ATD10 Draft Summary

[VanIslander]

EagleBelfour started doing this a few drafts back and rickmiddleton began a thread back then to encourage its contributions. I post one here for this draft to continue the tradition.

Cut and paste and voice your opinion:

Biggest Steal of the draft
Biggest Reach of the draft
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft
Biggest blunder selection of the draft
A Player finally getting respect in the draft
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft
A player you've discovered in this draft
Most underrated player taken
Most overrated player taken
Favourite line of the draft
Best assembled line of the draft
Worst assembled line of the draft
Favourite pairing of defensemen
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen
Team in the other conference it'd be interesting to meet in the finals
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft

Click to read more...

 

[camperjr]

Biggest Steal of the draft: Paul Coffey(taken real late)
Biggest Reach of the draft: P.J. Axelsson
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft: Accually it was a trade, Doug Risebrough for Vincent Damphousse
Biggest blunder selection of the draft: Jason Spezza
A Player finally getting respect in the draft: Coach Ron Wilson
A player you've discovered in this draft: Dirk Graham
Most underrated player taken: Rick Vaive
Most overrated player taken: Chris Drury
Favourite line of the draft:Bobby Hull (C) - Mike Modano (A) - Jari Kurri
Best assembled line of the draft: Toe Blake (C) - Elmer Lach (A) - Guy Lafleur
Worst assembled line of the draft: Cy Denneny - Peter Forsberg - Teemu Selanne
Favourite pairing of defensemen: Bobby Orr - Harry Howell (A)
Team in the other conference your team would like to meet in the finals: Winnipeg Jets
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals: San Francisco Spiders
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft: Joe Malone Taken 11th overall in ATD1

 

[VanIslander]

Biggest Steal of the draft Tony Esposito 427th overall
Biggest Reach of the draft Frantisek Pospisil 158th overall
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft George Hay (to re-unite with Irvin. Sr.) or Dubbie Bowie (to save the 2nd scoring line)
Biggest blunder selection of the draft Eddie Oatman
A Player finally getting respect in the draft Rusty Crawford
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft Vladislav Tretiak 84th overall
A player you've discovered in this draft Marty Walsh, Barney Stanley
Most underrated player taken Ernie Russell
Most overrated player taken Bert Olmstead
Favourite line of the draft Esa Tikkanen - Doug Gilmour - Bill Mosienko
Best assembled line of the draft Rusty Crawford - Butch Goring - Johnny Pierson
Worst assembled line of the draft Gordon Roberts - Vincent Lecavalier - Eddie Oatman
Favourite pairing of defensemen Al MacInnis - Mike Ramsey
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen Brad McCrimmon - Rob Ramage
Team in the other conference your team would like to meet in the finals Salmon Kings
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals Scouts
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft Bernie Morris might be HHOF worthy but never got the call, probably because he was a convicted draft dodger sentenced to two years on Alcatraz: in the offseason during WWI he was logging in northern B.C. and said he never got the draft notice. The charges were eventually dropped but the stigma stayed with him. Nothing worse back then than being a yellow belly!

 

[shawnmullin]

May I suggest we remove the "team I'd like to meet in the finals" question as there's no reason to insult someone else's team. It's one thing to praise someone for having a great team or to give constructive criticism, but to basically say "boy I know I'd kick this team's butt" is not really constructive.

 

[VanIslander]

May I suggest we remove the "team I'd like to meet in the finals" question as there's no reason to insult someone else's team. It's one thing to praise someone for having a great team or to give constructive criticism, but to basically say "boy I know I'd kick this team's butt" is not really constructive.

huh... the idea was a team you'd like to meet: could be for various reasons! like match-up chemistry of strengths to weaknesses... didn't think it was an overall jdugement of competitiveness

just skip that category then when you do your post

I chose the Salmon Kings as the team I'd like to meet in the finals because it's a team strong on the wings more so than at centre, making for an interesting matchup against my Nighthawks which is built on the centre outward. Beliveau vs. Rocket Richard, Aurele Joliat skating against Brett Hull, my Soviet third pairing vs. their ol' buddy blueliner Lutchenko. It just looked like a match-up I'd like to see.

