ATD2011 Foster Hewitt Semi: (2) Hartford Whalers vs. (3) Montreal Canadiens

[Stoneberg]

Hartford Whalers
Coach: Peter Laviolette
Assistant coach: Alf Smith
Busher Jackson - Bobby Clarke (C) - Punch Broadbent
J.P. Parise - Joe Nieuwendyk (A) - Bill Mosienko
Dave Trottier - Joel Otto - John McKenzie
Doc Romnes - Erich Kühnhackl - Pat Verbeek
Igor Liba, Ladislav Trojak

Herb Gardiner (A) - Börje Salming
Paul Reinhart - Ott Heller
Glen Wesley - Phil Russell
Steve Chiasson

Ed Belfour
Riley Hern

PP1: Busher Jackson - Joe Nieuwendyk - Bobby Clarke - Paul Reinhart - Börje Salming
PP2: Punch Broadbent - Erich Kühnhackl - Bill Mosienko - Herb Gardiner - Ott Heller

PK1: Bobby Clarke - Punch Broadbent - Herb Gardiner - Börje Salming
PK2: Dave Trottier - Joel Otto - Glen Wesley - Ott Heller




Montreal Canadiens
Head Coach: Harry Sinden
Defense Coach: Jacque Laperrière
Captain: Wayne Gretzky
Assistant: Nicklas Lidstrom
Assistant: Lanny McDonald

ROSTER

#16 Patrik Elias - #99 Wayne Gretzky - #9 Lanny McDonald
#17 Wendel Clark - #18 Denis Savard - #19 Jean Pronovost
#2 Louis Berlinquette - #11 Steve Kasper - #17 Mike Foligno
#14 Geoff Courtnall - #15 Billy Reay - #27 Alex Kovalev
Spares: #10 Barry Pederson , #30 Chris Nilan

#5 Nicklas Lidstrom - #16 Vladimir Konstantinov
#20 Gary Suter - #20 Dallas Smith
#26 Dave Langevin - #34 Al Iafrate
Spares: #26 Mike Milbury

#1 Alec Connell
#35 Jean-Sébastien Giguère

PP1: Wayne Gretzky , Lanny McDonald , Patrick Elias , Nicklas Lidstrom , Gary Suter

PP2: Denis Savard , Jean Pronovost , Al Iafrate , Alex Kovalev

PK1: Steve Kasper , Louis Berlinquette , Nicklas Lidstrom , Dallas Smith

PK2: Wayne Gretzky/Billy Reay, Patrick Elias, Vladimir Konstantinov , Dave Langevin​

Click to read more...

 

[Stoneberg]

Reen, who are the forwards on your second PK unit? I just copy pasted from the roster thread.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Gretzky-Elias , or Reay-Elias when we are up by 2 goals or +.

 

[BenchBrawl]

ReenMachine would like to point out that the Montreal Canadiens have the ATD Art Ross Trophy winner in Wayne Gretzky , and that Montreal's two best players are better than all of the Whaler's players ( therefore Montreal has the best forward and defenseman of the series ).The Montreal Canadiens center line and powerplay are also better.

I would also like to mention I plan on playing line vs line , or 1vs1 2vs3 3vs2 4vs4 depending on Savard's and Nieuwendyk's lines performances.

Another reminder , I'm one of the only GM that drafted a defense specialist coach in Jacque Laperriere , who will be responsible for the defense match-up.

If offense is starting to be a problem on the 2nd line , switching Wendel Clark and Alex Kovalev is an option I have if things start to go wrong.

cheers

 

[vecens24]

This is the kind of defensive lineup that I thought would give Reen issues. A tough, gritty team who can cause them issues. I'll be interested to see arguments both ways.

 

[BenchBrawl]

This is the kind of defensive lineup that I thought would give Reen issues. A tough, gritty team who can cause them issues. I'll be interested to see arguments both ways.

I don't think my team will be intimidated , my defense do have some big hitters and good size , and it's gonna be hard to stop Gretzky's line no matter the style of play , and I do have Clark on my 2nd line , which everybody said was a minus for me , but I kindda like it in this series.Elias is not small , McDonald plays big , Pronovost doesn't shy away from the corners , and then I have Clark.Gretzky and Savard are none-factor physicaly , but are one of the best 1-2 center punch in the entire league.

