ATD2010 Jim Robson 1st round: Montreal Shamrocks (3) vs. Quebec Nordiques (6)

[VanIslander]

The Jim Robson Division Quarterfinal Round:


Montreal Shamrocks

coach Tommy Gorman

Ted Lindsay (A) - Bobby Clarke (C) - Daniel Alfredsson
Woody Dumart - Elmer Lach (A) - Bill Mosienko
Smokey Harris - Tommy Dunderdale - Harry Oliver
Harry Westwick - Kris Draper - Stan Smyl
Tom Lysiak - Jimmy Gardner

Alexander Ragulin - Cy Wentworth
Allan Stanley - Wally Stanowski
Art Duncan - Bucko McDonald
Steve Duchesne

Billy Smith
Glenn Resch


vs.


Quebec Nordiques

coach Pete Muldoon

Joe Malone - Joe Thornton - Odie Cleghorn
Brian Sutter (C) - Bernie Federko - Jaromir Jagr
Adam Graves - Dick Irvin, Sr. (A) - Pat Verbeek
Johnny Wilson - Rusty Crawford - Mush March
Tiger Williams, Goldie Prodger

Si Griffis (A) - Alexei Kasatonov
František Pospíšil - Neil Colville
Jim Neilson - Barry Beck
Mark Tinordi

Terry Sawchuk
Paddy Moran

​

Click to read more...

 

[VanIslander]

Montreal Shamrocks

PP1: Ted Lindsay - Bobby Clarke - Harry Oliver - Art Duncan - Allan Stanley
PP2: Smokey Harris - Elmer Lach - Bill Mosienko - Daniel Alfredsson - Cy Wentworth

PK1: Woody Dumart - Bobby Clarke - Alexander Ragulin - Cy Wentworth
PK2: Ted Lindsay - Kris Draper - Allan Stanley - Wally Stanowski

vs.

Quebec Nordiques

PP1: Joe Malone - Joe Thornton - Jaromir Jagr - Neil Colville - Alexei Kasatonov
PP2: Adam Graves - Bernie Federko - Pat Verbeek - Si Griffis - František Pospíšil

PK1: Rusty Crawford - Johnny Wilson - Jim Neilson - Alexei Kasatonov
PK2: Mush March - Odie Cleghorn - František Pospíšil - Barry Beck

​

 

[VanIslander]

Each team has a lot of grit. Expect a physical series.

Each team has its number one RWer on its 2nd line and a 2nd/3rd line level guy in the 1st line RW slot.

Each team has a Soviet rearguard on the top pairing. Ragulin may be equivalent to Kasatonov, the former usually overrated and the latter underrated in the ATD.

 

[seventieslord]

Ragulin may be equivalent to Kasatonov, the former usually overrated and the latter underrated in the ATD.

Just curious why you say this, because I'm always interested in what you have to say about Soviets.

 

[VanIslander]

Just curious why you say this, because I'm always interested in what you have to say about Soviets.

They were each a perrenial all-star for the better part of a decade, the biggest difference being level of competition, Kasatonov in the 1980s against the best in the world, Ragulin in the 1960s mostly against lesser opponents.

Actually, I just noticed that each were late 5th round picks this ATD.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

They were each a perrenial all-star for the better part of a decade, the biggest difference being level of competition, Kasatonov in the 1980s against the best in the world, Ragulin in the 1960s mostly against lesser opponents.

Actually, I just noticed that each were late 5th round picks this ATD.

Agreed. I'd take Kasatonov over Ragulin. He has more offensive upside too.

I don't know if I agree with you that Monsienko is better than Alfredsson. At this point, I would probably take Alfredsson's all-round game.

 

[seventieslord]

They were each a perrenial all-star for the better part of a decade, the biggest difference being level of competition, Kasatonov in the 1980s against the best in the world, Ragulin in the 1960s mostly against lesser opponents.