No insult intended!

 

[shawnmullin]

OK my mistake, I thought the idea was team you think you'd have the best chance against

 

[Diving Pokecheck*]

Biggest Steal of the draft
Biggest Reach of the draft
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft
Biggest blunder selection of the draft
A Player finally getting respect in the draft
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft
A player you've discovered in this draft
Most underrated player taken
Most overrated player taken
Favourite line of the draft
Best assembled line of the draft
Worst assembled line of the draft
Favourite pairing of defensemen
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen
Team in the other conference your team would like to meet in the finals
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft

 

[VanIslander]

Changed from 'would like to meet' to: Team in the other conference it'd be interesting to meet in the finals

That should do it.

 

[kruezer]

Biggest Steal of the draft: Boris Mikhailov at 92
Biggest Reach of the draft: Billy Gilmour at 228
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft: Eagle Belfour taking Petrov
Biggest blunder selection of the draft: PJ Axelsson
A Player finally getting respect in the draft: Ebbie Goodfellow
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft: I can't decide on this one.
A player you've discovered in this draft: He's still undrafted, perhaps will fit on my MLD team if I make one
Most underrated player taken: Alf Smith
Most overrated player taken: Pat Egan
Favourite line of the draft: Gainey - Acton - Armstrong
Best assembled line of the draft: Blake - Lach - Lafleur
Worst assembled line of the draft: Brian/Brent/Duane Sutter , naw I can't pick any.
Favourite pairing of defensemen: Brad Park - Terry Harper
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen: Desjardins - Huddy
Team in the other conference your team would like to meet in the finals: Canadiens
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals: Maroons
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft: That Billy Couture, when he was suspended for life, received just a $100 fine, seemed kinda disproportionate, even for the era.

 

[seventieslord]

Some questions require 3 answers... it's tough to settle on just one.

Biggest Steal of the draft - Easily Esposito at 427.

Ken Wharram at 534. But I don't agree with how he's being used.
Taffy Abel at 511.

Biggest Reach of the draft - Billy Gilmour at 228.

Johnny Peirson at 369.
Jason Spezza at 402.

Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft - California picking up Russell Bowie 556th. After analysis of three lines, they're near the top. With Rod Brind'Amour on the 2nd line instead of the third, this would not be the case.

Biggest blunder selection of the draft - camperjr readily admits that it is Jason Spezza.

A Player finally getting respect in the draft - Rusty Crawford, Cyclone Taylor (although he still went too high), Marty Barry

A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft

There are a few:
-Patrik Elias at 316th after being taken 142nd, 231st and 214th
-Bob Gainey at 132nd after being taken 74th, 69th and 103rd
-Grant Fuhr at 128th after being taken 93rd, 81st, and 69th
-Mike Modano at 230th after being taken 160th, 145th, 155th
-Randy Carlyle at 259th after being taken 183rd, 192nd, 186th

A player you've discovered in this draft

-Bob Bourne. Always knew who he was, never realized he had wheels like this.
-Tony Esposito. While researching him as a backup, it occurred to me just how excellent he was.
-Gus Mortson. Didn't know that much about him before this draft.

Most underrated player taken

-Taffy Abel
-Peter Bondra
-Lester Patrick
-Fleming Mackell

Most overrated player taken

-Jack Stewart
-Scott Stevens
-Rod Langway
-Scott Niedermayer (all of these D-men go ridiculously high for how good they actually are)

Favourite line of the draft Sutter-Sutter-Sutter.

Best assembled line of the draft- my in-depth analysis says it is:

1. Simpson-Messier-Anderson
2. Denneny-Forsberg-Selanne
3. Hadfield-Ratelle-Gilbert
4. Gillies-Dionne-Martinec

This is based in equal parts on the members of the line and the assembly of the players, and is based on the line's excellence in relation to the same line on other depth charts throughout the league. Incidentally, these are all 2nd lines, indicating that 2nd lines are more hit and miss. Out of first lines, I like:

1. Blake-Lach-Lafleur
2. Nighbor-Lalonde-Cournoyer
3. Lindsay-Oates-Makarov
4. Kharlamov-Petrov-Mikhailov

Worst assembled line of the draft

This is based solely on the configuration of the players and not how good they are:

1. Hull-Modano-Kurri
2. Kamensky-Fedorov-Leach
3. Gottselig-Bentley-Bondra
4. Ferguson-Tkaczuk-Smyl

More to come later.