 

[BraveCanadian]

This is the kind of defensive lineup that I thought would give Reen issues. A tough, gritty team who can cause them issues. I'll be interested to see arguments both ways.

You're right. These are two very different teams.

Reen has to focus on puck possession and getting his big guns away from the forward matchups that Hartford would like to get.

The clash of will to win between Clarke and Gretzky will be epic.

I think Montreal having Lidstrom is a big card here though.. as is Belfour for Hartford.

Gonna be a close one!

 

[MadArcand]

1vs1 2vs3 3vs2 4vs4

Please do that - it's the matchups I'd want myself.

I'll start comparing the teams later today.

 

[MadArcand]

1st lines:

Montreal has the best offensive forward ever. Hartford has the best defensive forward ever. If anyone can shut down or at least severely limit Gretzky, it's Clarke.

Both teams have a tough, goalscoring RW. The difference is that Broadbent is also excellent fighter (and can thus protect Clarke, allowing the latter to agitate the hell out of the Canadiens), and, more importantly, great defensively.

Jackson on the LW is worlds better than Elias, who's not really an ATD 1st liner - while Jackson is top-10. Elias will have to be the defensive conscience of Montreal's lineup, but his defense in ATD sense isn't anything special - compared to Clarke and Broadbent, it might as well not exist at all.

Defensively, Hartford's top line is worlds better than Montreal's. It's also much more physical and tough.

Offensively, Gretzky is the obvious best player, but Montreal's wingers are inferior, courtesy of Jackson being much better than Elias (the RWs are largely a wash). Still, Gretzky's superiority gives Montreal the offensive edge.

I think the defensive and physical edge that my team is obviously greater than the offensive edge that Montreal has, thus...

Overall: slight edge Hartford

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I have no idea why Reen actually wants Gretzky out there against Clarke. Not that Gretzky can totally be shut down ever, but Clarke cam certainly limit him as much as anyone.

 

[MadArcand]

2nd lines:

This time, the lines' composition isn't as similar as with 1st lines. Montreal has playmaking centre and goalscoring wingers again, with quality two-way play from Pronovost and strong physicality from Clark. Hartford OTOH has goalscoring centre, with the well-rounded Mosienko and two-way Parise providing the playmaking.

At centre, once again, Montreal has a superior playmaker. Nieuwendyk is clearly the better goalscorer, but Savard certainly has the overall offensive edge. Defensively, Nieuwendyk is clearly the better player.

At RW, Mosienko is obviously the better offensive player and Pronovost the better defensive player. Where the centers are both accomplished playoff performers, the RWs both played for crappy teams and their playoff accomplishments are similarly lacking.

On LW, Clarke has a small offensive edge on per-game basis, but he's also very injury-prone, and on full season basis his edge not only disappears, but actually reverses. Parise is better defensively, but Clark has extra physicality to elevate him a bit more.

I think my line has a small defensive edge, while Montreal's has the physical edge.

Offensively, Savard leads the pack, but then come Mosienko and Nieuwendyk. The other 3 are fairly comparable.

Overall: slight edge Hartford

 

[MadArcand]

3rd lines:

Both are checking lines, though Berlinguette is not a checker, so Montreal's line has a hole on the LW in that regard - a hole that Mosienko, who will be matched up against Berlinguette, will exploit. While we're at the matchups, McKenzie will be able to make the notoriously short-fused Clark ineffective with his combination of agitation, speed and toughness, as the latter will be reduced to chasing the much faster McKenzie around the ice.

On center, both teams have excellent defensive centers. Both have been solid producers in the regular season, with Otto being the more consistent. But come playoff time, Otto was much, much better. He raised his game a lot - he produced 0.07 PPG more, and had two huge playoff runs. Kasper OTOH decreased his production by 0.06. Also, where Kasper is tiny, Otto is gargantuan. Otto was also dominant face-off man and great leader.

On RW, Foligno has a bit of defensive edge - and that's it. McKenzie was better offensive player, faster, better agitator, more physical, much better playoff performer...

On LW, Berlinguette is just a good-skating goalscorer. Trottier OTOH was lightning-fast, excellent defensively, very good offensively, very physical and also a fighter.