Actually, I just noticed that each were late 5th round picks this ATD.

OK, I never noticed when they were picked... you're absolutely right. Kasatonov could stand to go 20 picks sooner, and Ragulin should not be taken that early.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

This series could really use more discussion.

I want to know whether Montreal plans on sicking Clarke on Jagr or Malone.

 

[raleh]

It almost seems to me that in this series Montreal should swap Lindsay and Dumart.

Let Clarke completely smother the Thornton line and match Lindsay up against Jagr which, I think, is an unfavorable matchup for Jagr.

 

[seventieslord]

It almost seems to me that in this series Montreal should swap Lindsay and Dumart.

Let Clarke completely smother the Thornton line and match Lindsay up against Jagr which, I think, is an unfavorable matchup for Jagr.

It's the playoffs so it shouldn't take much to smother the Thornton line.

Put Grandma at center and Justin Bieber at LW, that should do it.

 

[raleh]

It's the playoffs so it shouldn't take much to smother the Thornton line.

Put Grandma at center and Justin Bieber at LW, that should do it.

I have waited my entire life for a Justin Bieber reference in the ATD.

 

[VanIslander]

It's funny that both teams have centers who assist waaay more than they score goals, passers galore.

The key to stopping Thornton is to stop his wingers, whom rarely have been Heatley type quality.

Stop Joe Malone and Odie Cleghorn and Thornton is neutralized.

That is the heart of the issue with that line.

The second line is something else. Federko has 101 points in 91 playoff games, including leading the playoffs in points a postseason in which his team didn't even make it to the finals! Him and Jagr ought to be by far the biggest thread.

 

[chaosrevolver]

I'll have some comments later tonight.

 

[chaosrevolver]

To start, these will be our forward lines:

Woody Dumart - Bobby Clarke - Daniel Alfredsson
Ted Lindsay - Elmer Lach - Bill Mosienko
Smokey Harris - Tommy Dunderdale - Harry Oliver
Harry Westwick - Kris Draper - Stan Smyl

We will be matching our first line against their first line. Don't except the playoff disappearing act that is Joe Thornton, to do much in this series. In my mind, the guy to look out for on this line is Joe Malone. His blinding speed is definitely a trademark of his, but with two elite defensive forwards and one solid one, I'm not too worried about what he will do. Clarke will be trying to get under his skin throughout the entire series, and as good as Joe is, that may throw his game off even more. Odie doesn't pose any threat at all in my mind. More of a bottom-six player then anything.

As for the matchup of our second line against his, once again I like this matchup. Federko is a brilliant playmaker, and a great playoff performer, and we all know what Jagr can do. However, with Ted Lindsay on Jagr throughout the entire series, Jagr will not only have to defend against a great offensive player, but will also have very little room to work with and will be hit often. With Elmer Lach at center, we have a better second-line center as well, even with Federko's ability in the playoffs. Lach is a fantastic playmaker who was good in his own end, and is one of the best second line centers in the draft. As for the other matchup, I like Mosienko in this matchup. Sutter was not a good skater, and Bill had blinding speed that will cause Brian some problems. However, we know who's more physical of the two and Brian's "never give up" attitude will help him here too.

I like the Nordiques third line as a whole. I'm a pretty big fan of Graves and Irvin, so a whole, not too bad. I wouldn't mind my third line against either his third or fourth line. No question, my 3rd line isn't a traditional one. It has three offensive players who will work pretty well together. Dunderdale also brings an element of physicality to the table. Is my line a defensive liability? Yeah, I would say so, but that's why we will look to match them up with a line that can't provide as much offense.

As for the fourth lines, did Crawford play center? I can only find him playing left wing. Wilson and March are alright, but nothing special. I like my fourth line because it brings work ethic, physicality, a feisty side, defensive presence and a little touch of offense too. I don't see a huge advantage for either side here if Crawford played center, but I can't find any records of him doing so. So maybe you did.