 

[EagleBelfour]

Biggest Steal of the draft Russell Bowie at 556 by ADC.
Biggest Reach of the draft Jason Spezza at 402.
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft ADC taking Russell Bowie for his second line, and sending Brind'Amour on the third. His team look much stronger that way.
Biggest blunder selection of the draft Nothing against Billy Gilmour and VanI second line, but he should of waited to take Billy Gilmour and get a Thompson or Ramsay. He could of took Gilmour at 350-400 and be 100% safe on that pick.
A Player finally getting respect in the draft Harvey Pulford. VanI made his blunder, but Harvey is amazing. He's not out of place at all on a first pairing, especially when a Ray Bourque is there with him, but he's also strong enough that he won't hurt him at all.
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft Jarri Kurri. Out of the top-50.
A player you've discovered in this draft Some old timer I only knew by name: Bobby Rowe/Scotty Davidson/Harry Westwick, but I really discovered how fantastic of a player Norm Ullman was.
Most underrated player taken Harvery Pulford/RusselBowie/Tommy Phillips
Most overrated player taken Pete Mahovlich and Scott Stevens
Favourite line of the draft Frank Mahovlich - Peter Stastny - Mike Bossy. Most fun to watch no doubt.
Best assembled line of the draft Woody Dumart - Guy Carrboneau (C) - Trevor Linden (A)
Worst assembled line of the draft Cy Denneny - Peter Forsberg - Teemu Selanne. I hate Forsberg intensively though, might be unfair
Favourite pairing of defensemen Fetisov - Konstantinov
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen - No one
Team in the other conference it'd be interesting to meet in the finals - Montreal Canadiens
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals - Montreal Maroons
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft - Does someone wanted to select Ted Lindsay at 80 and Don Marcotte at 600?

 

[Murphy]

Biggest Steal of the draft: Tony Esposito, I had no idea he'd fallen that far at the time.
Biggest Reach of the draft: Billy Gilmour
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft: Leo Boivin @190, just because I was ready to take him at 193. I like the Haken Loob pick @ 670 and Art Ross @ 671 as well.
Biggest blunder selection of the draft: New Haven having 13 more selections to go after my team was completed. Thats over 1/2 the team!
A Player finally getting respect in the draft: Didier Pitre, I can remember Nalyd filling in for me in atd #7 and selecting this Pitre guy and thinking pretty damn stout pick, I think it was the 22nd round. Now he went in round 7.
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft: I don't really know.
A player you've discovered in this draft: Eddie Oatman, how could I not?
Most underrated player taken: I don't know
Most overrated player taken: Probably Joel Otto, I just don't think he was all that.
Favourite line of the draft: I like the Leafs Hull-Modano-Kurri line & Kenora's Blake-Lach-Lafleur line.
Best assembled line of the draft: My Sutter line of course
Worst assembled line of the draft: I don't know what it is and its certainly not the worst but the Andreychuk - Lindros -McDonald line just seems off to me.
Favourite pairing of defensemen: The Bison's Jack Stewart & Tim Horton, The Clancy & Horner Duo of the Metropolitans, Icelands Shore & Goodfellow, Blackhawks Robinson & Bouchard.
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen: I don't know
Team in the other conference it'd be interesting to meet in the finals: Stockholm Subbans & Detroit Falcons look a little scary to me.
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals: The teams I mentioned above. I think they're very good and I don't know about the rest of you but I'm looking to win this thing!
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft: Uhhhh, I got nothin, other than alot of conversation about this Eddie Oatman guy, not that funny or dramatic but I learned more about him than any other.

Well I think its funny, and not related to this draft but.......
I can remember having a dream in that I walked through my door and saw a Trail Smoke Eaters jacket in my landing and thought to myself, oh, GBC is over for a visit.