Defensively, my line is better. Offensively, my line is better. Physically, my line is better.

Overall: major edge Hartford

 

[MadArcand]

4th lines:

Neither line is a typical crash-and-bang 4th line, nor a checking line.

On center, Reay provides solid offense and energy for Montreal. For Hartford, Kühnhackl provides offense and size.

On the RW, Kovalev seems like a misfit - a finesse offensive player with questionable hockey sense. The Little Ball of Hate OTOH has the 4th line mentality - very physical and aggressive, gritty with plenty of leadership and easily comparable offensively to Kovalev.

On the LW, Romnes is the clean-playing playmaker to Kühnhackl's and Verbeek's physical, goalscoring styles. He's clearly better offensively than Courtnall, who brings a gritty presence to Montreal's 4th line.

I really don't like Kovalev on 4th line, but overall it seems the lines are quite similar, aside of physical edge to my line.

Overall: even

 

[Dreakmur]

3rd lines:

Both are checking lines, though Berlinguette is not a checker, so Montreal's line has a hole on the LW in that regard - a hole that Mosienko, who will be matched up against Berlinguette, will exploit.

I'm not sure about that. I though Berlinquette was one of the best defensive forwards of his era.

Maybe I'm just giving UH too much credit? I know he was given multiple retro Selkes, so that had to come from somewhere, right?

 

[MadArcand]

I'm not sure about that. I though Berlinquette was one of the best defensive forwards of his era.

Maybe I'm just giving UH too much credit? I know he was given multiple retro Selkes, so that had to come from somewhere, right?

His LOH bio, usually quite liberal with praise, mentions absolutely nothing of his defensive abilities.

 

[Dreakmur]

His LOH bio, usually quite liberal with praise, mentions absolutely nothing of his defensive abilities.

LOH doesn't know everything about every player.

Considering the resources they must have at their disposal, they make a lot of mistakes.

 

[MadArcand]

LOH doesn't know everything about every player.

Considering the resources they must have at their disposal, they make a lot of mistakes.

They sure do, however in absence of any evidence to the contrary by Reen (and in absence of any bio links in his roster)...

 

[BenchBrawl]

Berlinguette a goalscoring LW? I just woke up and need to go but will need to re-adress some things once I got back.

And clarke slowing down Gretzky? You wish.Maybe people need a bit of refreshing about Gretzky even strenght dominance against everybody else including your ''best defensive forward of all-time'' Bobby Clarke.It's allright , I will provide it soon.

Also , Broadbent is so overrated it's sickening.

 

[MadArcand]

Also , Broadbent is so overrated it's sickening.

As opposed to whom? Lanny 'My claim to fame is my mustache' McDonald?

 

[Sturminator]

I don't know anything about Berlinquette outside of Ultimate Hockey, though I haven't researched the Habs of this period thoroughly. I do know, however, that UH is a highly questionable source.

 

[BenchBrawl]

As opposed to whom? Lanny 'My claim to fame is my mustache' McDonald?

At least Lanny played well for more than 1 season.

All of you thinking Gretzky vs Clarke is a close matchup are laughable , Clarke will waste his energy trying to stop an unstoppable force while already having his hand full trying to score against Lidstrom.The Gretzky line will outscore Clarke's line in a major way and it will be up the rest of his line-up to make-up the deficit , which I don't think they will be able to do.

I wonder what Hartford's 1st line offense will be between bad and mediocre while trying to stop Gretzky or trying to score with Lidstrom in their face.

Like I already said with multiple poster agreeing with me , you can't just say ''best offensive = best defensive''.ELITE offense talent will always be superior to any elite defense talent because that,s the way it is , nobody is as good defensively as lemieux or gretzky were offensively.That,s how the game is , defense win in general , but when you reach a certain level offense is unstoppable , no matter what defensive prowess you can show a la Clarke.

 

[BillyShoe1721]

If there is anyone in the history of hockey that can limit Gretzky's effectiveness, it's Bobby Clarke.

 

[BenchBrawl]

says the Flyer fan with one big if.

 

[vecens24]

says the Flyer fan with one big if.

I think that just about anyone you would ask would say that, not just Flyers fans.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

says the Flyer fan with one big if.

What does billy's fan affiliation have to do with anything?