 

[seventieslord]

Chaos, you are wrong about Odie. He is definitely good enough to play on a 2nd line.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[chaosrevolver]

Chaos, you are wrong about Odie. He is definitely good enough to play on a 2nd line.
Posted via Mobile Device

Fair enough. Nevertheless, I don't see him as much of a threat with Dumart on his side and Clarke in the middle.

 

[seventieslord]

Fair enough. Nevertheless, I don't see him as much of a threat with Dumart on his side and Clarke in the middle.

offensively, no, that line is not imposing.

 

[raleh]

offensively, no, that line is not imposing.

Maybe not imposing, but they will outscore the Joes (No Show and Phantom) for sure, and that's all they have to do. Especially since, IMO, the Lach line with Lindsay on it will also outscore the Federko line.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

So Daniel Alfredsson is the guy who will be lining up against Joe Malone, probably the best goal scorer in the series. Will Phantom Joe be able to create enough offense on his own? Clarke/Dumart vs. Thornton/Cleghorn is obviously a huge mismatch in Montreal's favor. I would expect Clarke to definitely cheat to the Malone side of the ice after the faceoff.

And Ted Lindsay will line up against Jagr. I would love to hear Quebec's side of this matchup. Personally, I don't think it's a no-brainer that Lindsay wins. Jagr doesn't bring anything but offense, but he is the best overall offensive player in the series by a fair margin.

Of course, Lindsay has the best offensive center in the series by his side.

 

[raleh]

So Daniel Alfredsson is the guy who will be lining up against Joe Malone, probably the best goal scorer in the series. Will Phantom Joe be able to create enough offense on his own? Clarke/Dumart vs. Thornton/Cleghorn is obviously a huge mismatch in Montreal's favor. I would expect Clarke to definitely cheat to the Malone side of the ice after the faceoff.

And Ted Lindsay will line up against Jagr. I would love to hear Quebec's side of this matchup. Personally, I don't think it's a no-brainer that Lindsay wins. Jagr doesn't bring anything but offense, but he is the best overall offensive player in the series by a fair margin.

Of course, Lindsay has the best offensive center in the series by his side.

And a guy on the right who can pot a few as well.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

And a guy on the right who can pot a few as well.

Quebec definitely has the advantage at right wing. Jagr is the best right wing in the series by a large margin, and I think Cleghorn is the second best right wing by a fair margin.

In fact, I'd probably take Alfredsson over Mosienko at this point, given Alfredsson's better all-round game. Offensively, they are close. Mosienko has better points finishes, but most of them were during the war years and/or playing with the Bentleys.

But Montreal's advantage at left wing and center is pretty overwhelming.

 

[chaosrevolver]

Quebec definitely has the advantage at right wing. Jagr is the best right wing in the series by a large margin, and I think Cleghorn is the second best right wing by a fair margin.

In fact, I'd probably take Alfredsson over Mosienko at this point, given Alfredsson's better all-round game. Offensively, they are close. Mosienko has better points finishes, but most of them were during the war years and/or playing with the Bentleys.

But Montreal's advantage at left wing and center is pretty overwhelming.

I think you can add our defense too that as well. Goalie..I can't argue that Sawchuk is better, but Smith was a clutch goalie so he won't hurt me. I'll try to get some comments in tomorrow..I have a paper to write tonight and test tomorrow so I won't be available tonight.

 

[Leafs Forever]

I am pretty sure threads are getting closed tonigh- voting is tomorrow. (correct me if I'm wrong on that being the case)

 

[seventieslord]

I am pretty sure threads are getting closed tonigh- voting is tomorrow. (correct me if I'm wrong on that being the case)

we don't do that here.

 

[chaosrevolver]

I am pretty sure threads are getting closed tonigh- voting is tomorrow. (correct me if I'm wrong on that being the case)

We don't close series threads. Nevertheless, I'll try to get some comments in tonight, or tomorrow morning.