 

[chaosrevolver]

Biggest Steal of the draft - Tony Esposito
Biggest Reach of the draft - Billy Gilmour or Jason Spezza
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft - I actually like the rook (camper) move to bench Spezza by trading for Damphousse. I know I wouldn't have been that savvy in my first draft.
Biggest blunder selection of the draft - Spezza but it was admitted.
A Player finally getting respect in the draft - Cyclone though I still think he's a tad too high
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft - Elias...by me...I never understood why he went in the top-250
A player you've discovered in this draft - More like a coach. I had no idea who Anatoli Tarasov was until I looked up his Russian Coaching Bio
Most underrated player taken - I still think it's Newsy Lalonde though im just a big fan
Most overrated player taken - Martin Brodeur. He was sure overrated by me.
Favourite line of the draft - I like the Mahovlich - Stastny - Bossy line out of pure enjoyment
Best assembled line of the draft - The Sutter's
Worst assembled line of the draft - Roberts - Lecavalier - Oatman
Favourite pairing of defensemen - Im biased. Fetisov - Konstantinov.
Team in the other conference it'd be interesting to meet in the finals - VanIslander because of his Soviet knowledge and understanding of their style and history of their game. Due to the fact I play that type of style and even have Tarasov, I think it'd be interesting. Also Murphy cause apparently he is scared of me And Eagle cause I traded alot with him
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals - GBC and Raleh...opposing views and I think their team might just be the best in the draft.
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft - VanIslander's argument about Oatman I thought was entertaining.

 

[VanIslander]

A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft - VanIslander's argument about Oatman I thought was entertaining.

Gawd, I hope it was more than that. With oldtime players you gotta look beyond the surface and when you scatch & sniff, sometimes it stinks.

To entertain you once more:

There are bona fide Top Stars of Their Era and then there are Average Scrubs. A single stat like career points or even seemingly impressive all-star selection cannot IN ITSELF be a good indication of worth. EVERYTHING must be considered.

Guys like Dunderdale, Hyland, McGee, Bowie were top scorers and widely acclaimed in their time and a major part of team accomplishments and hockey hall of famers.

Judging intangibles like defensive ability means relying on anecdotal evidence, testimony from players and coaches and reports of that time and of hockey historians.

It is harder and takes more considerations to assess the merits of a player, the farther back in history one goes. We have no video whatsoever from pre-WWII players. As such we have to be careful and extensive in our considerations, not throw the baby out with the bathwater in scepticism.

I agree with the following:

The more I read about Oatman the more I understand why he ISN'T in the Hockey Hall of Fame: he was an average player on the top line of a bad team in a good league and (later, a star on good teams in bad leagues, for a loooong time).

The highest league he was in was the PCHA:

How to lie with PCHA All-star selections. (or, Why Oatman is NOT in the Hockey Hall of Fame)
Eddie Oatman a "10-time PCHA all-star" ????????

In a small league of few teams there's a big difference between finishing first or second in scoring and finishing eighth or tenth.

In 1912-13 HHOFer Tom Dunderdale leads all scorers with 24 goals and Oatman is 10th with 9 goals, in such a small league that translates to average performance at best.

In 1913-14 and 1914-15 Oatman indeed had TWO, that's right, TWO great seasons.

In 1915-16 HHOFer Cyclone Taylor and Bernie Morris lead the league in goals (and points) with 22 (35) and 23 (32) respectively while Oatman registered just 11 goals to put him 11th in goals, though 4th in assists (got a high scoring linemate, dunno who helped who more).

In 1916-17 Cyclone Taylor led with 32 goals and Oatman was 9th with 11 goals, though 3rd in assists as previous PCHA top scorer Dunderdale was now playing on his line.

In 1918-19 Cyclone Taylor and Bernie Morris once again led the league with 23 and 22 goals respectively and Oatman got 11 goals for 7th in goals, dropping to a mere 5 assists, not even top-10, now that his HHOF linemate was gone.

In 1919-1920 Tom Dunderdale and fellow HHOFer Frank Foyston led the league with 26 goals each whereas Oatman got only 11 goals, tied for 6th, close to other players who notched ten each. Oatman did (gasp!) lead the league in something, assists, but this is the season he was re-united with league top scorer Tom Dunderdale, this time in Victoria not New West.

