.


faceoffs
i was anticipating being able to get matchups i want based on winning faceoffs, but faceoffs are a strength of both teams, and i don't know who would win more. i think jarvis is the best faceoff man in this series. his line will be used mostly for defensive zone faceoffs and PK.

poulin will probably not win many faceoffs against forsberg, b/c kirk muller will take most of them.

1st and 2nd lines will get most of the offensive zone faceoffs.

i do not know really anything about lemaire's faceoff ability.


crease monkeys
babcock puts much emphasis on F's playing near the net, screening, deflections, garbage goals, etc. he likes to have at least 1 player on each line who plays that role.

these roles would be filled by stanley, probably ward, and stasiuk and muller, who both played this role in their careers.

broda is better than lumley, so screens, deflections, rebounds and garbage goals are important.


lapointe was injury prone.
forsberg is well known for injuries, but lapointe also suffered many injuries. ankle, cheekbone, eye, knee

lapointe played less than 70 games in more than 1/2 of his 14 seasons, and played less than 60 games in 6 of 14 seasons.

after the habs' dynasty ended, lapointe did not play 60 games in a season.

lapointe missed games in 6 of 13 playoffs ('77, '78, '79, '80, '81, '82).


forsberg the goalscorer
forsberg is often criticized for being a weak goalscorer, but in the playoffs he was more aggressive and scored more goals. in the playoffs, forsberg actually scored goals at a higher rate than prime trottier, even though trottier played in a much higher scoring era.

trottier's last point per game season was '88.
trottier '76-'88: .374 goals per playoff game (age 19-31)
forsberg: .424 goals per playoff game (age 21-34)

trottier scored 0p in '88 playoffs, with '88 removed....
trottier '76-'87: .382
forsberg: .424

trottier '76-'84: .362 (age 19-26)
forsberg: .424

peak trottier '80-'84: .469 (age 23-27)
forsberg: .424

forsberg obviously played in a lower scoring period.

trottier was a playmaker more than a goalscorer, as was forsberg, and passing to bossy is probably a better play than not passing to him, but fortunately for me, trottier does not have bossy in this series.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,982
Brooklyn
I know Rick Middleton was a fine two-way player, but can you give me more specifics? Did he ever shut anyone down in the playoffs? Selke record, things like that. I think it's obvious why I'm asking.
 

BillyShoe1721

Terriers
Mar 29, 2007
17,252
6
Philadelphia, PA
9th in Selke voting in 82-83, and 4th in Selke voting 83-84 were his only relevant finishes. Not bad for a 1st line RW, one of the better 1st line RWs defensively.
 

BraveCanadian

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
14,830
3,782
I know Rick Middleton was a fine two-way player, but can you give me more specifics? Did he ever shut anyone down in the playoffs? Selke record, things like that. I think it's obvious why I'm asking.

If I managed to search the voting records correctly, he received Selke votes in three seasons: 78-79, 82-83 and 83-84 which was his best showing at 4th place. 78-79 was a token vote or two and as Billy says, not particularly telling of anything.

He isn't a shutdown guy, he's a two-way guy but his speed and smarts combined with Trottier in the middle and Lapointe's skating should give us the tools to limit the damage by the elder Hull.

I like how Middleton and Lapointe match up on his side when we are able to get them out against Hull.
 

Sturminator

Love is a duel
Feb 27, 2002
9,894
1,070
West Egg, New York
9th in Selke voting in 82-83, and 4th in Selke voting 83-84 were his only relevant finishes. Not bad for a 1st line RW, one of the better 1st line RWs defensively.

In an era where the lion's share of the Selke votes were going to pure defensive forwards, Middleton's record is actually extremely good for a two way player. He'd have won at least one and maybe as many as three Selkes had his career started in the mid-90's, in my opinion. Middleton is really quite underrated by people who aren't old enough to have seen him, both because of the differences in Selke criteria in his era and because he was really the only elite offensive forward on a team of grinders. GBC's man-love for Middleton was one of the few points on which we agreed.
 

BraveCanadian

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
14,830
3,782
In an era where the lion's share of the Selke votes were going to pure defensive forwards, Middleton's record is actually extremely good for a two way player. He'd have won at least one and maybe as many as three Selkes had his career started in the mid-90's, in my opinion. Middleton is really quite underrated by people who aren't old enough to have seen him, both because of the differences in Selke criteria in his era and because he was really the only elite offensive forward on a team of grinders. GBC's man-love for Middleton was one of the few points on which we agreed.

Yeah Middleton was really something.

Also you're right that the criteria seemed to shift in the earlier 80's as Clarke was winding down his career. It started going to more pure defensive players for the most part (with a couple exceptions) until Gilmour and Feds turned it back around again.

Here is some extras from Hockey Outsiders compliation of intangibles.

RICK MIDDLETON

Best defensive forward | 4th | 1984
Best penalty killer | 2nd | 1984
Best skater | 3rd | 1984
Best stickhandler | 2nd | 1984
Most dangerous near goal | 3rd | 1984
Most natural ability | 4th | 1984
Smartest player | 5th | 1984
 
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BillyShoe1721

Terriers
Mar 29, 2007
17,252
6
Philadelphia, PA
Where would you rank him in terms of 1st line RWs defensively? I'd say he's behind Kurri, but what about guys like Broadbent, Howe, Alfredsson, Ace Bailey, and Mickey MacKay
 

Sturminator

Love is a duel
Feb 27, 2002
9,894
1,070
West Egg, New York
Where would you rank him in terms of 1st line RWs defensively? I'd say he's behind Kurri, but what about guys like Broadbent, Howe, Alfredsson, Ace Bailey, and Mickey MacKay

Actually, I think MacKay is ahead of Kurri. After Kurri and MacKay, I'd probably rank them Broadbent, Middleton, Bailey, Howe and Alfredsson, in that order.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,197
7,345
Regina, SK
Guelph defeats Helsinki in 6 games.

3 stars:

Trottier
Bobby Hull
Forsberg

also a factor: Broda, Middleton, Lapointe, Brett Hull
 

nik jr

Registered User
Sep 25, 2005
10,798
7
congratulations BC

you had the better team and deserved to win. good luck in the next rounds.
 

BraveCanadian

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
14,830
3,782
congratulations BC

you had the better team and deserved to win. good luck in the next rounds.

Thanks Nik, I liked how my team matched up with yours but I was still worried about the big guns you had!

I will need some luck in the next round

What an upset by the Fireworks!


For some reason I thought that I read St
Pats on the thread page but I am on my phone so it gets jumbled.
 
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