In 1920-1921 Frank Foyston once again led the league with 23 goals and Oatman had only 6 goals in just as many games, finishing 6th on his own team's goal scoring! though third in his team's assists with a lowly 11, and even that may be attributed to league leader in points, his linemate Frank Fredrickson, with Dunderdale also doing better in goals, assists and points on the same team.

In 1921-1922 HHOFer Jack Adams led the league with 26 goals and Oatman finished 9th with 9 goals, HHOFers Fredrickson and Dunderdale again outscoring him on the same team.

In 1922-1923 HHOFer Frank Fredrickson led the league with 39 goals and his teammate Oatman finished outside the league's top-10 in scoring with 12 goals and 4 assists, 4th on his own team.

In 1923-24 Oatman did not play in the PCHA.

 

[pitseleh]

Ken Wharram at 534. But I don't agree with how he's being used.

Would you mind elaborating on that? I'm just curious as to what about how he's being used that you don't like.

 

[seventieslord]

Would you mind elaborating on that? I'm just curious as to what about how he's being used that you don't like.

he's on your 3rd line, correct? Wharram would have made a great bargain basement 2nd liner, but I can't see him on a 3rd line... doesn't have that mentality. He's also very small and a lady byng winner.

 

[pitseleh]

he's on your 3rd line, correct? Wharram would have made a great bargain basement 2nd liner, but I can't see him on a 3rd line... doesn't have that mentality. He's also very small and a lady byng winner.

Well, my third line is more of a third scoring line/two-way line than a pure checking line. Everything I've read about him suggests that he was a good two-way player and though that's not great by ATD standards, Burch and Holik bring other attributes like defense and physical play.

 

[papershoes]

Biggest Steal of the draft: tony esposito - i know his playoff record is always a question mark but, tremendous value for where he was picked
Biggest Reach of the draft: jason spezza
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft: reuniting the russian big three of kharlamov - petrov - mikhailov; also, the silver seven line assembled by vanislander
Biggest blunder selection of the draft: jason spezza
A Player finally getting respect in the draft: tommy smith
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft: bob gainey
A player you've discovered in this draft: tod sloan
Most underrated player taken: harvey pulford; tommy smith (a favourite of mine from two mld's ago)
Most overrated player taken: not sure
Favourite line of the draft: mahovlich - stastny - bossy
Best assembled line of the draft: nighbor - lalonde - cournoyer; kharlamov - petrov - mikhailov; cook - boucher - cook; jackson - primeau - sloan
Worst assembled line of the draft: nothing that really jumps out at me
Favourite pairing of defensemen: pilote - salming; robinson - bouchard; orr - howell
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen: desjardins - huddy
Team in the other conference your team would like to meet in the finals: bisons - always want to test myself against the previous champion
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals: maroons - a tough as nails team with tremendous physicality
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft: nothing off the top of my head

 

[Evil Sather]

Biggest Steal of the draft: Paul Coffey.
Biggest Reach of the draft: Billy Gilmour.
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft: Marcel Dionne at 100 on the 2nd line.
Biggest blunder selection of the draft: Tarasov AND Lemaire? Better off with a player.
A Player finally getting respect in the draft: Marty Barry
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft: Marcel Dionne, Mike Gartner
A player you've discovered in this draft: Dan Bain
Most underrated player taken: Frank Fredrickson
Most overrated player taken: Sergei Fedorov.
Favourite line of the draft: Lewis-Barry-Aurie.
Best assembled line of the draft: Lindsay-Oates-Makarov
Worst assembled line of the draft: Shack - Drury - Guerin
Favourite pairing of defensemen: Harvey-Suter
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen: Daneyko-Dupont

A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft: The whole PCHA All-Star breakdown

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Biggest Steal of the draft: Hate to be biased, but Gordie Drillon. 1st line winger in the 17th round, doesn't get much better than that. Non-homer pick is Vyacheslav Starshinov. Tony Esposito beats them both out in a vaccum, but based on the circumstances, I don't rank him as a huge steal.
Biggest Reach of the draft: PJ Axelsson. Again, 3 active players better than him for that role, two of which can play the left side. Odd my biggest steal and reach come from the same guy.
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft: camperjr picking Patrick Roy in the late first round. IMO no better pick for a rookie GM than the best goalie of all-time.
Biggest blunder selection of the draft: VanI's Silver Seven second line. His team could've been incredibly top heavy, and with his great later picks he would've had an excellent squad. Instead, I'm not sure what to think(not necessarily in a bad way)
A Player finally getting respect in the draft: Metro Prystai. Maybe the Yorkton-area bias, but I think he's simply an awesome checking line center and is finally getting some respect around here.
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft: Paul Kariya. I think he's gone higher a couple times, but this is about where he should be.
A player you've discovered in this draft: Eddie Oatman and some other pre-NHLers
Most underrated player taken: I have my own homer answer for this, which should be obvious given he's my favorite player of all-time, but I'll skip it. I'll go with Ulf Samuelsson. In this context, IMO a guy with his skills and abilities is invaluable. Frustration might be the best way to take down a giant, and that's what most of these teams are, giants.
Most overrated player taken: Neil Colville as a defenseman. I like him as a center, but he played a mere 178 games at the position. Dion Phaneuf has a better career value than that(and peak, for that matter).
Favourite line of the draft: Olmstead-Lemieux-Neely. I don't think I need to explain this.
Best assembled line of the draft: Blake-Lach-Lafleur. Hardly can you ever say a line's missing far and away it's most vital part and it's still just as good, with a talented sniper and former Canadien nonetheless.
Worst assembled line of the draft: Kariya-Thornton-Hull, only because Hull will be the only one you'll see come playoff time.
Favourite pairing of defensemen: Gadsby-Lidstrom. What's more to say?
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen: Got nothin' for ya.
Team in the other conference it'd be interesting to meet in the finals: Dallas. I love my powerplay, and they would probably get the most icetime against this team.
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals: Funnily enough, might be Dallas. Hate to meet a team with incredible goaltending in the finals, and Ken Dryden's an incredible goaltender. We can dominate them and still lose in this instance. And the worst part? Even if we Nacy Kerrigan Dryden out of the series, they have Tony O. Winnipeg would be another team I'd like to avoid for similar reasons.
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft: The Malone thing in the one ATD.

Also, interesting fact I sort of discovered. There was actually an all-time draft between ATD1 and All-X2. I guess I was in it(it was over 4 years ago), and surprise surprise I picked Ron Francis. Guess that makes me 4/4 Interesting picks in that one include Mike Gartner in the second round at 26th overall(first rounder in this one) and before Howie Morenz, among others, as well as Milt Schmidt at #114 in round #8.

 

[shawnmullin]

Interesting how my second line gets ripped and praised within like two posts of each other. 'cmon who hates Forsberg?

 

[Jungosi]

Biggest Steal of the draft - Starshinov at 600 some is a huge steal as well as Ed Balfour around 250. Hasek at 26 is also nice.
Biggest Reach of the draft - Gilmour and Spezza , enough has been said about those picks.
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft - Petrov
Biggest blunder selection of the draft - Spezza
A Player finally getting respect in the draft - Frank Boucher and Marty Walsh
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft - Grant Fuhr and Bob Gainey
A player you've discovered in this draft - Tommy Dunderdale
Most underrated player taken - Starshinov
Most overrated player taken - Fuhr
Favourite line of the draft - Blake - Lach - Lafleur (LOVE that speed)
Харламов - Петров - Михайлов (always had a soft spot for the 70's Red Army)
Mahovlich - Stastny - Bossy (Stastny and Bossy are two personal favourites)
Best assembled line of the draft - Nighbor - Lalonde - Cournoyer gets my vote though there are several kickass lines out there (Sutters e.g.)
Worst assembled line of the draft - Ferguson-Tkaczuk-Smyl just a weird combination imo.
Favourite pairing of defensemen - Lidstrom - Gadsby
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen - Several great pairings out there
Team in the other conference it'd be interesting to meet in the finals - Bisons or Falcons
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals - Maroons
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft - The ATD itself it such funny and dramatic story that nothing really sticks out for me.

 

[seventieslord]

Interesting how my second line gets ripped and praised within like two posts of each other. 'cmon who hates Forsberg?

Just to explain myself to those who ripped that line:

I think it's a good line because:

a) You have a puck controller and passer between two guys who can worry about getting open and scoring opportunistic goals,

b) Selanne's softness is offset by Forsberg and Denneny's toughness,

c) Denneny and Selanne's lack of defensive awareness is offset by that of Forsberg,

d) Denneny and Forsberg have enough playoff credibility to carry Selanne, whose playoff record is less than stellar, and

e) I had these guys ranked 2nd, 5th, and 8th, as far as 2nd line LW, C, and RW in the draft were concerned. To have three top-10 players at that spot on the depth chart is impressive - no other first or second line had that. Forsberg is better than about 9 C1s, Denneny is better than about 20 LW1s, and Selanne is better than about 9 RW1s.

 

[MXD]

To finish later.


Biggest Steal of the draft : T. Esposito
Biggest Reach of the draft : T.Harper, Billy Gilmour
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft : Bondra
Biggest blunder selection of the draft : Spezza.
A Player finally getting respect in the draft : Connell (a starter, again! The best of the bottom-tier of goaltenders.)
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft : Eric Desjardins
A player you've discovered in this draft : I finally got enough info to draft Glen Harmon.
Most underrated player taken : Bert Olmstead. Didn't want to insert one of our guys here, but somebody said he was overrated, which kinda makes him underrated. The true underrated guys are the ones that are not picked yet. Otherwise, Starshinov.
Most overrated player taken : Dale Hunter
Favourite line of the draft
Best assembled line of the draft :
Worst assembled line of the draft : Ferguson - Tkazuck - Smyl
Favourite pairing of defensemen :
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen :
Team in the other conference your team would like to meet in the finals :
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals :
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft :

- The 34 game streak without a goal from Glen Harmon.
- The surrealist discussion surrounding Dunderdale (in which the Secrets took no part of it!) and Oatman. For the record, Dunderdale COULD make a 2nd line center, but wouldn't exactly be a great 2nd line center - He's not that far from Duke Keats in my evaluation, but Keats is a middle-of-the-road 2nd C (IMO). This said, his game makes him the perfect 4th C, as least for a team looking for both goals and agitation.
- The Stanowski's antics. I knew about it, it's just that it's always kinda funny to read them again.
-

 

[BM67]

Judging intangibles like defensive ability means relying on anecdotal evidence, testimony from players and coaches and reports of that time and of hockey historians.

Yet you bash Oatman based solely on his statistical performance.

I agree with the following:

The more I read about Oatman the more I understand why he ISN'T in the Hockey Hall of Fame: he was an average player on the top line of a bad team in a good league and (later, a star on good teams in bad leagues, for a loooong time).

You agree with yourself? What does his career as a player/coach in the minor leagues after his major league career have to do with his PCHA play anyway?

The highest league he was in was the PCHA:

So the PCHA was better than the NHA? He played for the 1912 Cup champion Quebec Bulldogs.

How to lie with PCHA All-star selections. (or, Why Oatman is NOT in the Hockey Hall of Fame)
Eddie Oatman a "10-time PCHA all-star" ????????

In a small league of few teams there's a big difference between finishing first or second in scoring and finishing eighth or tenth.

Being on the all-star 2nd team in a three team league doesn't mean all that much, but being one of the top 5 or so players at your position for over a decade is nothing to sneeze at.

In 1912-13 HHOFer Tom Dunderdale leads all scorers with 24 goals and Oatman is 10th with 9 goals, in such a small league that translates to average performance at best.

After playing about a 3rd of the season back on D he still manages to tie for the team scoring lead. 11th in the league in goals, tied for 6th in assists, and tied for 8th in points. Also 3rd in the league in PIM. Fairly average in scoring, but not necessarily in overall play.

In 1913-14 and 1914-15 Oatman indeed had TWO, that's right, TWO great seasons.

Quite the in depth analysis there.

1913-14: 3rd in the league in goals, tied for 8th in assists, tied for 4th in points, led the league in PIM. I note his team had far fewer assists than the other two teams.

1914-15: Tied for 4th in goals, tied for 4th in assists, tied for 3rd in points, 7th in PIM. Highest scorer in the league not to play for Vancouver.

In 1915-16 HHOFer Cyclone Taylor and Bernie Morris lead the league in goals (and points) with 22 (35) and 23 (32) respectively while Oatman registered just 11 goals to put him 11th in goals, though 4th in assists (got a high scoring linemate, dunno who helped who more).

12th in goals, tied for 3rd in assists, tied for 6th in points, tied for 14th in PIM. Note that the PCHA had 4 teams this year.

In 1916-17 Cyclone Taylor led with 32 goals and Oatman was 9th with 11 goals, though 3rd in assists as previous PCHA top scorer Dunderdale was now playing on his line.

In 1916-17 Eddie Oatman played for the 228th Battalion in the NHA.

In 1917-18 tied for 7th in goals, was 3rd in assists, 4th in points, and 15th in PIM.

Dunderdale was also on the line with Oatman in 1915-16 and Oatman topped him in points both years.

In 1918-19 Cyclone Taylor and Bernie Morris once again led the league with 23 and 22 goals respectively and Oatman got 11 goals for 7th in goals, dropping to a mere 5 assists, not even top-10, now that his HHOF linemate was gone.

Tied for 5th in goals, tied for 9th in assists (Not top-10?), 8th in points, 6th in PIM. I note that Oatman led his team his team in goals, assists and points and Dunderdale was still on the team.

In 1919-1920 Tom Dunderdale and fellow HHOFer Frank Foyston led the league with 26 goals each whereas Oatman got only 11 goals, tied for 6th, close to other players who notched ten each. Oatman did (gasp!) lead the league in something, assists, but this is the season he was re-united with league top scorer Tom Dunderdale, this time in Victoria not New West.

Tied for 6th in goals, 1st in assists, tied for 4th in points, and tied for 8th in PIM. Dunderdale was still on the team last year, and New Westminster hadn't had a team since 1913-14. Combined over the last 4 years (16, 18-20) they played together Oatman out pointed Dunderdale 90 to 79.

In 1920-1921 Frank Foyston once again led the league with 23 goals and Oatman had only 6 goals in just as many games, finishing 6th on his own team's goal scoring! though third in his team's assists with a lowly 11, and even that may be attributed to league leader in points, his linemate Frank Fredrickson, with Dunderdale also doing better in goals, assists and points on the same team.

Tied for 14th in goals, tied for 5th in assists, 11th in points, and 15th in PIM. Tied for 2nd on the team in assists, only one off the team lead, in two fewer games as well. "Lowly 11" in deed. (5 years: Oatman: 107, Dunderdale: 99)

In 1921-1922 HHOFer Jack Adams led the league with 26 goals and Oatman finished 9th with 9 goals, HHOFers Fredrickson and Dunderdale again outscoring him on the same team.

10th in goals, tied for 6th in assists, 8th in points, and 10th in PIM. How does finishing 3rd in team scoring to Frederickson (selected at 461) and Dunderdale (508), while missing 5 of 24 games, and probably playing part of the season on D (Moose Johnson retired mid-season) rate as such a disappointment? (6 years: Oatman: 122, Dunderdale: 118)

Oatman also played as an injury fill in the Cup final with Vancouver.

In 1922-1923 HHOFer Frank Fredrickson led the league with 39 goals and his teammate Oatman finished outside the league's top-10 in scoring with 12 goals and 4 assists, 4th on his own team.

Tied for 11th in goals, 9th in assists, 12th in points (one point back of a tie for 10th), and 7th in PIM. (7 years: Oatman: 141, Dunderdale: 120)

In 1923-24 Oatman did not play in the PCHA.

Neither did Dunderdale. Oatman did play in the WCHL with Calgary who lost a Stanley Cup match against the Canadiens.

In conclusion I'd say he rates as above average offensively. His PIM totals and use on D lead me to conclude he is also above average defensively and psychically. His being captain on 5 major league teams would indicate that he would be above average in leadership as well.

If a player that is at least above average at everything is an average at best player and a bad pick...